More Variants - The Allies ride again - No xargun please

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed May 04, 2022 2:22 pm

After our first foray into variant land, xargun and I have embarked on a new game. This time we are using 400 variant points, so this will be a wild game for sure.
we are using a slightly modified version of AndyMacs Variants that were listed as version 1.4 form Andy. I am attaching a zip file of the variant table we used and
of my variant points. Note that I did all the changes so both of us know what the other picked, but we made them privately and then exchanged them, so we did
not know the others picks until we were done. Note that these files are xcel files when unzipped.

I would like to know if you want me to display and discuss my picks, I understand that not everyone can use an excel file. I was thinking of displaying, in text format,
my picks and discuss them, but breaking them up into more manageable size portions. There are a lot of picks and I might compress them a bit.

I see I did not include some important details. This is the updated AndyMac scenario 2 without extra bases and further modified.
I have modified the aircraft trees for the Allies to do upgrades to the next model in line. So B-25B upgrades to B-25C and so on. This does not affect the orginal
replacement rates. This actually puts the Allied aircraft trees into the same position as the Japanese ones.

I will have a lot more to say in further posts. The first turn is done and returned.

Variantsv14a.zip: (39.86 KiB) Downloaded 78 times

400 point game with xargun.zip: (12.87 KiB) Downloaded 82 times

deaniks · Post by **deaniks** » Wed May 04, 2022 4:01 pm

I see the fuel and hi increase I think very nescassary for how massive the game will be now

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed May 04, 2022 4:13 pm

Did you put this in the wrong AAR. I think you sere talking about xarguns variants

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed May 04, 2022 4:29 pm

Reserved for variant point discussion Economics and other
This is my econ and other selections.

Other
I took the withdrawals off, but did it by modifying the data in the editor
I set all ships and all LCUs to not withdraw. I then went through and any
air units that were either withdrawn or disbanded and did not return were set to
not either withdraw or disband. Most of the others I left as they were since many
came back with better aircraft, there are a number that withdraw and return with
a full set of B-29s. I did not want to lose those.

O1 Add 25 PPs per day 2
O2 Add 500 PP to start 1
O4 Withdrawals off - all ships, all LCUs, selected air units 60

Total Other 63

As you can see, I went heavy into aircraft factories. Many of these will upgrade to the next model.
I will need a lot of USN Corsairs to combat his Sams in 1943 and beyond. The P-40Bs are for the beginning of portion of the war.
The will become obsolete after 1942 and be mostly used for the trainers I will need.
Much of the same argument holds for the British/Commonwealth aircraft factories also.

Increasing the shipyards worked well last game so I keep it.
Instead of a size 50 oil in Australia I opted for 250k oil at the start. That will keep the refineries going for a while until I can
get fuel moved there from the USA.

I intend to fight in China, not evacuate, so I bought some supply for them

E1 Add size 30 F4F-3A aircraft Factory #422 x1 engine 5
E1 Add size 30 F4U-1 aircraft factory #429 x1 engine 5
E1 Add size 30 F4U-1 aircraft factory #429 x1 engine 5
E1 Add size 30 SBD-3 aircraft factory #487 x1 engine 5

E1 Add size 30 P-40B aircraft factory #341 x1 engine 5
E1 Add size 30 P-47D2 aircraft Factory #349 x1 engine 5
E1 Add size 30 B-25B aircraft Factory #294 x2 engine 10

E1 Add size 30 Martlet II aircraft factory #51 x1 engine 5
E1 Add size 30 Corasir II aircraft factory #32 x1 engine 5
E1 Add size 30 Corsair II aircraft factory #32 x1 engine 5
E1 Add size 30 Avenger I aircraft factory x1 engine SEE S2 5
E1 Add size 30 Wellington Ic factory #133 x2 engine 10

E5 Increase repair shipyard at Sydney (#955) by 10 at Auckland (#1033) by 20 4
E6 Add 100k supply to China x2 = 200k supply distributed in many bases to not over load them and cause spoilage 1 2

30k Wenchow 25k Changsha 30 Hengyang 30k Kwelin 30k Nanning
7k changteh 28k Kweiyang 20k Kumming

E8 Add 250K oil to Australia 100k Sydney (955) 100k Melbourne (942) 50k Brisbane (913) 1

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed May 04, 2022 4:30 pm

Reserved for variant point discussion- Air

I spent a lot of points here. Mostly to accelerate my air frames
Since I have withdrawals off, I changed 9 fighter and 3 bomber squadrons to temp restricted.
The 4 training groups should help my training efforts.

A1 Accelerate F4U-1 5 months #429 1/43 to 8/42 10
A1 Accelerate F4U-1A 6 months #430 10/43 to 4/43 9
A1 Accelerate F4U-1D 6 months #431 9/44 to 3/44 6
A1 Accelerate F4U-4 6 months #432 6/45 to 12/44 6
A1 Accelerate F6F-3 by 4 months #435 4/43 to 12/42 6.5
A1 Accelerate F8F-1 6 months #444 8/45 to 2/45 6
A1 Accelerate P-47D2 6 months #349 7/43 to 1/43 9
A1 Accelerate P-47D25 6 months #350 3/44 to 9/43 8
A1 Accelerate P-47N 6 months #351 3/45 to 9/44 6
A1 Accelerate P-51H 6 months #356 9/45 to 3/45 6
A1 Accelerate Corsair II by 6 months #032 12/43 to 6/43 9

A2 Delay production end 3 months for P-47D25 #350 6/44 to 9/44 2

A4 Add 100 pilot replacement rate various minor countries in 1941 2
1941 Dutch=30 Chinese=40 CW = 20 Philippines=10

A14 change perm restricted air group to temp restricted x13 #4046 4047 4048 4027 4062 4078 4050 4068 4070 3619 3621 3673 3746 0.5 6.5

A15 Add 50 PBY-5 to pool #466 2
A15 Add 50 P-40B to pool #341 2
A15 Add 50 F4F-3 to pool #423 2
A15 Add 50 F4F-3A to pool #422 2
A15 Add 50 Wellington Ic to pool #133 2

A20 Add 2 size 24 training groups 1 USAAF fighter 1 USN fighter 2
A20 Add 2 size 24 training groups 1 USMC fighter 1 British fighter 2

Total Air 106

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed May 04, 2022 4:30 pm

Reserved for variant point discussion Naval

I did a lot here, There are 21 new Essex CVs, 10 in 1943, 6 in 1944 and 5 in 1945. That will be a lot of flight decks.
The British fleet will be a lot stronger, since none of there ships have to withdraw, the CVs will be here for the entire war or until they get sunk.

the Brits also get 4 very good BBs and 4 Very good CLs to replace some that are almost useless.

The USN gets a pretty good make over also. 9 Baltimore CAs and some extra Brooklyn CLs. I did not choose the Cleveland CLs since I think the Brooklyn CLs are
superior, 15 x 6" guns vs 12. Then I added 20 DF and 20 NF experience to them. Along with Gearing DDs, I should have a very potent surface fleet from the beginning.
The 4 New Jersey BBs in the first 2.5 months will also contribute.

I added 100 fuel capacity to all my 700+ Liberty ships, I have found moving the fuel required was hard, this will make it much easier.
Upgrading the 10 APs makes them APAs. I will have a small but useful Attack Transport fleet from day 1. I can just barely lift an Infantry division for an amphibious assault.

N2 Accelerate ship upgrade for 10 APs 2.5

N3 1945 Add 5 Essex CV with no airgroups or aircraft 1/45 to 9/45 Class #693 5
N3 1944 Add 6 Essex CV with airgroups no aircraft Class #692 18
N4 1943 Add 5 Essex CV with airgroups no aircraft Class #689 20
N4 1943 Add 5 Essex CV with no airgoups or aircraft Class #689 15
N4 1943 Add 1 New Jersey class BB #381 3

N7 Change CVL Hermes (#3045) to Colossus Class (142) 1
N7 Change CVE Long Island (#3107) to Commencement Bay Class (704) 0.5
N7 Change CV Indomitable (#3035) to Indefategable Class (139) 2
N7 Change CV Formidable (#3038) to Indefategable Class (139) 2
N7 Change CV Victorious (#3034) to Indfategable Class (139) 2
N7 Change CV Illustrious (#3036) to Indategable Class (139) 2

N7 Change BB Resolution (#3180) to Vangard Class BB (11) 2
N7 Change BB Ramilles (#3179) to Vangard Class BB (11) 2
N7 Change BB Revenge (#3177) to Vangard Class BB (11) 2
N7 Change BB Royal sovereign (#3178) to Vangard Class BB (11) 2
N7 Change 4 'C' class British CLs to Swiftsure class CL #58 4
N7 Change CV Wasp (#3007) to Essex class CV (689) 2
N7 Change 9 USN CA to Baltimore Class #405 9
N8 Add 20 DF and 20 NF XP to 9 Baltimore CAs 4.5

N7 Change BB Idaho (#3153) to New Jersey Class(381) 2
N7 Change BB New Mexico (#3154) to New Jersey Class (381) 2
N7 Change BB Missippi (#3155) to New Jersey Class(381) 2
N7 Change 4 xAK to ARD class # 2708 1
N7 Change10 xAKs to AR Class #2648 2.5
N7 Change 30 USN DDs to Gearing class Class #540 10
N7 Change 3 Omaha class CL to Brooklyn Class CL #410 3
N2 Accelerate ship upgrade for 4 Brooklyn CLs 2
N8 Add 20 DF and 20 NF XP to 4 Brooklyn CLs 2
N7 Change 20 USN xAKL to PF #764 5

N17 Add 1000 Fuel Capacity to Liberty Cargo ships #2406 2506 more that 60 so max 6 6

Total Naval 138

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed May 04, 2022 4:30 pm

Reserved for variant point discussion Land

I really did not do much for Land units. However the sharp eyed among you will see I increased the rate of replacement of a number of Chinese weapons.

L1 Increase MMG section device #1314 by 25 1
L1 Increase 105 Howitzer device #1312 by 13 0.5
L1 Increase 37mm At gun device #1308 by 12 0.5
L1 Increase British Inf Section devices by 12 0.5
L1 Increase AIF Inf Sections devices by 13 0.5
L1 Increase 25lb gun device #1072 by 13 0.5
L1 Increase Bren Sections devices by 12 0.5
L1 Increase Valentine III tank #1088 by 13 0.5
L1 Increase Vickers Sections #1008 #1017 by 12 0.5
L1 increase 40mm Bofors AA Gun #1061 by 12 0.5
L1 Increase 3.7" AA guns by 13 #1063 0.5

L8 Change III US Corps HQ (#121) from perm restricted to temp restricted 1
L8 Change IX US Corps HQ (#153) from perm restricted to temp restricted 1
L8 Change 3rd Infantry Division (#5614) from perm restricted to temp restricted 3
L8 Change 35th Infantry Division (#6801) from perm restricted to temp restricted 3
L8 Change NA 1st Tank Brigade (#6230) from perm restricted to temp restricted 1
L8 Change 3 USA Tank Bns from perm restricted to temp restricted #6798 6799 6800 1

Total Land 16

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed May 04, 2022 4:31 pm

Reserved for variant point discussion specials and database

The last is a few specials that we agreed on

For S1, I wanted some DDs that had both a troop and cargo space for better FT usage. The Allied APDs only have a troop space.
For S2, this gives me some Avengers to use on the British CVs that are larger and do not withdraw.
For S3 we both wanted some extra transport aircraft so we agreed on this one.
For S4, Xargun wanted some DDs he did not have to build, so we came to this agreement.
The DB changes are a Naval Support package that comes from deaniks AAR. It is intended to mostly help Japan stay afloat.

S1 Japan gets 2 xAKLs Change to Lima class AKE (2105): Malacca Maru [1819]; Ganges Maru [1751]
Allies get DD Mahan class( 16 ships ) added 50 troop and 100 cargo space

S2 japan gets one free 50 Oil and may buy another loc 1487
allies get: Avenger I to be allocated a share of US Avenger production basically makes it available at same time as US
version current assumed production is 35 Base plus 30 from variant pick above and 9 from FAA version - total 74 I want 24 to FAA
Variant and 50 USN but all from USN date of 5/42

S3 Japan gets a replacement rate of 15 for Ki-49-II KAI Helen #796
Allies get an increase of 15 in replacement rate of C-47 #311

S4 Japan gets 2 Akitsuke DDs per month 1942
Allies get 2 fletchers per month 1942

These are all a part of the Naval support pack
DB1 Japan gets 2 free Kongo BBs starting in a TF at Tokyo March 1942
DB2 Japan will get 500,000 Naval Construction points at the start
DB3 Refinery output changed to 10 fuel and 1 supply
DB4 HI changed to 3 supply and 2 HI out

deaniks · Post by **deaniks** » Wed May 04, 2022 4:45 pm

Nomad wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 4:13 pm Did you put this in the wrong AAR. I think you sere talking about xarguns variants

No talking about you specials

T Rav · Post by **T Rav** » Wed May 04, 2022 8:08 pm

Best of luck.

This looks to be quite the busy war for you both!

T Rav

deaniks · Post by **deaniks** » Thu May 05, 2022 2:58 am

I took the withdrawals off, but did it by modifying the data in the editor
I set all ships and all LCUs to not withdraw. I then went through and any
air units that were either withdrawn or disbanded and did not return were set to
not either withdraw or disband. Most of the others I left as they were since many
came back with better aircraft, there are a number that withdraw and return with
a full set of B-29s. I did not want to lose those.

why go through all the trouble of this when you can still manually withdraw units that do withdraw for their better aircraft? Also, did you do the withdraws for Japan as well?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu May 05, 2022 3:51 am

That is the problem, if you do the withdrawals from the menu, then the Japanese units also do not withdraw.
Why would I do the Japanese withdrawals? The ships and lcus were easy to do using witploadae.

deaniks · Post by **deaniks** » Thu May 05, 2022 11:08 am

I think that's the point of withdraws off. Both players benefit just the allies benefit more.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu May 05, 2022 2:10 pm

deaniks wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 11:08 am I think that's the point of withdraws off. Both players benefit just the allies benefit more.

No, the point is I paid the 60 points for withdrawals off, he didn't. Why should he reap the benefit of my point expenditure?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu May 05, 2022 3:19 pm

December 7, 1941

The turn is in and returned. Xargun split KB and bombed both Pearl Harbor and Manilla.

The damage at Pearl Harbor was actually minimal. I lost one BB, probably because it got hit by a torpedo from a mini sub.
Five of the other BBs have fairly extensive damage, but 2 of them are untouched and no other ships took any damage.
He lost 40 Kates to flak and another 3 to ops. He also lost 9 Vals to Flak and 3 ops.

At Manilla I lost a number of ships, many subs. I lost 8 subs outright and there are 4 more that will sink in the next day or two. There are 5 more that are quite damaged but might be able to make it to safety.
In addition a few PTs, and assorted merchant ships were lost or will be lost there.

In an extra ordinary fit of brain fart, I forgot to give Force Z alternate orders and so I lost PoW and Repulse for nothing.

Here are pictures of where KB1 and KB 2 are

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: 411208 KB 2.png (183.94 KiB) Viewed 3278 times

Here are pictures of my total ship losses and air losses. As expected I lost a good number on the ground, but not so many in PH, a lot at Clark Field and Manilla.

: 411208 sunk ships list.png (355.43 KiB) Viewed 3275 times

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu May 05, 2022 3:36 pm

December 7, 1943 continued

Xargun landed troops at Aparri, Vigan, and Laoag. There were paratroop drops at all sites and an amphibious landing at Vigan.
So with paradrops he took all the empty bases with shock attacks.
Other than that, nothing out of the ordinary occured.

My plan is to make this game different than last game. For one thing I plan on fighting in China. I bought some extra supply and a number of
heavy weapons. Extra MMgs, AT guns, 105 Howitzers will go along way toward making the Chinese a better defender of freedom.

My pilot training program has been revamped, I realized late in the last game that I was not doing things right and this game I have many more
possibilities. First is the fighter training squadrons I purchased. They are size 24, but they can train 72 pilots at a time and they are faster in training
than a normal squadron. In addition, with the withdrawals off, I have a number of squadrons that would normally disband permanently, they will stay
the duration and a good number of them will be training.

Since he split KB, I will be moving my three starting CVs to Auckland or Sydney to join up into a force that can stand up to 1/2 of KB. I have enough fighters
and SBDs to fill out my air groups so I will contest the South Pacific.

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Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu May 05, 2022 5:23 pm

December 8, 1943

The second day of the war went about as expected and normal with the added twist of having KB2 in the PI.
KB2 is just East of Leyte now. KB1 has retired to the NW and is now 11 hexes from Pearl Harbor.
KB2 did sink some of the ships trying to escape from Manila and other nearby ports. It can not be helped, I have
nothing to deter him. I did have 4 B-17Ds attack from Cagayan , but they were driven off by 29 Zeros, they took no losses,
but have damaged aircraft now. Interesting that I started with no damaged aircraft, only 4 flew a mission, but now I have 7
damaged aircraft.

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T Rav · Post by **T Rav** » Thu May 05, 2022 6:10 pm

As before, I will be on this AAR frequently. I appreciate that you do it.

The same is true for Xargun's, so no tips either way. Not that either one of you need my advice!

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri May 06, 2022 2:28 am

December 9, 1941

Not much happened today.

The last 4 British MTBs were sunk at San Fernando, they were out of fuel, not much of a fight.

He landed and took Nauru Island, Ocean Island, and Tarawa.

Paratroops landed and took Cabanatuan on Luzon

My B-17s flew Naval Strike missions and hit one xAK with a single 500 lb bomb.
CR shows 2 destroyed non combat squads

He flew a few other attacks against Chinese troops, no real damage

The scariest thing is that KB1 disappeared. I have no idea if he went East towards the Weat Coast, or if my
Naval search just did not find it.

Also, KB2 has disappeared. Not sure where it went.

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Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri May 06, 2022 4:41 pm

December 10, 1941

Both KB1 and KB2 have returned to sighted status. KB1 is about 15 Hexes East of Midway, she is moving slow, probably
refueled last turn, I have seen his AOs in that area.

KB2 is in the Celebes Sea. Some Kates and Vals sank two medium sized xAKs. near Tandjoengselor
See picture. I have a good SCTF as shown. It is comprised of CLs Marblehead and Boise. CL Marblehead was changed to a Brooklyn class CL.
Both have been upgraded to 4/42 models so they have SS Radar. And both have the +20 DF and NF experience. There is also 4 Gearing class DDs with them.
The TF is led by VADM Fenwick who has excellent Naval and Aggressiveness ratings. The path it will take is shown. Not shown is a Dutch SCTF that
will move a full speed to a point 4 hexes West of KB2 and the retire to Tarakan. That is all the range they have.

Other than that, DD Electra hit a sub just of Batavia with a listed direct hit and some damage hits. She will pursue and see if she can
find the sub again. I have put a Dutch float plane unit on night naval search of the area.

DD Scout was lost to aerial attack in the PI. She was trying to refuel at Iba and lost out.

Xargun is bombing various places, but surprisingly not Manilla or Clark Field. Not sure why not.

Xargun is continuing to take bases on Luzon with small paratroop drops. Today it was Mauban and Atimonan.
Not really a bother, the PI is lost anyway and Maybe I can take out some of the small units he is dropping.

He failed to take Hong Kong today. A DA cost him some troops and a good number of disablements.

I have started to send out troops to Pago Pago, Suva, Nadi, and Noumea. I am limited by PPs and transports.

One of the things I hate about the first few weeks of a new game is the slow movement of everything.

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