No AI ?

[scout1]

A might slow on the uptake .... but skimming thru some of these posts .... and product page ..... there is or is no AI with the release ? Would seem kinda hard to learn w/o AI .... Have I overlooked this ?

[Neilster]

There won't be an AI with the first release but there will be extensive training videos and interactive tutorials for newbies. Also the manuals will contain heaps of advice on tactics and strategy.

Cheers, Neilster

[scout1]

thanks for the info .......

looking at the product page .... no pbem either ?

[Neilster]

Not initially but probably quite soon. On first release it's solitaire or 2 players online at the same time.

Vague guesstimate for the AI is in 12 months.

Cheers, Neilster

[Erik Rutins]

The initial release has up to two players via internet multiplayer using our routing server. Up to 6 players via the same server is planned for a post-release update and PBEM and AI are in the works as future features, but not for this release.

[Gneisenau]

Bummed about no AI. You state "Up to 6 players via the same...". Not true. With no AI it would be .... 2 to 6 players via the same....

[Grotius]

No, MWIF can be played by one person, in solitaire mode. I do it all the time (I'm a long-time beta-tester), and it's great fun. As wargames go, MWIF is quite solitaire-friendly. It has no hidden units or fog of war on the map. (Unlike, say, War in the Pacific-Admiral's Edition, which is not at all solitaire-friendly.) I find I'll make what I think is the best move for one side, then find mistakes when I'm playing the other side -- rinse and repeat.

Solitaire gaming isn't for everyone (almost literally!). But there's a time-honored tradition of board wargamers playing wargames solitaire. I have solitaire OCS "Case Blue" and solitaire TCS "Canadian Crucible" set up on my gaming tables right now.

I think I make a stronger opponent for myself than most AI.

[DSWargamer]

I have spent so many posts in the past slagging the game...

I was positive the inclusion of the AI was responsible for the massive delay...

Then I landed a spot on the beta and my first reaction was OMG! I have never felt so over my head like during that first glance. I stepped down from the beta, I know when I am in over my head.

This product will be a defining moment in wargaming.

There really can be only one downside to MWiF being released... there won't be any reason to buy any other serious grand strategy wargame made for computer. Well unless you want to play second best and that's all anything else is going to look like.

Strategic Command 3 won't have any means of competing at all, Gary's monster titles will actually seem empty of substance. If you are going to play a game, and you actually expect real hard core serious challenge, well everything else is going to come up short in comparison.

No AI? that is actually the moment I realized I wanted this game.

You boys already know why I said that, and you already know why I couldn't care less how many of you won't be buying it till the AI is provided. Your choice. Just try and not say anything about your precious AI when it lets you down eh.

Pity about the map, my last home actually had a 9x21 foot run of wall too (old house 12 foot ceilings). That would have allowed me to us it with magnetized counters on a metal backing.

Love the look of the books. I can so see myself getting those.

I can actually see myself getting rid of all my other computer wargames for this one (well all accept Panzer Corps series and Battle Academy). I've been annoyed that I never have anywhere to play the board game.

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
This product will be a defining moment in [computer] wargaming.
There really can be only one downside to MWiF being released... there won't be any reason to buy any other serious grand strategy wargame made for computer.

There's always room for more! Alternative boardgames such as A World At War and Totaler Krieg/Dai Senso and others have there own appeal to those who play them, and perhaps someday we may see computer versions of those. WiF certainly has its appeal but it remains to be seen how well MWiF might attract cross-over players and newbies. There are also differences between ETO and PTO grand strategy wargames versus the global games that provide another perspective for players, and of course the operational and tactical level games for additional detail and flavor that the global grand strategy level doesn't get into. So I wouldn't be so quick to declare that THIS game is THE game and now the ONLY game. Certainly a good one and I'm looking forward to getting into it.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

No, MWIF can be played by one person, in solitaire mode. I do it all the time (I'm a long-time beta-tester), and it's great fun. As wargames go, MWIF is quite solitaire-friendly. It has no hidden units or fog of war on the map. (Unlike, say, War in the Pacific-Admiral's Edition, which is not at all solitaire-friendly.) I find I'll make what I think is the best move for one side, then find mistakes when I'm playing the other side -- rinse and repeat.

Solitaire gaming isn't for everyone (almost literally!). But there's a time-honored tradition of board wargamers playing wargames solitaire. I have solitaire OCS "Case Blue" and solitaire TCS "Canadian Crucible" set up on my gaming tables right now.

I think I make a stronger opponent for myself than most AI.

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but I am a long time player of WitP AE and find the sloitare mode is just fine. Especially with all the new beta changes. Not to mention the fabulous mods like the Relucent Admiral and BaBabes.

But I do agree with you about WiF playing solitare as it is no different with what I used to do with board games in the past and now as well. I too was a major complainer about no AI and it did take me a while to come arount to accept the game would not initially have one (plus it would cost additional money when it does come out). But I am far more willing now to accept not having an AI that I was a while ago simple because of the amazing quality of the production of the game.

I agree with DSWargamer comments as well. However, it will take a lot to have me let go of WitP AE [:)]. Even WiF cannot compare with the depth and detail of that [:)]

[DSWargamer]

Well the problem with European dynamics and Pacific dynamics has cursed more than a few designs in the last 40 or so years.

Advanced Third Reich is about as far as I wanted to take that design. I have the research manual that arrived with Rising Sun, but missed out getting the actual Rising Sun title. That game arrived unfortunately in the exact time I was stuck in a move from city life to back home small town. And then it was gone.

Some designs ace the land war, but never manage a decent naval model. Some designs ace the naval game, but are unsuited for the European land war. And often they mangle each other trying to be the other.

I haven't been in the market for new board games sadly since about 1990. Not saying that they are not out there, I just haven't had the chance to indulge. That and having kids tends to mess with your board gaming schedule

I am not sure who the target market will be with MWiF, but I'd be greatly impressed if a newcomer called in 'interesting' I think WiF is as far into the deep end as wargaming can go. Not that it is the deepest of the deep end. I'd be inclined to think WitP is likely the deepest spot in the deep end actually. I don't think I'd want a game that was Gary's design ala full global like WiF will be. Some stuff I just don't wish to simulate like that.

I'd rather this was a board game, I'd rather I had a 9x21 piece of wall too
I consider MWiF as a means to an end, an opportunity to play my board game, without the massive surface area.

This game won't be everyone's desire. I have several wargames that are not on everyone's must have list.

Now if I could only play my ASL on a computer, no not VASL, I mean a fully self contained doesn't need the physical game computer emulation utility.... and yes, with absolutely no AI It's such a pain to store that game.

[Numdydar]

Unfortunaly Hasbro will never let a computer version of ASL come to pass. Not sure if they would even know how to make any computer game lol.

There has been a major effort to just get the ASL manual into PDF form that is searchable. That alone would be an awesome asset. But they will not allow that either [:(].

This is all very sad since I too would love a computerized ASL game. I guess I will have to console myself with WiF [:D]

[brian brian]

no AI?

Run, run, run for the roses
Quicker it opens, the sooner it closes
Man, oh, man, oh, friend of mine
All good things in all good time

Reach for the sun, catch hold of the moon
They're both too heavy but what can you do?
Reach for the stars, smack into the sky

- one of my favorite songs

[Missouri_Rebel]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Unfortunaly Hasbro will never let a computer version of ASL come to pass. Not sure if they would even know how to make any computer game lol.

There has been a major effort to just get the ASL manual into PDF form that is searchable. That alone would be an awesome asset. But they will not allow that either [:(].

This is all very sad since I too would love a computerized ASL game. I guess I will have to console myself with WiF [:D]

off topic a bit but

My wife bought me the ASL 2nd ed rules for Christmas the year before last. I promptly went to work scanning every page, running them through an OCR (optical character recognition) program, fixed any errors it created by not reading them correctly, and converted them to a single pdf file. In the screens you can see that I added hyperlinks (the light purple rule numbers) to the corresponding rules, highlighted the rule numbers and headers, changed the text colors of exceptions to red and changed the example colors to green. It has a fully functioning index that I hyperlinked also. Took me hundreds of hours but I now have my rulebook in pdf form.

[Missouri_Rebel]

.

[Missouri_Rebel]

Since I ran it through the ocr I can also do searches, including adobes advanced search. As you can see by the highlighted blue field on the page I had searched for the key word vehicle.

It is very crisp and clear. Much more so than these screens capture.

[DSWargamer]

I have seen some of the creations of the various incarnations of the ASL manual done into pdf form, have a few myself.

I am mainly guessing the only reason there has been no objection from Hasborg, is there is nothing wrong with me scanning MY property and the nice thing about paper, is a book is a THING and not a PROGRAM and provides totally different ways for a lawyer to argue about

But yeah, it likely will be 5 days after hell freezes over before Hasborg ever gets any desire to market anything ASL whatsoever, and they would almost certainly make it a bloody mess. The only reason ASL even exists, is because a group called MMP went to them and begged Hasborg to let MMP be allowed to be an official licensed source.

When I first saw Third Reich go PC I thought it was cool, but it is the pre A3R edition. A3R has Warplanner software, but again, I'd rather it was the game, not just a utility using the board game. I saw WiF appear, and thought it would be great to have that on a PC. Shame it has taken so long, but well I'm at least not dead yet

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Unfortunaly Hasbro will never let a computer version of ASL come to pass. Not sure if they would even know how to make any computer game lol.

There has been a major effort to just get the ASL manual into PDF form that is searchable. That alone would be an awesome asset. But they will not allow that either [:(].

This is all very sad since I too would love a computerized ASL game. I guess I will have to console myself with WiF [:D]

I think a computerized Squad Leader would be great, but I also think it is a programming nightmare to even get it to run with rules as written given the amount of rules involved with ASL. I can't even imagine trying to get a AI to run a game like ASL worth a lick simply because of all the decision steps, etc.

I am not defending Hasbro, but the chances that Wizards of the Coast doing a computerized version of ASL was about 0 as well. A/H was on its last legs when WOTC bought them and clearly the market was changing with all the computerization going on. Trying to do ASL as a program would require a lot of resources and there would likely be more issues with it than a strategic game like WiF believe it or not.

The other issue for ASL fans is there are a lot of games that are on the level above ASL in scale. (Panzer Leader/Blitz was more or less computerized as Panzer Leader in terms of scale and I am sure there are others as well).

I think ASL fans will have to be content with systems that allow them to play on line without enforcement of the rules or an AI. (IE 3rd party systems). I played Squad Leader way back in the day when it first came out and got the first two expansions, but it just wasn't for me long term, so I have not played a game in probably 30 years.

[Grotius]

It's hard to imagine a competent AI for ASL, but I could imagine a program that enforces ASL's rules and lets players play solitaire or via Netplay. I would so buy that! It would get me playing ASL again. I no longer have the energy to pore over that rulebook every time I play.

[DSWargamer]

Just to pick a nit, but WOTC does not own the AH brand, as the WOTC brand is itself owned by Hasborg hence the derisive version of the name.

I still recall the year it was reported that Hasborg had called it a 1 billion dollar loss on Pokemon, all because the previous year it had sold 2 billion and the year in question it had ONLY sold 1 billion. And people wonder why the world of the marketplace is full of crap. If you sell 1 billion, you made 1 billion. If you had 1 billion in product in a truck go missing, THEN you lost 1 billion.

As much as I love ASL, a large part of me wishes that had left it alone as Squad Leader, and simply contented themselves to issue expansion packs of new counters and maps using the exact same rules. ASL was not successful by virtue of it's design, it was successful by virtue of SLs design, a truth that I wish more wargames were able to master.

Sometimes we ruin a game by 'improving' it.

I am not sure how many would really complain, if we had been left to play wargames solo sans any form of AI in the exact same fashion that a board game must be played. I likely would play my computer wargames a lot more, if they were a lot more like the board games ie no AI and just conveniently immune to cats.