Rushing the N1K1 a mistake?

[moose1999]

I fear I have just made a grave mistake in my first game as the Japanese.

I've decided to rush the development of the N1K1 George and have devoted several factories to the cause, expanding them significantly.
I'll be producing 120-40 research points a month.
I've also sped up development of the Ha-45 engine, of course.

But then I checked my fighter squadrons and got a big shock...!
None my fighter squadrons have the N1K1 in their update list.
I'm playing with PDU on, so I thought I would be able to choose freely (inside the branches, at least) between updates for my planes.
According to WITP-Tracker, only 7 squadrons are able to use the N1K1 and they don't start appearing until late 43.

Is what I fear really true?
Is it a complete waste to rush the development of the N1K1?
I'll have to start over if this is the case...

[Rob Brennan UK]

Odd , with PDU on , all Japanese Navy fighters (land based) should be upgradeable to Georges imo. Maybe your just looking at army squadrons ?

The fixed 7 sqds would be with PDU off afaik. PDU should overwrite the base settings for upgrades.

just my 2p , maybe someone who knows the editor can answer better.

[JuanG]

Unless it was changed in the last patch, only non-carrier capable units can upgrade to non-carrier capable planes. So this means the A6M3 units can update to N1K1-J, but not the A6M2, A6M3a, etc. units.

I have no idea if this was revised in the last patch, but I do remember it cropping up in another thread a month ago or so.

Juan

PS - Just checked with the new patch. Same as ever.

[moose1999]

Well, as far as I can see only one of the squadrons I start with (Yokosuka Ku S-1) is able to upgrade to the A6M3, which I suppose would then lead to the N1K1.
Other than that I see only one A6M3 squadron coming down the line, in May 42, which would then also be able to upgrade the the N1K1.
And in late 43 and 44 four squadrons equipped with N1K1s show up.

If it's true that I'll only be able to update 2 squadrons to N1K1s I see absolutely no point in hurrying the development of the plane.
And it makes the N1K1 a lot less interesting in general.
A shame. It's a great plane.

And it looks like I'm in for a restart... [:(]
Japanese production is hard.

EDIT: Oh, and some of these units are restricted. Can't move off the home islands...
Looks like I'll have to look elsewhere for my wunderwaffen...!

[Dora09]

Yeah these are things that have been bothering me about AE.

It is rediculous that you can not upgrade land based A6M2 to A6M3 (accept for two groups one of which can't leave Japan).
I built D4Y1-C to replace C5Ms but lo an behold I cant! Why have the D4Y1 as an option if you can't use it??

Now the N1K1, this is annoying and restricts the options of playing Japan.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: briny_norman

Well, as far as I can see only one of the squadrons I start with (Yokosuka Ku S-1) is able to upgrade to the A6M3, which I suppose would then lead to the N1K1.
Other than that I see only one A6M3 squadron coming down the line, in May 42, which would then also be able to upgrade the the N1K1.
And in late 43 and 44 four squadrons equipped with N1K1s show up.

If it's true that I'll only be able to update 2 squadrons to N1K1s I see absolutely no point in hurrying the development of the plane.
And it makes the N1K1 a lot less interesting in general.
A shame. It's a great plane.

And it looks like I'm in for a restart... [:(]
Japanese production is hard.

EDIT: Oh, and some of these units are restricted. Can't move off the home islands...
Looks like I'll have to look elsewhere for my wunderwaffen...!

No, there are MANY more IJN units coming that can use the N1K1. You are only examining your starting units. Use tracker to see all the future units that are coming down the pipeline. 30 - 40% of the IJN air units are land based. I can't tell you if this will be effective or not, but it sounds interesting. Pursue it and then share your finding here. I would be interested to read.

Good Luck!

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Dora09

Yeah these are things that have been bothering me about AE.

It is rediculous that you can not upgrade land based A6M2 to A6M3 (accept for two groups one of which can't leave Japan).
I built D4Y1-C to replace C5Ms but lo an behold I cant! Why have the D4Y1 as an option if you can't use it??

Now the N1K1, this is annoying and restricts the options of playing Japan.

Not sure about that. I upgrade most/all of my IJN land units to A6M3 as fast as I can and then to A6M3a once available along with the CV units. If you can't with the PDU on, not sure why.

[moose1999]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
No, there are MANY more IJN units coming that can use the N1K1. You are only examining your starting units. Use tracker to see all the future units that are coming down the pipeline. 30 - 40% of the IJN air units are land based. I can't tell you if this will be effective or not, but it sounds interesting. Pursue it and then share your finding here. I would be interested to read.

Good Luck!

Well, I used Tracker, but I'm actually not quite sure how to tell which squadrons can upgrade to the N1K1.
I assumed that they had to have the A6M3 as their PDU OFF upgrade and only two squadrons have that.
There's a bunch of Claudes coming too, of course, but they're mostly carrier-based and my understanding is that only land-based squadrons can upgrade to the N1K1.
So I still don't see more than 3 upgradeable squadrons in all plus four squadrons arriving with N1K1s pretty late in the game.
I might be missing something, but that's how I see it.

But I've solved the problem.
I went to the editor and made the N1K1 carrier capable.
Plenty of squadrons to upgrade now... [:)]
And I made a house rule of not using them on carriers, of course. [;)]
Though I imagine I might be tempted at some point...

[Swenslim]

Tojo is better !!! Build Tojo. And Franks

[Elladan]

Not sure about that. I upgrade most/all of my IJN land units to A6M3 as fast as I can and then to A6M3a once available along with the CV units. If you can't with the PDU on, not sure why.

Now how have you managed to do that? Inquiring minds want to know.

[moose1999]

I don't know, Swenslim...
Comparing the George to the 43 version Tojo, I don't see the Tojo coming out on top in many places.
It's a little faster and does have significantly better climb rate, but otherwise George is equal or better (assuming 4x20mm guns and 2x40mm has roughly the same firepower).
And my big problem with the Tojo is that it lacks armor.
And that's a BIG minus for me.
The Tojo doesn't get armor until 44/3... And then it's too late.

[Elladan]

It's comparing apples with oranges. Tojo is an IJA plane, George is IJN's. As for the performance I would say George is very slightly better, but then I would choose Jack over George.

[xj900uk]

George is an IJN plane primarily designed for Japanese carriers.  Whilst I accept there were very few cases of it operating from a flight deck in 44-45 that doesn't hide the fact that it was intended as such, and if you can't assign it to carrier capable squadrons then it does seem to be a bit of a fault.
Having said that, even when the George was available,  the IJN kept on soldering on with the tried & trusted Zero right thorugh to the end of '44,  even now the design was hopelessly obsolete and the George was clearly better, faster and heavier armoured.  Obviously they just didn't want to abandon the formula that had brought them so much success in '41/'42...

[tanjman]

Under the IJNAF designation system the 'N' in N1K1-J George means that this was originally a float fighter (the N1K1 Rex), the '-J' means that is has been adapted to land based use, a '-A' would have meant it was adapted to carrier based use.

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

George is an IJN plane primarily designed for Japanese carriers.  Whilst I accept there were very few cases of it operating from a flight deck in 44-45 that doesn't hide the fact that it was intended as such, and if you can't assign it to carrier capable squadrons then it does seem to be a bit of a fault.
Having said that, even when the George was available,  the IJN kept on soldering on with the tried & trusted Zero right thorugh to the end of '44,  even now the design was hopelessly obsolete and the George was clearly better, faster and heavier armoured.  Obviously they just didn't want to abandon the formula that had brought them so much success in '41/'42...

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: Elladan

It's comparing apples with oranges. Tojo is an IJA plane, George is IJN's. As for the performance I would say George is very slightly better, but then I would choose Jack over George.

Exactly.
The last patch moves up a bit J2M2 production (at least in my game which is scen. 2).
Find out & compare whether Jack is better solution than George.
You've got Jack faster -- two months before George (and see its upgrade, also faster than N1K2), its' speed & mvr are slightly better.

I did make a mistake with Ki-61 Ia, though.
Available in 11.42 but didn't notice I have to wait for the engine till '43 (Kawasaki HA-60).

[Elladan]

As for Tony I think I will abandon the project and concentrate on Tojo as a primary IJAAF mid-war fighter.

[viberpol]

ORIGINAL: Elladan

As for Tony I think I will abandon the project and concentrate on Tojo as a primary IJAAF mid-war fighter.

I was looking for a fighter with armour... found Tony. Did not pay attention to the engine.
Hopefully I'll manage to advance R&D of the engine.
BTW I find it quite easy to bring up the R&D engines. Somehow in my game I have accelerated the Aichi engine (by 3 months now), and every now & then I receive the info of accelerating late war constructions...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: briny_norman

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
No, there are MANY more IJN units coming that can use the N1K1. You are only examining your starting units. Use tracker to see all the future units that are coming down the pipeline. 30 - 40% of the IJN air units are land based. I can't tell you if this will be effective or not, but it sounds interesting. Pursue it and then share your finding here. I would be interested to read.

Good Luck!

Well, I used Tracker, but I'm actually not quite sure how to tell which squadrons can upgrade to the N1K1.
I assumed that they had to have the A6M3 as their PDU OFF upgrade and only two squadrons have that.
There's a bunch of Claudes coming too, of course, but they're mostly carrier-based and my understanding is that only land-based squadrons can upgrade to the N1K1.
So I still don't see more than 3 upgradeable squadrons in all plus four squadrons arriving with N1K1s pretty late in the game.
I might be missing something, but that's how I see it.

But I've solved the problem.
I went to the editor and made the N1K1 carrier capable.
Plenty of squadrons to upgrade now... [:)]
And I made a house rule of not using them on carriers, of course. [;)]
Though I imagine I might be tempted at some point...

I counted 72 air groups in tracker that can upgade to N1K1 with PDU on.

[moose1999]

Where/how on earth did you find them?!
I'm playing scenario 2 and I see only 3!
Could you name a handful so I can check?

[PaxMondo]

All of the IJN (not IJA) non-carrier units with PDU on should be able to upgrade eventually to the N1K1.  Most of these will be coming in the future.
 









[font=arial]Chitose Ku S-1 Det[/font]
[font=arial]A5M4 Claude[/font]
[font=arial]Maloelap[/font]
[font=arial]24th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Sasebo Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A5M4 Claude[/font]
[font=arial]Nagasaki/Sasebo[/font]
[font=arial]12th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Ominato Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A5M4 Claude[/font]
[font=arial]Ominato[/font]
[font=arial]12th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Kawai Det [/font]
[font=arial]A5M4 Claude[/font]
[font=arial]Peleliu[/font]
[font=arial]21st Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Chitose Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A5M4 Claude[/font]
[font=arial]Roi-Namur[/font]
[font=arial]24th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Yamada Det S-2[/font]
[font=arial]A5M4 Claude[/font]
[font=arial]Soc Trang[/font]
[font=arial]22nd Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Okamoto Det [/font]
[font=arial]A5M4 Claude[/font]
[font=arial]Truk[/font]
[font=arial]24th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Yokosuka Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A5M4 Claude[/font]
[font=arial]Yokohama/Yokosuka[/font]
[font=arial]12th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]721 Ku S-1 [/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Sen Baku[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1021[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]501 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Sen Baku[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 765[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]









[font=arial]6th Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 104[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]312 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1144[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Tsukuba Ku K-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1150[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Yatabe Ku K-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1159[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Motoyama Ku K-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1167[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Tsukuba Ku K-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1167[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Omura Ku K-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1169[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Motoyama Ku K-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1170[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Genzan Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 118[/font]
[font=arial]22nd Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]381 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1197[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Fleet[/font]









[font=arial]281 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 438[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]261 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 545[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]261 Ku S-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 549[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]331 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 572[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]263 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 649[/font]
[font=arial]1st Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]254 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 659[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]381 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 669[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]265 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 671[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]301 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 691[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]









[font=arial]263 Ku S-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 696[/font]
[font=arial]1st Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]265 Ku S-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 702[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]341 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 729[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]345 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 749[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]343 Ku S-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 750[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]343 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 757[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]221 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 767[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]345 Ku S-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 769[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]256 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 796[/font]
[font=arial]11th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]203 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 802[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]302 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 810[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]331 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 812[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]203 Ku S-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 821[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]S-407 Hikotai [/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 841[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Yamada Det S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Soc Trang[/font]
[font=arial]22nd Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]3rd Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Takao[/font]
[font=arial]23rd Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]3rd Ku S-1 Det A[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Takao[/font]
[font=arial]23rd Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]3rd Ku S-1 Det B[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Takao[/font]
[font=arial]23rd Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Tainan Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Takao[/font]
[font=arial]23rd Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Tainan Ku S-1 Det A[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Takao[/font]
[font=arial]23rd Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Tainan Ku S-1 Det B[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Takao[/font]
[font=arial]23rd Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Kochi Ku K-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-K Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1153[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Oi Ku K-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-K Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1164[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Omura Ku K-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-K Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1167[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]381 Ku K-3[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-K Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1193[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Yokohama Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-N Rufe[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 112[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]14th Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-N Rufe[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 116[/font]
[font=arial]21st Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]Kashima Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-N Rufe[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1173[/font]
[font=arial]10th Air Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]5th Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-N Rufe[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 138[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]934 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-N Rufe[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 430[/font]
[font=arial]3rd Fleet[/font]

[font=arial]Sasebo Ku S-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M2-N Rufe[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 831[/font]
[font=arial]12th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]2nd Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M3 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 191[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]253 Ku S-2[/font]
[font=arial]A6M3a Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 639[/font]
[font=arial]11th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]210 Ku S-1[/font]
[font=arial]A6M5 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1105[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]S-310 Hikotai [/font]
[font=arial]A6M5 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 1145[/font]
[font=arial]13th Air Flotilla[/font]

[font=arial]S-306 Hikotai[/font]
[font=arial]A6M5 Zero[/font]
[font=arial]Delay 818[/font]
[font=arial]21st Air Flotilla[/font]
 
There are more, this is about half.