overrun bug or I have the rule wrong?

[jjdenver]

Hi, I am trying to overrun on a breakthrough attk. One hex has 9-6 ARM + 1-5 MOT and other has 7-5ARM, 8-4MOT.

I'd like to overrun the 4-2 ART behind the attack hex. It seems to me that both stacks can overrun using 2D10 since both have +16 vs the ART which should defend with a 1 since stacked alone. But the game says overrun requirements not met during advance after combat. Does anyone know why? It's a bug?

Also just to clarify my understanding - will any overrunning unit(s) be disorganized because they have to spend 2 to get into the overrun hex?

wif-overun.jpg (98.38 KiB) Viewed 323 times

Thanks

[Orm]

Also just to clarify my understanding - will any overrunning unit(s) be disorganized because they have to spend 2 to get into the overrun hex?

Yes, they would become disorganized for the double MP cost to overrun the hex.

[Orm]

Could you upload a save so that we can take a closer look at it? Seems buggy to me after looking at the picture.

[jjdenver]

sure here is a save. ty.

[Centuur]

RAW:

If the result included a ‘B’, you may be able to advance some
attacking units a second hex (unless you converted the ‘B’ into an ‘R’
result).
The first hex of the advance must be the defending hex. If the
defending hex only cost 1 movement point (modified for weather),
you can advance each attacking HQ-A, ARM and MECH unit a
second hex. You can also advance MOT and CAV units a second hex
if they start and end the advance stacked with the same HQ-A, ARM
or MECH unit. Turn an advancing unit face-down if the cost of the
second hex is 2 or more movement points.

What's the weather?

[jjdenver]

ty, yes seems clear the ARM will go fd. Weather is clear. Here is an earlier save

[Orm]

I just tested the first save you posted, and I made an 'blitz move' overrun on the 4-2 ART. No problem at all.

Could it be a 'procedural' error? In how you try to do the overrun?

I just pick up the unit(s) that I want to do the advance into the combat hex, and to perform the overrun, and I move them to the unit that are to be overrun. Directly. I never advance them into the combat hex.

Edit: No, I suppose that is not it. Since just advancing into the combat hex stops any further advancement.

[Orm]

BTW, I didn't have that weirdly placed German 2-6 AT in the save that I used...

[Joseignacio]

Something related happened to me yesterday. 5.00.00.10.

I made a breaktrough and it didnt let me overrun am AA. However, I found this was correct because (unlike in your case) it was an AA (equivalent to AT) so with that stack, containining only 1 ARM I couldnt overrun because I had 1 ARM and they had one AT so no.

Then I tried to do it with another stack containing 2 ARM and it let me, but it made my two ARM disorganized although both hexes were clear and weather was fine. I know that you need to spend one more point in order to overrun a unit but I dont think this applies in Advance After Combat or any Breakthrough followed by an Overrun would result in flipping the overrunning units.

So I wonder if (in your case) for some reason, the game confounds the ART with an AA or AT and you cannot overrun with an ARM only, because of this. That would be a bug.

Then, if you could overrun it with enough ARM, or this bug was solved, there remains the matter on whether the units should be flipped.

Here are some excerpt from RAW7:

Overrunning land units
(...)
Units overrunning enemy land units pay double the normal terrain cost
to enter the hex being overrun (after weather effects). Turn them facedown if they exceed their movement allowance.

But there is the (special case of?) Advance after combat

Advancing after combat
If the combat leaves the target hex empty of enemy land units (MiF
option 6: except supply units), you can advance any of your attacking
units into the hex. Defending units can never advance
(...)
The first hex of the advance must be the defending hex. If the defending
hex only cost 1 movement point (modified for weather), you can
advance each attacking HQ-A, ARM and MECH unit a second hex. You
can also advance MOT and CAV units a second hex if they start and end
the advance stacked with the same HQ-A, ARM or MECH unit. Turn an
advancing unit face-down if the cost of the second hex is 2 or more
movement points.

But if you overrun any land unit it always costs you at least 2 and you need to flip your units, according to the general Overrun rules, unless there is some other disposition or Clarification that I am not aware of.

In our board games I have never seen flipping the overrunning units because of this rule. Is this a bug as well, or not?

[Joseignacio]

Also just to clarify my understanding - will any overrunning unit(s) be disorganized because they have to spend 2 to get into the overrun hex?

Yes, they would become disorganized for the double MP cost to overrun the hex.

Wow, hadnt read this.

[Courtenay]

Yes, as Orm quoted, all overruns in advance after combat disorganize the overrunning unit(s), always.

[jjdenver]

I just tested the first save you posted, and I made an 'blitz move' overrun on the 4-2 ART. No problem at all.

Could it be a 'procedural' error? In how you try to do the overrun?

I just pick up the unit(s) that I want to do the advance into the combat hex, and to perform the overrun, and I move them to the unit that are to be overrun. Directly. I never advance them into the combat hex.

Edit: No, I suppose that is not it. Since just advancing into the combat hex stops any further advancement.

This is exactly the problem. I was trying to hold control key and move into advance hex then a 2nd move into ART hex. Similar to moving a ground unit into multiple specific hexes during a regular ground move. I tried just putting the ARM directly on top of the ART and voila - overrun occurred. Thank you!