I was sent this WARNING.....

[seille]

It is not sure the savegame itself was modified, it might have been a exploit. For me that doesn´t really matter to be honest.

I actually look at the savegames to find the point the game was "manipulated" loading the turns in 10-steps. And i just found air units climbing
30XP within 10 turns. Looks like an exploit to me, but not fully sure. The problem is there are not only the air units, no there are many ground units which look
modified,too.
I´ll load more turns tomorrow into tracker and then send my findings to MichaelM, so he can hopefully fix the problem.

[sdhundt]

UGHH, it keeps getting worse regarding ROY....Here is a German forum where he was uncovered, here is the link.....http://www.si-games.com/forums/showthre ... 2.....Very sad on what many thought was a very, very elite top player...How the mighty have fallen...At least I now know I wasn't as bad a player as I thought. ROY will NEVER get a game again...At least not here, very sad but at least he has been exposed.

[obvert]

Well, if he wants to play again, and can do this with computers and code, it shouldn't be hard for him to just get another email and sign up as someone new, right?

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: sdhundt

**warning

if you are interessed i could tell you that **** is cheating. i have prove of it!!!!
he is increasing pilot exp an troop xp and if he need
he change TOE
it seems like he is hacking the savefiles like he need it**


This was sent to me on a different forum...I deleted the accused players name.....Could this be done by a very tech. smart player ? Just a word regarding the game against the accused player.......My pilot exp. is rising alarmingly slow and his pilots eat ALL my guys for breakfast but since I have nothing to compare it with I thought it wasn't a problem.....But recently I have started a game as the Japs.....SCN#2, just like the other game.....In that game my Jap. pilots don't come anywhere close to the domination that the first game has as the Jps.......I know this is almost imposable to figure out if cheating is going on....I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to my opponent....He is a VERY good player and I wouldn't find the game any fun if you had to change the Pilot exp. and other things just to win. Any comments would be of great interest to me, Thanks.

When it comes to security - there are no absolutes. So we cannot say the game is 100% crack proof. However, compared to WITP stock ... the WITP/AE security system is almost infinitely better.

Since part of a security system's ability to function is based on how it works being a secret - I will not further describe how WITP/AE security works. But I can say that I do not think any of us who worked on the project could successfully edit the save file in a meaningful way and we KNOW how the security works. Yes, you can see data in there ... but it is scrambled in multiple dimensions ...

General advice is ... if you don't trust your opponent ... don't play the game with them ... and this is true for any game .. poker ... monopoly ... chess ... Axis and Allies ... even little ole WITP/AE.

If you must play against people you don't know ... play a few shorter scenarios first to primarily make sure your playing styles and communication styles are compatible ... as well as trying to develop a mutual sense of trust ... BEFORE you dive in to a >1 year campaign game ...

... security is like a wall .... we can make it has high as our stake holders want us to make us ... but we cannot really make it infinitely high ... we made the WITP/AE wall much, much, much higher than the WITP stock wall ... but it is not infinitely high ...

[witp1951]

Is this exploit/file manipulation legitimate? I have been playing him and I am retreating in China as Japan in Feb 1942. Units I thought I had crushed in Malaya are showing up in Singapore at full strength. I thought I was playing an elite opponent. Is there someone at Matrix who can check my savefile?

[LoBaron]

What sense or fun does it have to manipulate a game like this? Some people have serious ethical issues.

I really feel bad for his opponents. WitP AE is something we spend much time with, to be cheated in such a way is
disgusting.

[LoBaron]

ORIGINAL: witp1951

Is this exploit/file manipulation legitimate? I have been playing him and I am retreating in China as Japan in Feb 1942. Units I thought I had crushed in Malaya are showing up in Singapore at full strength. I thought I was playing an elite opponent. Is there someone at Matrix who can check my savefile?

Just read the last few pages of the German AAR, he claims that he only "manipulated the game in ways possible for every other player", although personally I have serious doubts
and independent of the answer it does not make such acitons legit in any way.

There is a small chance that he found an in-game way to perform all those manipulations. If this is the case it is something he should have reported instead of exploited.
You could post in the tech forum with savegame attached and ask for a quick analysis, maybe it helps in finding the leak.

[Commander Stormwolf]

only an idiot would cheat at a game where there is no money involved [:)]

.. and even then.. don't recommend it

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


only an idiot would cheat at a game where there is no money involved [:)]

.. and even then.. don't recommend it

Words of wisdom right here.

[witp1951]

My opponent just emailed me claiming he has not cheated but made use of the game engine. He has withdrawn from our game.

Edited: I have most of the save files if anyone at Matrix is interested they can PM me.

[crsutton]

Cheat or exploit? Does not really matter? This is a sick puppy here. He has problems that go beyond the scope of this forum. We all have our slick tricks but there has to be a point where you put on the stops. I feel sorry for him in a way because it is obvious from his post that he really has no comprehension of doing anything wrong. So be it. I suspect that there are many aspects of his life that are not aligned with the planets.

[Smeulders]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: sdhundt

**warning

if you are interessed i could tell you that **** is cheating. i have prove of it!!!!
he is increasing pilot exp an troop xp and if he need
he change TOE
it seems like he is hacking the savefiles like he need it**


This was sent to me on a different forum...I deleted the accused players name.....Could this be done by a very tech. smart player ? Just a word regarding the game against the accused player.......My pilot exp. is rising alarmingly slow and his pilots eat ALL my guys for breakfast but since I have nothing to compare it with I thought it wasn't a problem.....But recently I have started a game as the Japs.....SCN#2, just like the other game.....In that game my Jap. pilots don't come anywhere close to the domination that the first game has as the Jps.......I know this is almost imposable to figure out if cheating is going on....I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to my opponent....He is a VERY good player and I wouldn't find the game any fun if you had to change the Pilot exp. and other things just to win. Any comments would be of great interest to me, Thanks.

When it comes to security - there are no absolutes. So we cannot say the game is 100% crack proof. However, compared to WITP stock ... the WITP/AE security system is almost infinitely better.

Since part of a security system's ability to function is based on how it works being a secret - I will not further describe how WITP/AE security works. But I can say that I do not think any of us who worked on the project could successfully edit the save file in a meaningful way and we KNOW how the security works. Yes, you can see data in there ... but it is scrambled in multiple dimensions ...

General advice is ... if you don't trust your opponent ... don't play the game with them ... and this is true for any game .. poker ... monopoly ... chess ... Axis and Allies ... even little ole WITP/AE.

If you must play against people you don't know ... play a few shorter scenarios first to primarily make sure your playing styles and communication styles are compatible ... as well as trying to develop a mutual sense of trust ... BEFORE you dive in to a >1 year campaign game ...

... security is like a wall .... we can make it has high as our stake holders want us to make us ... but we cannot really make it infinitely high ... we made the WITP/AE wall much, much, much higher than the WITP stock wall ... but it is not infinitely high ...

I don't think anyone will be pointing fingers at the devs over this. Everyone here should be smart enough to understand that what you say is true, there is no way to make a fool proof protection. Many of us even post about our games openly, giving away various degrees of information that we know our opponents could read if they wanted to. I've heard about players exchanging passwords because sometimes one forgets to hit "end turn" on his save ... The save system certainly isn't the weakest link for many people here.

Actually we should be surprised about the limited number of cheaters we hear about. Either they're good at hiding it or we're a pretty lucky bunch.

[jetjockey]

ORIGINAL: witp1951

My opponent just emailed me claiming he has not cheated but made use of the game engine. He has withdrawn from our game.

Edited: I have most of the save files if anyone at Matrix is interested they can PM me.

If your former opponent had been legitimately exploiting the game engine, I am certain he would just love to share with us his wisdom and superior insight. How else can he expect to clear his good name. Otherwise, I would believe that it will be difficult to find another opponent…

[witp1951]

ORIGINAL: jetjockey
If your former opponent had been legitimately exploiting the game engine, I am certain he would just love to share with us his wisdom and superior insight. How else can he expect to clear his good name. Otherwise, I would believe that it will be difficult to find another opponent…

I responded to him with that same request. Have not heard back.

Hell, this is just a game!

[nate25]

Kinda disconcerting for a newb trying to work up for PBEM.

I know a lot of you out there are IT types or very knowledgeable about computers. I'm what I'd call "illiterate".

Is there anything besides trusting your opp that can be done? Sort of a "trust but verify" thing?

Nate

[dorjun driver]

Apparently not. More's the pity.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: nate25

Kinda disconcerting for a newb trying to work up for PBEM.

I know a lot of you out there are IT types or very knowledgeable about computers. I'm what I'd call "illiterate".

Is there anything besides trusting your opp that can be done? Sort of a "trust but verify" thing?

Nate

I have the impression that, if he did break the save file open, it was a really big deal to do so. Sort of like banks do get robbed, but they are still in business and people still keep money there. I'm not worried about it.

The plain fact is that you must have a good opponent who has integrity or else your game is going to stink regardless of whether it is possible to get into the save file or not. And if it were easy then the information about how would be here on the forum already so that everybody would be forewarned. Don't worry about this potential hack, spend the mental energy on developing relationships with good opponents.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: nate25

Kinda disconcerting for a newb trying to work up for PBEM.

I know a lot of you out there are IT types or very knowledgeable about computers. I'm what I'd call "illiterate".

Is there anything besides trusting your opp that can be done? Sort of a "trust but verify" thing?

Nate

I have been gaming for 40 years. Trust and respect have always been the key. This is not new. Don't worry. This is a pretty good crowd and you are at very little risk here.

[nate25]

I agree, "trust is a must".

I supervise for a living and you can become just a tad shaded towards people if you let yourself. Then when I read this I thought, "Here, too?"

But, it's one individual (alledgedly). I've got nothing but help in reply to my questions on this forum so my overall impression won't change.

Nate

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: jetjockey

ORIGINAL: witp1951

My opponent just emailed me claiming he has not cheated but made use of the game engine. He has withdrawn from our game.

Edited: I have most of the save files if anyone at Matrix is interested they can PM me.

If your former opponent had been legitimately exploiting the game engine, I am certain he would just love to share with us his wisdom and superior insight. How else can he expect to clear his good name. Otherwise, I would believe that it will be difficult to find another opponent…

Quite a good bugfinder, this guy
- Supplies in masses where they shouldn't be
- Training units withing days to 99-99 - but only those units needed, not everyone
- 90XP Pilots for everyone

To find one loophole is difficult enough, but several? [:D]



BTW: He wipped my arse once as well, but was propably able to do so without any "loopholes" because it was my first pbem.