Coming Fury Scenario Comments

[pzpat]

(In response to Gil.R.)
     Speaking of Jackson and barracks, I set Jackson to build a corps container and on the same turn mustered.  Jackson went into 3 turns of unrest.  When it came out it showed corps - 4.  The next turn it showed corps - 5, and still hasn't built anything. Is this a glitch or will it straighten out?  Can't send anything because the computer isn't hooked up to the internet yet.   

[ericbabe]

Strange!  I'll take a look at that.

[spruce]

question = do you see when you kill an enemy general in the event rapport. I play instant battles and quick battles most of the time ?

[sadja]

ORIGINAL: spruce

question = do you see when you kill an enemy general in the event rapport. I play instant battles and quick battles most of the time ?

Yes,

I managed to kill both Grant and Meade in my last battle. Grant got caught in a fight with a fresh high quality unit which caused 500+ casualties and Meade was killed by a unit that had sharpshooter atribute with enfields. They were shown on event report.

For quick battles I would suggest that in the battle reports on the stategic menu show not only how many losses and weapons lost ect. that it also show the generals killed. That way quick combat can show generals killed. It already shows generals captured in HW

Does the loss of a general effect the morale of either side? Sometimes it can encourage or discourage either side.

[spruce]

I played quite a few games of FOF during the last days and I must say I only lost one of the Hill generals. And not one Union guy was killed.
 
I play 75% of my battles on instant battle and 20% on quick battle and 5% on detailed battle ...
 
how do you kill a general - by unleashing some gigantic meteor on top of his head ? Is this option disabled when played instant battle ?

[ericbabe]

We seem to have a wide range of opinion on how frequently generals should be killed in quick battle / instant battle.  High ranking generals cannot be killed in quick combat: 4*/5* are completely immune.  Generals are "hit" in quick battle when the attacker gets a modified 10 on the attack, the defender gets a modified 1, and a 15% check is made.  A "hit" general below 4-stars has only 5/16 chance of being killed outright, is otherwise only wounded.

We are considering a change that would make 1*/2* more mortal than the current system allows for.

Many generals were killed in action during the Civil War -- probably not by meteors.  This list I have courtesy of civilwarhome.com is:


[center][font="arial"]ARMY COMMANDERS [/font][/center] General Albert Sydney Johnston Killed at Shiloh. [/b] [center][font="arial"]CORPS COMMANDERS[/font][/center] Lieutenant-General Thomas J. Jackson Killed at Chancellorsville.
Lieutenant-General Leonidas Polk , Killed at  Pine Mountain.
Lieutenant-General Ambrose P. Hill, Killed at Fall of Petersburg. [/b] [center][font="arial"]DIVISION COMMANDERS [/font][/center] Major-General William D. Pender Killed at Gettysburg.
Major-General J. E. B. Stewart, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Major-General W. H. Walker, Killed at Atlanta.
Major-General Robert E. Rodes, Killed at Opequon.
Major-General Stephen D. Ramseur, Killed at Cedar Creek.
Major-General Patrick R. Cleburne, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General John Pegram, Killed at Hatcher's Run. [/b] [center][font="arial"]BRIGADE COMMANDERS [/font][/center] Brigadier-General Robert S. Garnett Killed at  Cheat Mountain.
Brigadier-General Barnard E. Bee, Killed at  First Bull Run.
Brigadier-General Francis S. Bartow, Killed at  First Bull Run.
Brigadier-General Felix K. Zollicoffer, Killed at  Mill Springs.
Brigadier-General Ben. McCulloch, Killed at  Pea Ridge.
Brigadier-General James Mcintosh, Killed at  Pea Ridge
Brigadier-General William Y. Slack, Killed at  Pea Ridge.
Brigadier-General Adley H. Gladden, Killed at  Shiloh.
Brigadier-General Robert Hatton, Killed at  Fair Oaks.
Brigadier-General Turner Ashby, Killed at  Harrisonburg.
Brigadier-General Richard Griffith, Killed at  Savage Station.
Brigadier-General Charles S. Winder, Killed at  Cedar Mountain.
Brigadier-General Samuel Garland, Jr, Killed at  South Mountain.
Brigadier-General George B. Anderson, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General L. O'B. Branch, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General William E. Starke, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General Henry Little, Killed at Iuka.
Brigadier-General Thomas R. Cobb, Killed at Fredericksburg.
Brigadier-General Maxcy Gregg, Killed at Fredericksburg.
Brigadier-General James E. Rains, Killed at Stone's River.
Brigadier-General Roger W. Hanson, Killed at Stone's River.
Brigadier-General E. D. Tracy, Killed at Port Gibson.
Brigadier-General E. F. Paxton, Killed at Chancellorsville.
Brigadier-General Lloyd Tilghman, Killed at Champion's Hill.
Brigadier-General Martin E. Green, Killed at Vicksburg.
Brigadier-General William Barksdale, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Lewis Armistead, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Richard B. Garnett, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Paul J. Semmes, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General J. J. Pettigrew, Killed at Falling Waters.
Brigadier-General Preston Smith , Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General Benjamin H. Helm, Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General James Deshler, Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General Carnot Posey, Killed at Bristoe Station.
Brigadier-General Alfred Mouton, Killed at Sabine Cross Roads.
Brigadier. General Thomas Green, Killed at Pleasant Hill.
Brigadier-General W. R. Scurry, Killed at Jenkins Ferry.
Brigadier-General John M. Jones, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General Micah Jenkins, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General L. A. Stafford, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General Abner Perrin, Killed at Spotsylvania.
Brigadier-General Julius Daniel, Killed at Spotsylvania.
Brigadier-General James B. Gordon, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Brigadier-General George Doles, Killed at Bethesda Church.
Brigadier-General W. E. Jones, Killed at Piedmont.
Brigadier-General C. H. Stevens, Killed at Peach Tree Creek.
Brigadier-General Samuel Benton, Killed at Ezra Church.
Brigadier-General John R. Chambliss, Jr, Killed at Deep Bottom.
Brigadier-General J. C. Saunders, Killed at Weldon Railroad.
Brigadier-General Robert H. Anderson, Killed at Jonesboro.
Brigadier-General John Morgan, Killed at Greenville, Tenn.
Brigadier-General Archibald C. Godwin, Killed at Opequon.
Brigadier-General John Dunnovant, Killed at Vaughn Road.
Brigadier-General John Gregg " Darbytown Road.
Brigadier-General Stephen Elliott, Jr., Killed at Petersburg.
Brigadier-General Victor J. Girardey, Killed at Petersburg.
Brigadier-General Archibald Gracie, Jr. Killed at Petersb'g Trenches.
Brigadier-General John Adams, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General Oscar F. Strahl, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General S. R. Gist, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General H. B. Granberry, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General James Dearing, Killed at High Bridge.
[/b]
[/b][center]Killed in Action--(38).[/i][/center] Brig.-General Thomas Williams, killed Aug. 5, 1862, at Battle of Baton Rouge, La.
Brig -General Robert L. McCook, killed Aug. 6, 1862, near Dechard, Tenn., by guerillas.
Brig.-General Henry Bohlen, killed Aug. 22, 1862, at Freeman's Ford, Rappahannock River, Va.
Major-General Philip Kearney, killed Sept. 1, 1862, at Chantilly, Va.
Major-General Isaac I. Stevens, killed Sept. 1, 1862, at Chantilly, Va.
Brig.-General Pleasant A. Hackelman, killed Oct. 3, 1862, at Corinth, Miss.
Brig.-General James S. Jackson, killed Oct. 8, 1862, at Perryville, Ky.
Brig.-General Wm. R. Terrill, killed Oct. 8, 1862, at Perryville, Ky.
Brig.-General Conrad Feger Jackson, killed Dec. 13, 1862, at Fredericksburg, Va.
Brig.-General Joshua W. Sill, killed Dec. 31, 1862, at Stone River, Tenn.
Major-General Hiram G. Berry, killed May 2, 1863, at Chancellorsville, Va.
Major-General John F. Reynolds, killed July 1. 1863, at Gettysburg, Pa.
Brig.-General Stephen W. Weed, killed July 2, 1863, at Gettysburg, Pa.
Brevet Major-General S. K. Zook, killed July 2, 1863, at Gettysburg, Pa.
Brevet Brig.-General A. Van Horn Ellis, Colonel 124th N. Y. Volunteers, killed July 2, 1863, at Gettysburg, Pa.
Brevet Brig.-General Lewis Benedict, Colonel 162d N. Y. Volunteers, killed April 9, 1864, at Port Hudson, La.
Brevet Major-General Alex. Hays, U. S. Volunteers, killed May 5, 1864, at the Wilderness, Va.
Brevet Major-General James S. Wadsworth, U. S. Volunteers, killed May 6, 1864, at the Wilderness, Va.
Major-General John Sedgwick, U. S. Volunteers, killed May 9, 1864, at Spottsylvania Court-house, Va.
Brig.-General Thomas G. Stevenson, U. S. Volunteers, killed May 10, 1864, at Spottsylvania Court-house, Va.
Brig.-General James C. Rice, U. S. Volunteers, killed May 10, 1864, at Laurel Hill, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General Henry H. Giesy, Major 46th Ohio Volunteers, killed May 28, 1864, at Dallas, Ga.
Brevet Brig.-General John McConihe, Colonel 169th N. Y. Volunteers, killed June l, 1864, at Cold Harbor, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General Thomas W. Humphrey, Colonel 95th Illinois Volunteers, killed June 10, 1864, at Grentown, Mo.
Brevet Brig.-General Wm. Blaisdell, Colonel 11th Massachusetts Volunteers, killed June 23, 1864, before Petersburg, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General George A. Cobham, Jr., Colonel 111th Pennsylvania Volunteers, killed July 20, 1864, at Peach-tree Creek, Ga.
Major-General James B. McPherson, U. S. Volunteers, killed July 22, 1864, before Atlanta, Ga.
Brevet Brig.-General Griffin A. Stedman, Colonel 11th Connecticut Volunteers, killed Aug. 6, 1864.
Brevet Brig.-General George E. Elstner, Lt.-Colonel 50th Ohio Volunteers, killed Aug. 8, 1864, before Atlanta, Ga.
Brevet Major-General David A. Russell, U. S. Volunteers, killed Sept. 19, 1864, at Winchester, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General Frank H. Peck, Lt.-Colonel 12th Connecticut Volunteers, killed Sept. 19, 1864, at Winchester, Va.
Brig.-General Hiram Burnham, U. S. Volunteers, killed Sept. 30, 1864, at Chopin's Farm, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General George D. Wells, Colonel 34th Massachusetts Volunteers, killed Oct. 13, 1864, at Cedar Creek, Va.
Brig.-General Daniel D. Bidwell, U. S. Volunteers, killed Oct. 19, 1864, at Cedar Creek, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General Sylvester G. Hill, Colonel 35th Iowa Volunteers, killed Dec. 15, 1864, at Nashville, Tenn.
Brevet Major-General Frederick Winthrop, Colonel 5th New York Veteran Volunteers, killed April 1, 1865, at Five Forks, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General George W. Gowan, Colonel 48th Pennsylvania Volunteers, killed April 2, 1865, near Petersburg, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General Theodore Read, Major and Asst. Adjutant-General Volunteers, killed April 6, 1865, at High Bridge, Va. [center]Died of Wounds Received in Action--(29).[/i][/center] Brig.-General Wm. H. L. Wallace, U. S. Volunteers, died April 10, 1862, at Savannah, Tenn., of wounds received at Shiloh, Tenn.
Brig.-General George W. Taylor, U. S. Volunteers, died Aug. 31, 1862, at Alexandria, Va., of wounds received near Cub Run, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General Thornton F. Broadhead, Colonel 1st Michigan Cavalry, died Sept. 2, 1862, of wounds received at Bull Run, Va.
Major-General Jesse L. Reno, U. S. Volunteers, died Sept. 14, 1862, of wounds received in battle of South Mountain, Md.
Major-General Joseph K. F. Mansfield, U. S. Volunteers, died Sept. 18, 1862, of wounds received in battle of Antietam, Md.
Brig.-General Isaac P. Rodman, U. S. Volunteers, died Sept. 30, 1862, of wounds received in battle of Antietam, Md.
Major-General Israel B. Richardson, U. S. Volunteers, died Nov. 3, 1862, at Sharpsburg, Md., of wounds received in battle of Antietam, Md.
Brig.-General George D. Bayard, U. S. Volunteers, died Dec. 14, 1862, of wounds received at the battle of Fredericksburg, Va.
Major-General Amiel W, Whipple, U. S. Volunteers, died May 7, 1563, at Washington, D.C., of wounds received at Chancellorsville, Md.
Brig.-General Edmund Kirby, U. S. Volunteers, died May 28, 1863, at Washington, D. C., of wounds received at Chancellorsville, Md.
Brevet Brig.-General George H. Ward, Colonel 15th Massachusetts Volunteers, died July 2, 1863, of wounds received at Gettysburg, Pa.
Brevet Brig.-General Paul Joseph Revere, Colonel 20th Massachusetts Volunteers, died July 5, 1863, of wounds received at Gettysburg, Pa.
Brevet Brig.-General Louis R. Francine, Colonel 7th New Jersey Volunteers, died July 16, 1863, of wounds received at Gettysburg, Pa.
Major-General George C. Strong, U. S. Volunteers, died July 30, 1863, of wounds received in the assault on Fort Wagner, S. C.
Brig.-General Wm. H. Lytle, U. S. Volunteers, died Sept. 20, 1863, of wounds received at Chickamauga, Ga.
Brig.-General William P. Sanders, U. S. Volunteers, died Nov. 19, 1863, of wounds received before Knoxville, Tenn.
Brevet Brig.-General Wm. N. Green, Lt.-Colonel 173d New York Volunteers, died May 14, 1864, of wounds received in action.
Brevet Brig.-General Arthur H. Dutton, Colonel 21st Connecticut Volunteers, died June 4, 1864, of wounds received in action.
Brevet Brig.-General Wm. H. Sackett, Colonel 9th New York Cavalry Volunteers, died June 10, 1864, of wounds received in action.
Brevet Brig.-General George L. Presscott, Colonel 32d Massachusetts Volunteers, died June 19, 1864, of wounds received in action.
Brig.-General Charles G. Harker, U. S. Volunteers, died June 27, 1864, of wounds received before Marietta, Ga.
Brig.-General Samuel A. Rice, U. S. Volunteers, died July 6, 1864, of wounds received at Jenkins' Ferry, Ark.
Brevet Brig.-General James A. Mulligan, Colonel 23d Illinois Volunteers, died July 26, 1864, of wounds received at Winchester, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General Henry Lyman Patten, Major 20th Massachusetts Volunteers, died September 10, 1864, of wounds received in action.
Brevet Brig.-General Willoughby Babcock, Lieut.-Colonel 75th New York Volunteers, died October 6, 1864, of wounds received in action.
Brevet Brig.-General Alexander Gardiner, Colonel 14th New Hampshire Volunteers, died October 7, 1864, of wounds received at Opequan, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General J. Howard Kitching, Colonel 6th New York Volunteer Artillery, died Jan. 10, 1865, of wounds received in action.
Brevet Major-General Thomas A. Smyth, U. S. Volunteers, died April 9, 1865, of wounds received near Farmville, Va.
Brevet Brig.-General Francis Washburn, Colonel 4th Massachusetts Cavalry, died April 22, 1865, of wounds received in action.

[spruce]

lots of meteors then during those days. [:D][;)]

Honestly - I have fought battles that easely reach 250.000 casualties (added up during all the battles for CSA and USA) and only one general got killed (D.H. Hill).

?

but like I said, most often I play instant battle

[Gil R.]

ORIGINAL: spruce

lots of meteors then during those days. [:D][;)]

Honestly - I have fought battles that easely reach 250.000 casualties (added up during all the battles for CSA and USA) and only one general got killed (D.H. Hill).

?

but like I said, most often I play instant battle

Well, among those 250,000 men were a lot of colonels and lieutenant colonels who would have become generals had they lived, so that sort of counts. Doesn't it?

[spruce]

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

ORIGINAL: spruce

lots of meteors then during those days. [:D][;)]

Honestly - I have fought battles that easely reach 250.000 casualties (added up during all the battles for CSA and USA) and only one general got killed (D.H. Hill).

?

but like I said, most often I play instant battle

Well, among those 250,000 men were a lot of colonels and lieutenant colonels who would have become generals had they lived, so that sort of counts. Doesn't it?

ahum, that's not really the point - I'm trying to kill some enemy generals - but I don't see this happening. I even had "sharpshooter" upgrades and sharpshooter attachment to many of my brigades.

Sometimes dead generals had a great effect on the course of war, Jackson f.e.

[dude]

I've noticed in most of my detailed battles of decent size (10+ units on a side [about 2 divisions worth]) I generally see at least one AI general killed.  Frequently more.  On the other hand, I've made it thought two years (three times) without losing a single general on my side.  I've felt that the number of AI generals I've been killing has been about right.  I have to admit though that I've felt very odd that I haven't lost any.
 
My kills have come from plenty of units without the sharpshooter skill too.  Especially early on before I purchase it for any of my units.  In some very lmoderate to arge engagements I've seen two to three AI generals bite the dust.
 
The only Quick Battles I do are the ones forced on me by the game.  I've use Detailed every other time.  I've not seen anyone die in a QB... but then they are very small engagements.
 
The worst I've seen so far was an engagement between two forces of ~ 180,000 each.  I lost no genrals as usual but managed to pick off six AI generals... half of them as their forces were routing.  Not to mention the others that managed to get captured.
 
I'm not advicating one way or the other.  I think my kills of AI generals has felt about right while my own deaths has been non-existant.  I'm just chalking it up to the roll of the dice...
 
Dude

[dude]

Oh, the other thing that just came to mind was to consider that we really don't have as many generals involved as there really were at times.  So if you plan on upping the number of generals killed you would need to simulate more generals involved at any one time.
 
I've had plenty of engagements the size of Gettysburg but no where near the number of generals that where involved.  So should I have the same number of dead generals that Gettysburg produced?
 
Becareful what you wish for.... [;)]
 
 

[Erik Rutins]

Eric,

Are only the three "displayed" general in QC vulnerable to casualties or is any involved general vulnerable? Based on what you posted, it looks like the current chance is about right for 3 stars, should be doubled to 30% for 2 stars and tripled or quadrupled for 1 stars.

Regards,

- Erik

[spruce]

my remark about "too few casualties for generals" comes from instant battles and quick battles. Remember that.
 
During my "CSA is losing it" campaign I had 2 corps and 1 division to face 2 Union armies. On my side I had about 20 generals minimum involved. Those containers had been fighting from middle 1862 to late 1863 - in total each container fought roughly 12 battles. So that means I had my generals entering 12*20 ~ 250 battles.
 
I'm using a wide variety of 3stars, 2 stars and one stars in my containers. That means f.e. one corps has 1 3star general - 2 2star and 4one star generals.
 
When I face the enemy (quick battle) I'm facing many 4star and 3star generals.
 
Like I said - during 250 battles not one of my guys goes down, and neither of the enemy generals. This might be related to the remark Erik Rutins has made.
 
Something feels reilly weird and it might be linked to instant battle and quick battle calculus.

[Gil R.]

Based on this feedback it looks like we should definitely increase the odds of losing generals in quick combat and instant combat. Spruce's evidence is pretty convincing.

(By the way, my comment about colonels and lieutenant colonels was a joke. Whenever I write something that seems idiotic it means either that I am joking or that I am being an idiot. The former is more common than the latter.)

[Drex]

There were definite instances of general officers being killed or wounded by sharpshooters/snipers so could there be a tactic to purchase where there is a greater chance of killing or wounded the commanding officer due to special forces groups out there specifically to kill these guys?

[Jaypea]

All, I have to say is that the forums are much more of a pleasure to read in the past few days.  I also noticed the atmosphere has been much more congenial.  Bravo, lets hope it stays this way [;)]
 
 

[Mike13z50]

I've only had one general wounded in HW, but many killed. I'm not sure of the killed to wounded ratio in the ACW, but since the game has a model for wounded generals to heal or die perhaps you could increase the odds of wounding more.

[ericbabe]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Are only the three "displayed" general in QC vulnerable to casualties or is any involved general vulnerable? Based on what you posted, it looks like the current chance is about right for 3 stars, should be doubled to 30% for 2 stars and tripled or quadrupled for 1 stars.

Yes -- I'm considering changing it to allow any general to be killed though.

[ericbabe]

I've thought that generals should be wounded more too.

[spruce]

(By the way, my comment about colonels and lieutenant colonels was a joke. Whenever I write something that seems idiotic it means either that I am joking or that I am being an idiot. The former is more common than the latter.)

well I didn't get that joke, anyhow my generals won't be laughing anymore when the new patch comes out - at least the one-star and two-star guys not.