How to ruin the game?

[ComadrejaKorp]

My opinion, these strategies are not cheese or exploit, I think that the game is designed like that, creative freedom so that the possibilities are infinite (within a certain realism), and I think this is part of its success, although it is true that lately many strategies are popping up near the edge.

The problem, possible but not realistic?
History has shown us that what seems impossible can happen.

That said, I am against any strategy that ruins the game.

My problem with them is that they make the game ugly, if All-in works, Axis player leaves in 1940, if All-in does not work, Allied player leaves in 1941.
When using these extreme strategies the game is dead, it will be ugly no matter what.

To make a lot of changes in favor of Axis or that weaken France a lot, will force the Allies to always use All-In defense, and I think this is not the idea.

This is why I do not like the current solutions in Beta, I think that these strategies should be banned directly even if it is contrary to the philosophy of the game.

All-in defense solution: limit number of Uk troops in france

Solution to disband a lot: prohibition to dismantle initial troops (only allowed to disband the purchased ones)

Warplan was close to balance until this defense appeared, modifying things at this point will affect balance for Barbarrosa.

[AlvaroSousa]

The Russia situation had to change. Russia was a blowout in 1943 for one side or another.

I looked at Harrybanana and Hadros AAR. He did the BIG BEF and France fell August 2nd which is fairly reasonable. Both seem to be good players. It just needs to be shifted slightly so the average is July, thus why removing 100 strength from the UK is the correct move. It forces them to make choices as they can't be in all places at once. The UK got beefed up before because they were too weak and the Axis could overrun them easily in Africa.

[Ancient One]

I'm still curious why lowering the French units on the Maginot with 50% experience to 40% wasn't considered as part of a solution. Was it intended that moving those units out of the Maginot to replace them with 40% ones becomes the normal way to play?

[AlvaroSousa]

I reduced the French all to 40% in the beta.
I also just added that shattered units due to no retreat path but can trace supply go to the build queue for 2 turns instead of blowing up.

[Flaviusx]

Whoa. The shattered unit change is a big deal and not just for France.

I think I am okay with it, tbh. Shattering units for lack of a retreat path was a little too devastating all around. You could create some really nasty feedback loops this way.

I also like that now players have an actual reason for trying to cut off units from supply. Because up until now this was mostly irrelevant. Far easier to shatter units for lack of a retreat path and remove them entirely. Now you have to work at it a little harder if you want to get rid of them for good.

[MorningDew]

Those seem like two very good changes to me.

[Nirosi]

+1

[Harrybanana]

I for one really like this change Alvaro.

But my understanding is that it is only units shattered because of no retreat path that come back after 4 weeks. Units Shattered because of high combat odds (7:1 or greater) and low effectiveness will not return even if they have a retreat path.

Also a couple things to consider:

1. What about units in a port hex that have no retreat path (Gibraltar, Malta and often Leningrad and Odessa)? Because they are in a port hex (or in the case of Leningrad adjacent to one) does this mean they will return in 4 weeks? This probably won't have big repercussions for WarPlan, but might for Warplan Pacific.

2. How are the 2 turns counted? In the 39 Scenario the Axis always goes first. So if an Axis player Shatters an Allied unit on say his January 1 turn than the Allied player will receive the unit back on his January 29 turn. The Allied Player will therefore be without the unit for two turns, January 1 and January 15. But if the Allied Player Shatters a German unit on his January 1 turn, does this mean that the German Player will get the unit back on his January 29 turn or his February 12 turn? The problem with the former would be that the Axis Player will only be without the unit for 1 turn (January 15).

[Harrybanana]

I think this is the best solution to the All-In strategy. I wasn't that crazy about the All-In strategy anyway. In my game with Hadros, even though I destroyed 2 armour, a Mechanized and an infantry using this strategy, I don't know if it was worth it. Because I didn't build any early MS or escorts the British now have serious problems. If those Armour and Mechanized returned in 2 turns it definitely would not have been worth it. Once this Rule becosme official I will gladly play the Axis against anyone who wants to use the All-In strategy against me.

[Flaviusx]

I have to agree the shatter rule change all by itself kills the all in, the other stuff is almost irrelevant.

[AlvaroSousa]

If you shatter because of odds YOU DIE.
If you have NO retreat path, like Malta then YOU DIE.
If you can't connect to a supply source when you retreat YOU DIE.
If you can connect to a supply source, don't have a retreat path because the hexes are filled you shatter back to the queue if you retreat.

Shatter because of odds is due to being overrun and destroyed with a few soldiers running away.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

If you shatter because of odds YOU DIE.
If you have NO retreat path, like Malta then YOU DIE.
If you can't connect to a supply source when you retreat YOU DIE.
If you can connect to a supply source, don't have a retreat path because the hexes are filled you shatter back to the queue if you retreat.

Shatter because of odds is due to being overrun and destroyed with a few soldiers running away.

Alvaro, what do you mean by a "supply source". Is a friendly port (such as Alexandria for the British and Tobruk for the Italians) a "supply source"? If not, does this mean that units shattered in Africa will not return?

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

If you shatter because of odds YOU DIE.
If you have NO retreat path, like Malta then YOU DIE.
If you can't connect to a supply source when you retreat YOU DIE.
If you can connect to a supply source, don't have a retreat path because the hexes are filled you shatter back to the queue if you retreat.

Shatter because of odds is due to being overrun and destroyed with a few soldiers running away.

Seems good to me

[AlvaroSousa]

supply source is main or port

[Numdydar]

So if Alexandra is surrounded and the unit in the city shatters, it will come back at some point as an example.

But what if the port is blockaded? Then the unit should die should it not? Since there is no supply path at that point? Provides more reason to not have ports blockaded [:)]

[AlvaroSousa]

No you don't have a retreat path