Balance is Good

[AlvaroSousa]

Russian artillery is not what you think. All they did was concentrate it.

The Germans used I believe 8x the amount of ammunition for artillery on the Eastern Front as the Russians. I forgot which book I read this in. It was either Brute Force or Why the Allies Won.

Now the Western Allies..... they were all about artillery. They would advance, meet resistance, pull back, then shell the crap out of the location. Germans figured it out and would simply evacuate the location not to be killed. The Western Allies expended a ridiculous amount artillery ammunition.

[ncc1701e]

I should read this book. In few books, I was under the impression that Katyusha rocket launchers were having a devastating impact on German infantry.

Anyhow, any other suggestions to prevent the collapse of Russia in 1942? More PP coming to repair and upgrade everything while creating new armies and new air units?

[AllenK]

In Normandy at least, the sequence continued, which also accounts for the high expenditure.

Germans evacuate location. Allies take recently vacated positions and dig in. They take casualties due to pre-ranged German artillery but sit tight and use their artillery and air power to plaster the German troops as they leave cover to mount their doctrinal immediate counter-attack.

[CHINCHIN]

I must be very strange, because I see the Russians well, except my first PBEM that I had little idea, in all the others I resisted well with the USSR.

[ncc1701e]

I must be very strange, because I see the Russians well, except my first PBEM that I had little idea, in all the others I resisted well with the USSR.

Well, on my side, 1942 has always been a problem. Not for UK but for Russia. Russia is not strong enough because experience is not yet at a good level in the on-map units. May be I don’t use disband command enough to create new armies directly at the last experience level. But still, I have PP problem to buy new armies while repairing my air units.

If I pass 1942, then this is all good.

[ncc1701e]

Also, during 1941, the Germans are not taking enough losses imo.

[sveint]

Here is something that hampers Germany too much: submarines use too much oil.

A u-boat strategy simply isn't viable because the Axis runs out of oil.

[generalfdog]

Idk guys except for 1 game against a far better player where i am getting my butt kicked as Russia but really as the allies in general, I am seeing the opposite, where if the Russians play a rearward defense and don't get encircled to much, I am seeing Axis having a hard time rarely even getting historical objectives, which considering no one is going to be as dumb as historical USSR i would say means balance is pretty good

[canuckgamer]

We just started a new PBEM, the 1938 Small Fleet Campaign which we have never played. This will also be our first game with the overrun change, reduced rail advancement, and winterization of the Siberian reinforcements.
I was thinking of converting a number of the Russian corps to garrisons to gain some PP's. I'm also interested in your opinions as to whether I should build as many Russian corps as possible or save a signficant amount of PP's to build armies as soon as the Axis invade.
Any other tips on Russian strategy would be appreciated.

[AlvaroSousa]

Here is something that hampers Germany too much: submarines use too much oil.

A u-boat strategy simply isn't viable because the Axis runs out of oil.

I have played a good 10 games where I have no oil issue and build 10-11 subs as early as possible. Hadros noted that he had some oil problems but realize he build too much armor.

The effective cost of each unit is completely different.

An armor costs 1 oil to move and 2 armor to attack. If you attack say 3x a turn + movement you are looking at 7 oil compared to 1 for the sub.

A bomber flying twice uses 4-6 oil depending on the unit. A strat bomber 8 oil if I remember.

There are no force pools in the game but there are other constraints in terms of manpower and fuel that limit what you can do. On top of that most players I suspect don't strat bomb and force the Germans to expend PPs on air sups and AA.

[AlvaroSousa]

With the vast difference in skill levels for WP experiences can vary.

Hadros is a better player than I am. It isn't obviously seen but over the long game it is.

This is one of the major reasons it takes time to balance a game like this. I have to estimate and weigh in the skill levels of opponents. The game needs to be balanced so it is equal for 2 low level and 2 high level skilled players playing each other.

[ncc1701e]

fire up a game if you want. we can discuss strategy as we go. btw I am by no means an expert I lose all the time

PM sent. Let's try once again....

[ncc1701e]

We just started a new PBEM, the 1938 Small Fleet Campaign which we have never played. This will also be our first game with the overrun change, reduced rail advancement, and winterization of the Siberian reinforcements.
I was thinking of converting a number of the Russian corps to garrisons to gain some PP's. I'm also interested in your opinions as to whether I should build as many Russian corps as possible or save a signficant amount of PP's to build armies as soon as the Axis invade.
Any other tips on Russian strategy would be appreciated.

Sorry but I am losing Moscow and Leningrad in November 1941 right now. So, I prefer to not provide you losing tips.

[stjeand]

I am a poor Russian player but can play the other Allies pretty well...

My Russian suggestions..

1) Do NOT garrison many units. Only in places you want to really put up a fight or want to delay the enemy losing the unit. They will get surrounded and die.
2) Pepper the Russian front lines and behind them 2 deep with ZOCs...this has been of my major mistakes. You have to ZOC everything you can. Even if your front lines are just 1 unit deep...do not double them if you are unable to ZOC 4 to 5 hexes deep.
3) Keep your air out of the fight...they just get smoked. They will come in to play later with some strikes on units deep in your territory to try to slow down units. Try to keep your fighters are 100%...watch the battle information. If the Germans are using their fighters to bomb they will tire and when they do you can use yours...but you really need the 42 upgrade.
4) Oil is of no consequence SO if you can bomb a unit into the stone age with minimal losses do so.
5) KEEP YOUR PORTS covered. North and south. Losing one in the south could mean losing your oil...1 in the North could mean losing your Lend Lease.
6) Fall back a few hexes every turn. THIS I am terrible at...but you have too. You can try to hold at different river lines but you have to keep track of the German armor and remember...ZOCs are your friend. Being entrenched with weak units is useless.
7) Normally I build small corps up till March 41...then start saving...I also try to repair my armor / mech / HQs...some people don't bother until experience increases...but by then I have usually lost so...

[stjeand]

I don't feel subs use to much oil...I think armor does after all the changes to the Russian units since they now no longer die...I routinely am out of oil by the end of 41 due to poor planning and having to make 4 or 5 attacks with my armor to even move in Russia. Though that may be a good thing.

I think the issue with the BOA is that it is WAY to random.

In sveints game against me he built 12 Uboats and stacks of 3 rarely sank more then 2 MM...more often 0 or 1. Sinking 1 per turn means they are completely useless. Doing that with 6 subs...sinking 2 MM is even more useless...
I have not been able to find rhyme or reason to that. Near the UK...far from the UK...near Africa...near the US...seems to not make a difference other than maybe the hits on the Uboats.

NOW I have had games where stacks of 3 sink 4 to 6 many of the turns and if that had happened the Allies would have been busy just building MM and Escorts trying to slow them.

You seem to know as the Germans if the Uboats are going to be useful in 39...If you have sunk less than 10 MM and taken 6 hits...it is pretty much over. Building more does not seem to help.

I have had games in which I could not even sink 10 MM in 39...my subs go out...turn 1 hit 0...turn 2 hit 1 and take 2 hits...go back to repair...go out...hit 1 take 2 hits...go back to port...Someone might say...well you took 1 hit stay out. I did once and one of my subs got sunk...so I try to never leave them out with 2 damage on them...

Then I have had the opposite game...sinking 4 / 5 or 6 per turn...and the Allies are in trouble right away.

Do not get me wrong, random is good...but it is a game changer for the BOA.

But for the most part...they do not seem to cause enough of an issue against a good player to be overall worth the build.
9 more uboats = 3 more armor...Which will give you more bang the for buck depends on the randomization.

[ncc1701e]

6) Fall back a few hexes every turn. THIS I am terrible at...but you have too. You can try to hold at different river lines but you have to keep track of the German armor and remember...ZOCs are your friend. Being entrenched with weak units is useless.

Same here. Last try, I fallback too quickly I think. I can never get the correct pace.

[ncc1701e]

7) Normally I build small corps up till March 41...then start saving...I also try to repair my armor / mech / HQs...some people don't bother until experience increases...but by then I have usually lost so...

Are you buying them with Assault or Anti-Tank advancement? I was buying Anti-Tank before but it is costing lots of PP to switch them back from Anti-Tank to Assault later on. So now, I am buying them Assault. This is also to concentrate my labs.

But, I think this is why Germany is not losing much in 1941. I think I must stop doing this switching of advancement and just disband the remaining corps.

[stjeand]

Are you buying them with Assault or Anti-Tank advancement? I was buying Anti-Tank before but it is costing lots of PP to switch them back from Anti-Tank to Assault later on. So now, I am buying them Assault. This is also to concentrate my labs.

I have tried both...for the moment I just went back to Assault.

Prior I would only buy Anti-tank...but they do not have all the extra science to keep both going and with all the armies arriving with Assault I will stick with just that now.

I do not upgrade any of them...in fact I keep them no upgrade / no repair.

Also Anti-tank and Assault are the same in 39 and 40 so...it is a waste. IF they were different like they should be...then I would have a decision to make.

[aoffen]

I don't feel subs use to much oil...I think armor does after all the changes to the Russian units since they now no longer die...I routinely am out of oil by the end of 41 due to poor planning and having to make 4 or 5 attacks with my armor to even move in Russia. Though that may be a good thing.

I think the issue with the BOA is that it is WAY to random.

In sveints game against me he built 12 Uboats and stacks of 3 rarely sank more then 2 MM...more often 0 or 1. Sinking 1 per turn means they are completely useless. Doing that with 6 subs...sinking 2 MM is even more useless...
I have not been able to find rhyme or reason to that. Near the UK...far from the UK...near Africa...near the US...seems to not make a difference other than maybe the hits on the Uboats.

NOW I have had games where stacks of 3 sink 4 to 6 many of the turns and if that had happened the Allies would have been busy just building MM and Escorts trying to slow them.

You seem to know as the Germans if the Uboats are going to be useful in 39...If you have sunk less than 10 MM and taken 6 hits...it is pretty much over. Building more does not seem to help.

I have had games in which I could not even sink 10 MM in 39...my subs go out...turn 1 hit 0...turn 2 hit 1 and take 2 hits...go back to repair...go out...hit 1 take 2 hits...go back to port...Someone might say...well you took 1 hit stay out. I did once and one of my subs got sunk...so I try to never leave them out with 2 damage on them...

Then I have had the opposite game...sinking 4 / 5 or 6 per turn...and the Allies are in trouble right away.

Do not get me wrong, random is good...but it is a game changer for the BOA.

But for the most part...they do not seem to cause enough of an issue against a good player to be overall worth the build.
9 more uboats = 3 more armor...Which will give you more bang the for buck depends on the randomization.

I also notice the same trend. It’s like every game has a secret switch. Effective Subs or Useless Subs. It feels like you know by the end of 1939 which way the switch is turned and if the sub war will be successful or not. Maybe it is just my imagination but after 5 or 6 games now it certainly feels that way.

[sveint]

Personally I can never get my uboats to work. You are all correct - they do not use too much oil.

stjeand gives good advice about the Soviets. ZOC is everything. Also builds are very hard. You need many more rifle corps, but they are very PP inefficient, so... when to stop building them? I'm not sure to be honest. Everything with 30% xp is just a stopgap. Saving PP for armies is nice but hits manpower too hard. I do know one thing, do not waste PP on paratroopers or anything, you need every single PP to go towards slowing the Germans. Oh and don't build armor until it arrives with at least 7 moves.