When?

[Kronans]

one question are ther only one that is programing the game?

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Kronans

one question are ther only one that is programing the game?

Strictly programming, yes. Although there is a lot of people doing collateral work.

However, this is very usual in computer games, one or two persons carry most or all the programming work.

[Caquineur]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
October 1, 2009 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum
I. Project Management
I had a long conversation with David Heath and Erik Rutins. All of us want MWIF to be bug-free (to the best of our knowledge) before release.

Thanks for that - apart from the fact that releasing a game with a lot of bugs would be (IMO) killing the hen who lays golden eggs (and a shame considering the work done so far), it shows a commitment to the customers that is much appreciated

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Alain (Caquineur) continued his quest to find all the things that I have done wrong. Regrettably what he finds is wrong and needs to be corrected. This past month he read through the picture and text tutorials (125 pages) and found several dozen typos and the like.

"his quest to find all the things that I have done wrong" [:D] Nothing personal here ! [:'(]
In fact, as I'm a beginner in WiF, I read everything I can, carefully (from data files to tutorials), and I simply note everything that doesn't seem right - but I can only do so because the reading material itself, even though with errors, is interesting (and it's an understatement)

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Alain sent me an updated version of the Land Unit writeups, which contained new contributions from Adam and David Hughes.

It contained only the contributions from Adam. I hadn't had time to include David's.
(That's what I meant when I said "I haven't included David's additions yet." in my mail)

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
IX. Glitz (historical video, sound effects, music, historical unit write-ups)
To the best of my knowledge, the currently active authors for the unit writeups are Robert, Alain, Adam, and David. I am waiting on the sound effects from Jim and the music from Dave.
...

Thanks for the credit about writing write-ups for me, but it's undeserved, as I didn't write any of them (I'm more on the "find all the wrong things" part of the business [;)])

Alain

Edit : spelling mistake(s)

[Jagdtiger14]

Come to think of it...maybe playing without oil would not be too bad with MWiF since counter density would be less with the map expansions esp. Asian hexes.

As for Azana...I'm an adrent anti-leftist;-)...which unfortunately happened to be both sides in in that civil war. I suppose as the leader of the Republican side Azana should have an HQ...I'm not sure the 2 re-org value is deserving in light of the result he had. I dont think he re-orged anything and was constantly on the run?

C

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio


Thanks for the info about RAW7 and I am glad to see someone else is critical with some of the latests versions of the game (although it keeps on being the best, of course ) .

As for Azaña, I don't know what you mean, but it was the only Republican Spain HQ, so...

[brian brian]

I haven't tried Factories in Flames and even if rules holes/questions/problems came out in the finished version, I would have to say that it was tested and worked on in draft versions for several years before it came out. I saw one of the very first drafts a long time ago. One of the problems with WiF I think is that the English language works just slightly differently all around the world and what is clear to a native English rules writer in one country comes out a little fuzzy somewhere else. Also anyone writing a wargame rule already knows their intent but it takes a lot of people reading and using the same rules language to uncover all the possible permutations in the game, so some things will never come to attention until the great mass of players give it a try.

[nanorider426]

ORIGINAL: kc_chiefs

Name me one program that anyone has written that didn't have some error in it.

MINESWEEPER!

Sorry! I couldn't resist the temptation. [8|]

Let's all join in the old coder's anthem...ahem...

99 little bugs in the code
99 bugs in the code
fix one bug
compile it again
101 little bugs in the code

> (Repeat until BUGS = 0)

Jokes aside, thank you so much for all your work Steve. Also thank you for the monthly updates. It's been said before but I'll gladly say it again, it's remarkable that you post these reports in the forum for the community to read. It's one of the most userfriendly and overall nice things that I've ever seen a game company do for it's consumers (or fanbase). It's always exciting to read them and look for changes and completed topics. Kudos for that! [:)]

...and as always : [&o] Keep up the good work!

Cheers

Edit: Oh yes, I finally gave up on the Danish translation. I've asked those of my friends who might have shown some interest in the endevour but those I asked were not terribly interested, so that kind of settles it. To further compound it my job just got a bit more taxing recently, so I simply don't have the time to do it anyway. Would have been fun though.

[Jagdtiger14]

I find it hard to believe that any group having play tested Factory in Flames did not notice the production problem with USSR. Once our group started playing it(after it came out in the annual), we spoted a bunch of problems and questions...all of which were addressed, and then one of our group who happens to be on the rules committee developed "Simple Factory in Flames" which will now replace regular Factory in Flames.
C

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I haven't tried Factories in Flames and even if rules holes/questions/problems came out in the finished version, I would have to say that it was tested and worked on in draft versions for several years before it came out. I saw one of the very first drafts a long time ago. One of the problems with WiF I think is that the English language works just slightly differently all around the world and what is clear to a native English rules writer in one country comes out a little fuzzy somewhere else. Also anyone writing a wargame rule already knows their intent but it takes a lot of people reading and using the same rules language to uncover all the possible permutations in the game, so some things will never come to attention until the great mass of players give it a try.

[monkla]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I find it hard to believe that any group having play tested Factory in Flames did not notice the production problem with USSR. Once our group started playing it(after it came out in the annual), we spoted a bunch of problems and questions...all of which were addressed, and then one of our group who happens to be on the rules committee developed "Simple Factory in Flames" which will now replace regular Factory in Flames.
C


What problems do you refer to??? My group has recently started playing with Factory in Flames (we're only in 1938, DODIII). No-one has yet mentioned any problems that they think exist. (I'm playing USA so haven't so don't have a close take on what's with Russian production).

Thanks
Leigh

[morgil]

After having played a game with FoF, our group found several things that were "wrong".
First of all, the shipyards. Spend one BP on a ship, get one extra for free, this means there will be a whole lot more ships on the map than it used to be. What we found was that CW can outproduce Germany on the sea, so there will be more ASW's built than there will be subs, and any combat will hit the subs harder and harder during the war, thus rendering that part of the war useless for Germany. The situation between Japan and USA is more on par, but we found that Japan actually ran out of ships to build, while the US didnt, and then got the edge that way.
For Germany and Russia, its the added bonus of having to produce units in a fatory hex, and not in any random city, meaning its easier to target spesiffic units during building, and harder to get them to where they need to be, specially for USSR.
Then you have the speciallization thingies, that Germany get rather sooner than USSR, this means there will be a lot more 3 factor bombers on German side, since you can choose them, and that you will allways get the highest value MOT and MECH, instead of the average, witch is like two combat factors weaker.
On the pluss side for USSR was that the lend-lease aircraft now came fully built, delivered to Murmansk on a transporter, instead of them having to build it themselves. Dunno if we did it right in that game, but it certainly increased the Lend Lease.

[Jagdtiger14]

You'll see that in 1943 USSR struggles to get into the 30BP's...when normally in 1943 USSR has about 40BP's(not including LL). This is huge! Playing with city mods is highly recomended!!! Also, play with some kind of oil rule, if you dont then there is way too much builds. Factory in Flames is better for the USA, and actually makes WiF a bit more realistic from the US perspective since the USA is understated in regular WiF versions. If not playing with oil, as the USA I highly recomend building 5 extra factories asap. Also, there is finally a good use for the far Soviet eastern territory(Petropavlovsk)...put Clark there, the 10 range 7pt FTR2, and a good NAV to mess with the Sea of Japan. Keeping that port also allows 1 auto BP to USSR if playing with that option(Japan will want to take it along with the other two ports it needs to stop that auto LL). The CV shipyard makes building the CVL's worthwhile.

Everyone loves crack-points...makes it possible to re-org an HQ cheaply to keep offensives alive...especially Japan vs China! Japan has been given an air spec by the way...thats a change from the original version. I was pushing for it to be included in the Japanese setup and to allow the Japs to be able to pick all their carrier air at setup...not sure if that is the case in the update though.

I'm not aware of all the problems because in the current game we are playing(I'm playing US/China)...I'm kinda concentrating on the Pacific theater...the moans and groans over Factory in Flames problems reach me like static noise from the European theater. I'll try to get more specifics.
C

ORIGINAL: monkla

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I find it hard to believe that any group having play tested Factory in Flames did not notice the production problem with USSR. Once our group started playing it(after it came out in the annual), we spoted a bunch of problems and questions...all of which were addressed, and then one of our group who happens to be on the rules committee developed "Simple Factory in Flames" which will now replace regular Factory in Flames.
C


What problems do you refer to??? My group has recently started playing with Factory in Flames (we're only in 1938, DODIII). No-one has yet mentioned any problems that they think exist. (I'm playing USA so haven't so don't have a close take on what's with Russian production).

Thanks
Leigh

[monkla]

Obviously we managed to fumble our way through successfully then, 'cos before we even started our first game we left out the shipyards. Also, after reading the specialization rules, we modified them to only one unit can be selected per hex, rather than one per factory stack. Figuring that the specialization only costs one point and that this was still a good enough bonues. As the US, I certainly intend building some when I can. From memory, not the armor though. It comes out too late to be any good...

Leigh

ORIGINAL: morgil

After having played a game with FoF, our group found several things that were "wrong".
First of all, the shipyards. Spend one BP on a ship, get one extra for free, this means there will be a whole lot more ships on the map than it used to be. What we found was that CW can outproduce Germany on the sea, so there will be more ASW's built than there will be subs, and any combat will hit the subs harder and harder during the war, thus rendering that part of the war useless for Germany. The situation between Japan and USA is more on par, but we found that Japan actually ran out of ships to build, while the US didnt, and then got the edge that way.
For Germany and Russia, its the added bonus of having to produce units in a fatory hex, and not in any random city, meaning its easier to target spesiffic units during building, and harder to get them to where they need to be, specially for USSR.
Then you have the speciallization thingies, that Germany get rather sooner than USSR, this means there will be a lot more 3 factor bombers on German side, since you can choose them, and that you will allways get the highest value MOT and MECH, instead of the average, witch is like two combat factors weaker.
On the pluss side for USSR was that the lend-lease aircraft now came fully built, delivered to Murmansk on a transporter, instead of them having to build it themselves. Dunno if we did it right in that game, but it certainly increased the Lend Lease.

[fallgelb]

@ Morgil a few annotations to FoF (if we play it the right way!):
1. The shipyard give you 1 BP Bonus for the first ship only. One of us said that the german shipyard is the best allied unit, because germany pumps BP into ships, and that may be not good.
2. In our second FoF Game we have CW under pressure. BoA is going very well, only some ASW (our DR were very well i must admit).
3. The German ARM spewcialisation is not much of use. I'am biulding any ARM/MECH in every game, regardelsee of Barbarossa or Meiterranean Strategy.
4. USSR city bonuses were compensated with the loss of unit bonusses. I think the USSR looses more than 0,25 Equivalent in a fierce Barbarossa. Without city bonus its more interesting for germany not to attack russia. But anyway you have now +0,25 I think.
5. For Japan we play more with land based air than with more ships. We built not every game the Yamato Class ships.
I think with a little experience FoF will be a very goog expansion, but some rules have to be reconsidered:
1. Strategic Bombing is nearly worthless, ecause "emtpy factories" cannot be hitted.
2. Russian GBA are not linked to BP.
3. Production Bonuses for beeing in home country and losses of units are not crystal clear (also MinorPowers?)
4. Lend Lease von US to CW. Now with seperate home country productionit should be possible to deliver some BP to canada per rail, but not to allow "beaming" of BP to CW as it is prohibited in RAW.
And there will be a lot more to be developed in playtesting.

[Joseignacio]

Yes, I have thought that the Asian map in a different scale would mean a need of many more units, it means and maybe, the change of some of their values of movement.

As for me, I would stay to the left of the Democrat Party, from my initial origins of marxism-leninism, from which I still keep many ideas. As Putin said: "Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain." It was a wonderful idea impossible to fulfill, and corrupted by men.

However, to say that both sides in the civil war were leftist... Wow. franco did not ally with Hitler only because of some factors:

- He was afraid
- The country was in ruins, although the military were experienced and first class after three year's war there were left no more than infantry, almost no navy, no mech or armor..., we were an easy objective. A weaker Italy and more exposed. And there were the partisans that stayed after the war, the maquis, which would have increased with the foreign help.
- Hitler did not give what he wanted when they met at the border in Hendaya, be it what it could be: Some say the promise of Gibraltar, some say (more probable) massive help for the reconstruction of the country.

In fact, Franco sent a Division to Russia, to help Hitler, where it fought with heroism in despite of their poor means.

However, the National side was a combination of the most right-winged people you could find in Europe: Requetés, Falange, Fascists, ... To call them leftists must be a joke for anyone to the left of Hitler. [:)]

It was unfortunate that the Republican HQ was named Azaña, since he was just one politician more, with few direct influence in strategy itself, not like all the other HQs in the game. for example, Franco was also a general and most of the war he was commander in Chief, and Mussolini, Roosevelt, and Hitler don't have HQ in WIF, which is ok for me. They could have gave the name of general Rojo instead.

As for "on the run", the mostly green and volunutary-filled Republican army bravely stood for 3 years against much stronger and professional land forces (legionnaires and morocchian soldiers from our colonies), supported by powerful German aviation ( Condor Legion) and Italian armor and mech forces + volunteers, with the sole help of a bunch of rifle-armed idealist coming to defend the legal government form the fascist Coup from all the world, including the USA (may they all be blessed), the International Brigades.

Only when the war was in it's latest weeks, the Government moved to Valencia when the fall of Madrid was unavoidable.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Yes, I have thought that the Asian map in a different scale would mean a need of many more units, it means and maybe, the change of some of their values of movement.

As for me, I would stay to the left of the Democrat Party, from my initial origins of marxism-leninism, from which I still keep many ideas. As Putin said: "Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain." It was a wonderful idea impossible to fulfill, and corrupted by men.

However, to say that both sides in the civil war were leftist... Wow. franco did not ally with Hitler only because of some factors:

- He was afraid
- The country was in ruins, although the military were experienced and first class after three year's war there were left no more than infantry, almost no navy, no mech or armor..., we were an easy objective. A weaker Italy and more exposed. And there were the partisans that stayed after the war, the maquis, which would have increased with the foreign help.
- Hitler did not give what he wanted when they met at the border in Hendaya, be it what it could be: Some say the promise of Gibraltar, some say (more probable) massive help for the reconstruction of the country.

In fact, Franco sent a Division to Russia, to help Hitler, where it fought with heroism in despite of their poor means.

However, the National side was a combination of the most right-winged people you could find in Europe: Requetés, Falange, Fascists, ... To call them leftists must be a joke for anyone to the left of Hitler. [:)]

It was unfortunate that the Republican HQ was named Azaña, since he was just one politician more, with few direct influence in strategy itself, not like all the other HQs in the game. for example, Franco was also a general and most of the war he was commander in Chief, and Mussolini, Roosevelt, and Hitler don't have HQ in WIF, which is ok for me. They could have gave the name of general Rojo instead.

As for "on the run", the mostly green and volunutary-filled Republican army bravely stood for 3 years against much stronger and professional land forces (legionnaires and morocchian soldiers from our colonies), supported by powerful German aviation ( Condor Legion) and Italian armor and mech forces + volunteers, with the sole help of a bunch of rifle-armed idealist coming to defend the legal government form the fascist Coup from all the world, including the USA (may they all be blessed), the International Brigades.

Only when the war was in it's latest weeks, the Government moved to Valencia when the fall of Madrid was unavoidable.

Warspite1

Certainly one of the great "what ifs" of the Second World War. Its late Summer 1940 and Spain agrees to attack Gibraltar with assistance from the Luftwaffe and a few key land units. I think it must be assumed that Gibraltar cannot hold out and as a consequence the Western Mediterranean is then closed to the British. Malta - without the reinforcements supplied courtesy of Force H and the merchant navy via Gibraltar - falls later without the need for an invasion.

The period in the later half of 1941 when so many Axis supplies fail to reach Tripoli - courtesy of the Malta Strike Force and subs operating from that island - does not happen. Was that enough to enable Rommel to take Egypt?

How would the British have reacted? Maybe they would not have sent men to Greece, but instead kicked the Italians out of Africa before Rommel landed in February 1941 by continuing on to Tripoli?

Fascinating stuff......

P.S

Joseignacio - I don`t suppose you know where I could get info to fill three Spanish Transport counters? E.g. Do you know what vessels would have transported Franco`s troops from North Africa?

P.P.S

Apologies this all seems to have gone a bit off-topic

[composer99]

That bugs in the code ditty is hilarious.

The game will hopefully be ready sooner rather than later; however I'd rather have a mostly bug-free game than not, so I will continue to remind myself that patience is a virtue. [:)]

[Petracelli69]

keep going Steve, so looking forward to it's release
 
cheers
 
Phil

[Jagdtiger14]

I'm not sure the Republican side for DoDIII should even have a TRS. When Azana gave Stalin the 510 tonnes of Spanish gold reserves, Stalin had to transport it himself...and even "charged" Spain for the transport. I would like to see Matrix move towards DoDIII in their next WiF product.

Edited by moderator.
C

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Yes, I have thought that the Asian map in a different scale would mean a need of many more units, it means and maybe, the change of some of their values of movement.

As for me, I would stay to the left of the Democrat Party, from my initial origins of marxism-leninism, from which I still keep many ideas. As Putin said: "Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain." It was a wonderful idea impossible to fulfill, and corrupted by men.

However, to say that both sides in the civil war were leftist... Wow. franco did not ally with Hitler only because of some factors:

- He was afraid
- The country was in ruins, although the military were experienced and first class after three year's war there were left no more than infantry, almost no navy, no mech or armor..., we were an easy objective. A weaker Italy and more exposed. And there were the partisans that stayed after the war, the maquis, which would have increased with the foreign help.
- Hitler did not give what he wanted when they met at the border in Hendaya, be it what it could be: Some say the promise of Gibraltar, some say (more probable) massive help for the reconstruction of the country.

In fact, Franco sent a Division to Russia, to help Hitler, where it fought with heroism in despite of their poor means.

However, the National side was a combination of the most right-winged people you could find in Europe: Requetés, Falange, Fascists, ... To call them leftists must be a joke for anyone to the left of Hitler. [:)]

It was unfortunate that the Republican HQ was named Azaña, since he was just one politician more, with few direct influence in strategy itself, not like all the other HQs in the game. for example, Franco was also a general and most of the war he was commander in Chief, and Mussolini, Roosevelt, and Hitler don't have HQ in WIF, which is ok for me. They could have gave the name of general Rojo instead.

As for "on the run", the mostly green and volunutary-filled Republican army bravely stood for 3 years against much stronger and professional land forces (legionnaires and morocchian soldiers from our colonies), supported by powerful German aviation ( Condor Legion) and Italian armor and mech forces + volunteers, with the sole help of a bunch of rifle-armed idealist coming to defend the legal government form the fascist Coup from all the world, including the USA (may they all be blessed), the International Brigades.

Only when the war was in it's latest weeks, the Government moved to Valencia when the fall of Madrid was unavoidable.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Warspite1

Certainly one of the great "what ifs" of the Second World War. Its late Summer 1940 and Spain agrees to attack Gibraltar with assistance from the Luftwaffe and a few key land units. I think it must be assumed that Gibraltar cannot hold out and as a consequence the Western Mediterranean is then closed to the British. Malta - without the reinforcements supplied courtesy of Force H and the merchant navy via Gibraltar - falls later without the need for an invasion.

The period in the later half of 1941 when so many Axis supplies fail to reach Tripoli - courtesy of the Malta Strike Force and subs operating from that island - does not happen. Was that enough to enable Rommel to take Egypt?

How would the British have reacted? Maybe they would not have sent men to Greece, but instead kicked the Italians out of Africa before Rommel landed in February 1941 by continuing on to Tripoli?

Fascinating stuff......

P.S

Joseignacio - I don`t suppose you know where I could get info to fill three Spanish Transport counters? E.g. Do you know what vessels would have transported Franco`s troops from North Africa?

P.P.S

Apologies this all seems to have gone a bit off-topic

First, I will say I have not been to Giraltar myself, although I have been very close this very summer. But let me tell you that Gibraltar is a tiny area of under 7 square km, which means les that 3 square miles, they have a (very recent) short airport lane which has to cross the road itself and traffic is paralized when used.



Although it seems it has massive excavations (not so massive then) , I cannot imagine a way they could have resisted a serious attack from the spanish army in what is not more than a beach head, let alone be supported by luftwaffe, howitzers and commandos, no matter how much sea or (sea-based)aerial ground support they were given.

Sorry about the offTopic, as for me, it ends here, and if someone wants to follow up the discussion we can start a new topic.

I cannot know if it got politized because there has been an edition, but it was not my intention either and I am glad it stays as it is. [:)]

As for the transports, Warspite, I have a couple of friends who have a degree in History and they probably know or can find the info. I will let you know wth a PM.

[BallyJ]

I would like to request that this be moved to another thread.
I keep looking here expecting to see something about WHEN???

I am not trying to be difficult but fair is fair guys!
regards John

[brian brian]

I thought a fair amount of Franco's "Army of Africa" was flown to Spain on Ju-52's ... which is why Days of Decision used to make a big deal about committing foreign ATR units to Spain. Not sure how it works in DoD III.