GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Axis #3. PTO.
Reorg.
(1) Yamamoto HQ-I (4) resupplies Ki-43-l F2, B5N2 N2, 105 mm arty div.
End of Impulse.
(2) Japan rebased Ki-27 F2 from Sasebo to Nagoya to provide fighter coverage over several factories.
(3) Also providing coverage are 2 AA div (Tokyo, Fukuoka) and two fighter wings adjacent to Fukuoka.
Reorg.
(1) Yamamoto HQ-I (4) resupplies Ki-43-l F2, B5N2 N2, 105 mm arty div.
End of Impulse.
(2) Japan rebased Ki-27 F2 from Sasebo to Nagoya to provide fighter coverage over several factories.
(3) Also providing coverage are 2 AA div (Tokyo, Fukuoka) and two fighter wings adjacent to Fukuoka.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Axis #3. Turkey. Bulgaria.
End of Impulse.
(1) Germany used their land action to establish a solid defense line in the mountains west of Ankara, Turkey.
(2) The hope is that at worse it will take the Western Allies at least 2 impulses to breakthrough enough to have a reasonable shot at taking Ankara.
(3) The hope at best is that the Western Allies will break themselves (i.e., flip) on the western defense line and keep Germany in the war (at least incompletely conquered and eligible for controlling victory cities and scoring).
End of Impulse.
(1) Germany used their land action to establish a solid defense line in the mountains west of Ankara, Turkey.
(2) The hope is that at worse it will take the Western Allies at least 2 impulses to breakthrough enough to have a reasonable shot at taking Ankara.
(3) The hope at best is that the Western Allies will break themselves (i.e., flip) on the western defense line and keep Germany in the war (at least incompletely conquered and eligible for controlling victory cities and scoring).
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Axis #3. The Western Front.
HQ Reorg.
(1) No land moves in Germany, just the following reorgs.
(2) Berlin Germany. von Rundstedt HQ-A(4) resupplies Bf 109 G-6, Bf 109 K-4.
(3) Dresden, Germany. von Leeb HQ-I (2) reorgs LXXVI Mot corps, 105 mm arty div.
HQ Reorg.
(1) No land moves in Germany, just the following reorgs.
(2) Berlin Germany. von Rundstedt HQ-A(4) resupplies Bf 109 G-6, Bf 109 K-4.
(3) Dresden, Germany. von Leeb HQ-I (2) reorgs LXXVI Mot corps, 105 mm arty div.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Impulse #252.
Weather & Actions.
(1) SHAEF planners put forth a plan for the capture of the 3 remaining objective cities in Germany/Czechoslovakia (Berlin, Prague & Munich) and factory city (Leipzig).
(2) Their initial plans have the following estimates for success (i.e., taking each given city):
(a) Berlin (+19.7A) - 100%
(b) Prague (+15.232A) - 94.7%
(c) Munich (+16.846A) - 98.7%
(d) Leipzig (+14.333A) - 100%.
(e) Overall = 100% x 94.7% x 98.7% x 100% = 93.5%.
(3) SHAEF planners caveat that their estimates are based on preliminary, quick look analysis and more careful planning should raise the estimates from Prague, Munich and overall success.
(4) Also, if possible, the Soviet offer for ground strikes by the Red Airforce should be accepted.
(5) The SHAEF planned operation calls for US O-chit w/Hodges and CW O-chit (their last) w/CAN Crerar.
(6) Allied command accepts SHAEF's recommendation operation and issues orders to the appropriate commands for it's immediate execution.
(7) The operation is given the code name, OPERATION CLEAN SWEEP
(8) A US airborne army (2 corps & 1 div) will drop in daylight on Berlin.
Weather & Actions.
(1) SHAEF planners put forth a plan for the capture of the 3 remaining objective cities in Germany/Czechoslovakia (Berlin, Prague & Munich) and factory city (Leipzig).
(2) Their initial plans have the following estimates for success (i.e., taking each given city):
(a) Berlin (+19.7A) - 100%
(b) Prague (+15.232A) - 94.7%
(c) Munich (+16.846A) - 98.7%
(d) Leipzig (+14.333A) - 100%.
(e) Overall = 100% x 94.7% x 98.7% x 100% = 93.5%.
(3) SHAEF planners caveat that their estimates are based on preliminary, quick look analysis and more careful planning should raise the estimates from Prague, Munich and overall success.
(4) Also, if possible, the Soviet offer for ground strikes by the Red Airforce should be accepted.
(5) The SHAEF planned operation calls for US O-chit w/Hodges and CW O-chit (their last) w/CAN Crerar.
(6) Allied command accepts SHAEF's recommendation operation and issues orders to the appropriate commands for it's immediate execution.
(7) The operation is given the code name, OPERATION CLEAN SWEEP
(8) A US airborne army (2 corps & 1 div) will drop in daylight on Berlin.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Ground Strikes.
Balkans & Turkey.
(1) 4 ground strike missions, involving 5 Soviet bomber wings vs 5 ground corps.
(2) Achieved only 1 vs 2.4 expected flips.
(3) Soviet Airforce underperformed by -1.4.
(4) The Soviet Airforce in the Balkans better step it up if they don't want the lions share of blame if the Western Allies are unable to knock Turkey out of the war this turn.
(5) The Soviet general in charge of the Soviet Airforce in the Balkans isn't worried that much about blame from the Western Allies; but is very much concern if any is to come from Kremlin; especially Stalin.
(6) So far, both the Kremlin and Stalin have been silent on the underperformance, which worries the general even more.
Balkans & Turkey.
(1) 4 ground strike missions, involving 5 Soviet bomber wings vs 5 ground corps.
(2) Achieved only 1 vs 2.4 expected flips.
(3) Soviet Airforce underperformed by -1.4.
(4) The Soviet Airforce in the Balkans better step it up if they don't want the lions share of blame if the Western Allies are unable to knock Turkey out of the war this turn.
(5) The Soviet general in charge of the Soviet Airforce in the Balkans isn't worried that much about blame from the Western Allies; but is very much concern if any is to come from Kremlin; especially Stalin.
(6) So far, both the Kremlin and Stalin have been silent on the underperformance, which worries the general even more.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Ground Strikes.
Balkans & Turkey.
(1/4) Sofia, Bulgaria. (2/4) Turkey 70, 60. (3/4) Ankara, Turkey. (4/4) Turkey 67,58.
Balkans & Turkey.
(1/4) Sofia, Bulgaria. (2/4) Turkey 70, 60. (3/4) Ankara, Turkey. (4/4) Turkey 67,58.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Ground Strikes.
The Western Front.
(1) 2 ground strike missions, one by the Western Allies and one by the Soviet Airforce.
(2) Each against a single target, which the both managed to flip.
(3) Well, the Western Allies strike was initial against 2 Luftwaffe fighter (fighter/bomber) airbases.
(4) But fighters at one base intercepted limited the ground strike to (only) one airbase. (1/2) Soviet Airforce. Dresden, Germany. (2/2) RAF & USAAF. Berlin, Germany.
The Western Front.
(1) 2 ground strike missions, one by the Western Allies and one by the Soviet Airforce.
(2) Each against a single target, which the both managed to flip.
(3) Well, the Western Allies strike was initial against 2 Luftwaffe fighter (fighter/bomber) airbases.
(4) But fighters at one base intercepted limited the ground strike to (only) one airbase. (1/2) Soviet Airforce. Dresden, Germany. (2/2) RAF & USAAF. Berlin, Germany.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Asian Theater.
China.
Land Combat. China 82,133.
(1) 79% PWIN, 52% PNL.
(2) 1st & 2nd Nationalist cav corps vs Chengtu Wld (isolated & flipped).
(3) LC (+8A) RES: No FOR, 2D10=12, LCR=8+12=20 -> Wld eliminated, 2nd NAT cav destroyed, 1st Cav survives & remains organized. End of Impulse.
China.
Land Combat. China 82,133.
(1) 79% PWIN, 52% PNL.
(2) 1st & 2nd Nationalist cav corps vs Chengtu Wld (isolated & flipped).
(3) LC (+8A) RES: No FOR, 2D10=12, LCR=8+12=20 -> Wld eliminated, 2nd NAT cav destroyed, 1st Cav survives & remains organized. End of Impulse.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Balkans. Turkey.
Land Combat & Support.
Combat Logs.
Land Combat & Support.
Combat Logs.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Balkans. Turkey.
Land Combat & Support.
(1/4) Yerevan, USSR. (2/4) Turkey 68.61. (3/4) Turkey 70,63.
Land Combat & Support.
(1/4) Yerevan, USSR. (2/4) Turkey 68.61. (3/4) Turkey 70,63.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Balkans. Turkey.
Land Combat & Support.
(4/4) Sofia, Bulgaria. End of Impulse.
Turkey. Balkans & Turkey.
Land Combat & Support.
(4/4) Sofia, Bulgaria. End of Impulse.
Turkey. Balkans & Turkey.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Western Front.
Land Combat & Support.
(1/4) Berlin, Germany. (2/4) Prague, Czechoslovakia.
Land Combat & Support.
(1/4) Berlin, Germany. (2/4) Prague, Czechoslovakia.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Western Front.
Land Combat & Support.
(3/4) Leipzig, Germany. (4/4) Munich, Germany.
Land Combat & Support.
(3/4) Leipzig, Germany. (4/4) Munich, Germany.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #4. Western Front.
End of Impulse.
End of Impulse.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Axis #5. Impulse #253.
Weather & Actions.
(1) To be continued ... tomorrow ...
Weather & Actions.
(1) To be continued ... tomorrow ...
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #6. Impulse #254.
End of Turn Check (Previous Impulse, Axis #5)
(1) End of turn D10(1)=10 -> turn continues, die gods empathic (for now) about continuing -> Allied #6.
Current Standings.
(2) The conquest of Germany is assured this turn.
(3) However; the issue is in doubt whether that conquest will be incomplete or complete.
(4) For the Democratic Allied, an incomplete conquest would be a minor annoyance, as they will still be the overall winner by a large margin.
(5) However; for the Soviets the difference between an incomplete and complete conquest is the difference between finishing 3rd behind Germany or finishing 2nd.
(6) Given that Germany is their hated enemy, this would be a bitter end to the war in Europe for the Soviets for sure.
(7) From a counterfactual perspective this would be considered a negotiated peace between the Western Allies and Germany and one that was "forced" on the Soviet Union to accept.
(8) Such a situation, as put forth earlier, would likely lead to an early start of the Cold War and raising (or is dropping?) of the iron curtain.
(9) Though in this counterfactual world the iron curtain would not include "East Germany", as there is/will be no East Germany because all of Germany and the majority of Czechoslovakia were liberated and now controlled by the Western Allies.
(10) But, in this alternate reality, the Middle East (Persia & Iraq) is Soviet controlled, which has implications which are beyond the scope of this counterfactual to pursue.
(11) And Turkey is controlled by both, so there would likely be a West & East Turkey controlled by the Western Allies & USSR (respectively).
(12) In looking at how best to proceed for the allies, honestly the US started losing focus on their, and their allies, primary mission.
(13) That mission is the capture of as many objective cities as possible by the end of this turn without being reckless.
(14) That last part, without being reckless, is a caveat that I added within the spirit of this counterfactual.
(15) Implicit to that caveat, also in the spirit of this counterfactual, is that what the Western Allies consider reckless is much more cautious than what the Soviets do.
(16) So getting the US focus back on mission, the Western Allies have a plan (approved & supported by the USSR) that they believe has a fair chance of knocking Germany out of the war completely (i.e., capture Ankara).
(17) Also, this plan has a fair chance of liberating Chungking, which will be 1 more VP for Democratic Allied side.
(18) At best the Soviets are ambivalent and at worse silently against this second part but so be it from the Democratic Allied side.
(19) With full Soviet air support (i.e., ground strike support), the allies give it 50/50 that Ankara will be captured before turn's end.
(20) Note, that with the axis surely passing next impulse, there's only a 70% chance that the allies with get another impulse after this one.
(21) So most of that 50/50 is wrapped up in not getting another impulse (i.e., a minimum of 2 allied impulses are needed to capture Ankara).
(22) The Democratic Allied also give it 50/50 or maybe 60/40 that Chungking can be liberated this turn.
(22) It's so tempting for the US to go ahead full speed with strategic bombing of Japan including moving their carriers, heavy cruiser and modern battleships to the Pacific.
(23) But now is not the time.
(24) The time is to stay mission focused!
(25) And that's what the allied actions below represent.
(26) Also, look for MacArthur HQ-I being railed into China for additional FTC to base US heavy bombers if the 10% chance ground strike vs Chunking fails.
(27) If it doesn't; i.e., succeeds, Chunking may be liberate this impulse. Weather & Actions.
End of Turn Check (Previous Impulse, Axis #5)
(1) End of turn D10(1)=10 -> turn continues, die gods empathic (for now) about continuing -> Allied #6.
Current Standings.
(2) The conquest of Germany is assured this turn.
(3) However; the issue is in doubt whether that conquest will be incomplete or complete.
(4) For the Democratic Allied, an incomplete conquest would be a minor annoyance, as they will still be the overall winner by a large margin.
(5) However; for the Soviets the difference between an incomplete and complete conquest is the difference between finishing 3rd behind Germany or finishing 2nd.
(6) Given that Germany is their hated enemy, this would be a bitter end to the war in Europe for the Soviets for sure.
(7) From a counterfactual perspective this would be considered a negotiated peace between the Western Allies and Germany and one that was "forced" on the Soviet Union to accept.
(8) Such a situation, as put forth earlier, would likely lead to an early start of the Cold War and raising (or is dropping?) of the iron curtain.
(9) Though in this counterfactual world the iron curtain would not include "East Germany", as there is/will be no East Germany because all of Germany and the majority of Czechoslovakia were liberated and now controlled by the Western Allies.
(10) But, in this alternate reality, the Middle East (Persia & Iraq) is Soviet controlled, which has implications which are beyond the scope of this counterfactual to pursue.
(11) And Turkey is controlled by both, so there would likely be a West & East Turkey controlled by the Western Allies & USSR (respectively).
(12) In looking at how best to proceed for the allies, honestly the US started losing focus on their, and their allies, primary mission.
(13) That mission is the capture of as many objective cities as possible by the end of this turn without being reckless.
(14) That last part, without being reckless, is a caveat that I added within the spirit of this counterfactual.
(15) Implicit to that caveat, also in the spirit of this counterfactual, is that what the Western Allies consider reckless is much more cautious than what the Soviets do.
(16) So getting the US focus back on mission, the Western Allies have a plan (approved & supported by the USSR) that they believe has a fair chance of knocking Germany out of the war completely (i.e., capture Ankara).
(17) Also, this plan has a fair chance of liberating Chungking, which will be 1 more VP for Democratic Allied side.
(18) At best the Soviets are ambivalent and at worse silently against this second part but so be it from the Democratic Allied side.
(19) With full Soviet air support (i.e., ground strike support), the allies give it 50/50 that Ankara will be captured before turn's end.
(20) Note, that with the axis surely passing next impulse, there's only a 70% chance that the allies with get another impulse after this one.
(21) So most of that 50/50 is wrapped up in not getting another impulse (i.e., a minimum of 2 allied impulses are needed to capture Ankara).
(22) The Democratic Allied also give it 50/50 or maybe 60/40 that Chungking can be liberated this turn.
(22) It's so tempting for the US to go ahead full speed with strategic bombing of Japan including moving their carriers, heavy cruiser and modern battleships to the Pacific.
(23) But now is not the time.
(24) The time is to stay mission focused!
(25) And that's what the allied actions below represent.
(26) Also, look for MacArthur HQ-I being railed into China for additional FTC to base US heavy bombers if the 10% chance ground strike vs Chunking fails.
(27) If it doesn't; i.e., succeeds, Chunking may be liberate this impulse. Weather & Actions.
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
An interesting question that I hope you experts can/will answer.
I know that the complete conquest of Germany requires the capture of Ankara.
However; is the capture of Turin, Italy and the 2 factories controlled by Germany ALSO required?
I know that the complete conquest of Germany requires the capture of Ankara.
However; is the capture of Turin, Italy and the 2 factories controlled by Germany ALSO required?
Ronnie
Re: GW Counterfactual Take 3.
Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. Allied #6. Asian Theater.
Combat Logs. Ground Strike. Chungking, China. Land Combat.
(1/2) Chengchow, China. (2/2) China 75,137.
Combat Logs. Ground Strike. Chungking, China. Land Combat.
(1/2) Chengchow, China. (2/2) China 75,137.
Ronnie