Another Question About Odd Game Mechanics

[GamesaurusRex]

I can't explain it either, but it happened... Just Ask my opponent Wheat who is posting about this and other issues on Ageod's forum. This sort of result reduces this game to something similar to a game of RISK.

[Captain_Orso]

If this happened with any regularity or even occasionally I would agree wholeheartedly, but I've never seen anything even remotely similar to this.

Do you still have that turn and the previous in your saves?

[GamesaurusRex]

To Symple:
The use of the term "Grognard" in wargaming circles derives from the French word used in the time of the Napoleonic wars to describe certain soldiers in La Grande Armee, specifically older veteran members of the "Old Guard" and other veteran units that "grumbled" complaints about the procedures, directives, and plans used to pursue the war and battles. Their long term military exposure and hard earned practical battle experience gave them a definite opinion regarding how all military matters "should be performed" and how all battles "should be carried out". When higher command officers issued what "Les Grognards" perceived to be stupid directives, they voiced their opinions by "grumbling".

Trust me, you are a Grognard, (You said:"I live for wargames" ). And although the term generally implies a wargamer that demands infinite detail with absolute correctness in all details in the wargames they play, your response tells me that you know this, but you are a gamer that makes allowances for games that deliver an "event experience" rather than a "simulation". I agree with you that such games can be entertaining,(see JUNTA by West End Games for example), but my dissatisfaction with CW2 is that it sells itself as a simulation... which, due to the excessively random combat results the seniority mechanism generates, it quite clearly is not. But you are right, with some cigars, a few bottles of scotch or vodka, and six opponents, JUNTA can provide a hell of a game experience.

To Captain_Orso:
This was not a freak event. It occurred multiple times and caused both the South and North (in separate battles) to abandon major entrenched positions or launch suicidal attacks on major enemy entrenched positions resulting in mass casualties almost every time. This occurs mostly when a high seniority general in one region retreats into and adjacent region and, because his seniority outranks the command in the adjacent region, causes the force in that adjacent region to either retreat or attack the enemy in that adjacent region. What puzzles me is why the retreating general from the first region can order an attack in the adjacent region, when it appears the game is supposed to reset the retreating general to "passive" mode when he retreats. The really ridiculous thing about this is that the game resets the retreating general to "inactive" status upon retreat and this causes massive combat losses if he subsequently outranks seniority and launches an attack in the next region.

[Captain_Orso]

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
To Captain_Orso:
This was not a freak event. It occurred multiple times and caused both the South and North (in separate battles) to abandon major entrenched positions or launch suicidal attacks on major enemy entrenched positions resulting in mass casualties almost every time. This occurs mostly when a high seniority general in one region retreats into and adjacent region and, because his seniority outranks the command in the adjacent region, causes the force in that adjacent region to either retreat or attack the enemy in that adjacent region. What puzzles me is why the retreating general from the first region can order an attack in the adjacent region, when it appears the game is supposed to reset the retreating general to "passive" mode when he retreats. The really ridiculous thing about this is that the game resets the retreating general to "inactive" status upon retreat and this causes massive combat losses if he subsequently outranks seniority and launches an attack in the next region.

Do you have the game saves? Getting to the root if this issue is only possible by examining the game files.

I have been playing AACW and CW2 for 6 years and I've never seen anything close to what you are describing.

A leader without combat troops in his stack cannot initiate an attack even if he is the highest ranking leader in the region.

A wounded leader is moved to a nearby city-location to inside the city alone--no units or elements accompany him. Even if he were to maintain OP during that turn, it would make no difference, because a lone leader, regardless of posture, cannot initiate combat.

If a stack retreats through the influence of an enemy stack in the region from which it is retreating--wither before battle has started or through battle affects--it is changed to PP (Passive Posture) and cannot cause a battle.

From your descriptions alone I cannot imagine what is occurring.

[gw15]

I'm going to chime in here about the comment about CWII has problems but could be a great game. I love the game presentation and how the moves and forces interact. Reminds me so much of War between the States board game. Published by SPI maybe?
But as an historical game it is not. Every time I play the North PBEM I get whipped up on because the South starts out in the first year with huge ironclad naval forces and stacks that are 3 to 4 times as strong as the North in every theater. With me playing the North the game doesn't last too long as the South is just way to strong. Not a very good simulation of the actual war.
Perhaps the good Captain can share how in the heck the North can survive the first year? I know many players have a house rule that the South is not allowed to attack DC or move too far north to try and at least make it interesting but players shouldn't have to do that.

[altipueri]

As a long time player and loser at AGEOD games I say just get used to it or play a different game.

As for historical outcomes. Look at a very contemporary example (August 2015, France). What is the chance in a "historical" computer game of three unarmed guys running the length of a railway carriage towards a terrorist armed with a AK 47, pistol and knife - and the terrorist scores zero?

Napoleon thought he had 90% chance of victory at Waterloo. Bad day for the bookies.

[Poopyhead]

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.p ... nse-of-D-C

Boomerang, I was the major proponent of the blitz D.C. strategy. I'm sorry if this has spoiled the game for you. If you put a brig in the Potomac on Blue/Green and build a stockade in Montgomery and Carrol MD with a good garrison, this should slow down any CSA army long enough for the Union to survive into '62 and beyond.

Good luck!

[Captain_Orso]

Besides what Poopyhead...... [8|] aka Gray Fox [;)] has posted in his link above, there are some things you can do to give the CS player a run for his money early in the war.

Make your economic advantages work for you. Put as many transports into the shipping box as you can afford. Build Powder Mills, Armories and Arsenals when you can. They bring ammo (you can find yourself short on ammo without) and some money. If you get enough transports into the shipping box quick enough you probably will not have to build any or very few Iron Works as your standard production and shipping should give you more than you can spend on WSU. Use Bonds, Taxes and Printing Money when your NM is high. If its fallen, try to wait until you've regained again, if you can, but don't let a half-year pass without using them all; it would just be a waist.

Protégé the few good leaders you get as they come along, Lyon, Kearney, Grant and Sherman. Give them the best troops and give them tasks that will allow them to succeed and gain experience and get promoted. Keep them active as much as possible. Time they are not getting ready to fight or fighting is waisted time.

Hit the Atlantic coast. Take out those Outerbanks forts. They're practically free-bees. Don't try to mount a major invasion on the Atlantic early, unless the South is begging for it by not keeping a strong enough force south of Wilmington.

New Orleans should be your first major invasion, and it's important. It's the South's largest city and worth a lot to the South and enough for your efforts.

Do not try to mount major offensives with your poor Eastern armies unless they will not be costly and are a sure thing. Small steps except where mandatory e.g.newspapers pressing for offensives. Read the the '62 Newspaper event carefully. There are ways to fulfill it without engaging in a costly battle.

Use your navy. Shuttling in and out of the boxes increases the chances of catching the enemy in the boxes. It's a lot of work, but it's better than letting them be idle.

Build, build, build and then build some more. Plan the units you build, and build the divisions you want. Don't build haphazardly. Decide on how your divisions should be composed and build them like that. It requires a lot of paper work, but anything else is foolish.

If the South invades, DON'T Panic! It's your opportunity to cut him off and cut him up. Unless Lee's just out for a stroll and runs back to Virginia, cut his supplies, cut his escape routes, garrison everything which might give him supplies and mass enough forces to fight him out. You will be in your territory with all the resources. You will recover quicker and always be in supply if you do it right. Don't play his game, make him play yours.

Guard your rivers. Every river crossing you control leaves a hinterland which you don't have to fill with troops.

Be flexible. The South is going to invade even if it's into territory you've taken from him, he's going to do things you didn't plan for, and he's going to change your plans. Roll with the blows and look for ways of disrupting his plans. Remember, an army without supplies is just a bunch of hungry men.

Use scouts to keep a eye on what's going on behind the line. You don't want to miss a build-up or sudden shift of forces.

Your goal is to survive in good shape until '63. Once you start getting those good and great leaders put them to work and the rest will be history.

[Poopyhead]

In an episode of "X Files", Scully and Mulder were undercover as a couple of newlyweds in suburbia. In front of the neighbors, he called her "his little woman" to which Scully replied, "That's right, Poopyhead."

This was my moniker back in the days when I ruled Steel Panthers.

[Captain_Orso]

So David Duchovny basically never broke role when he went on to play in Californication [:'(]

Thanks for sharing [:D]

[GamesaurusRex]

QUOTE FROM THE MATRIX AD PAGE:
"Civil War 2 is the definitive grand strategy game of the period. It is a turn based regional game with an emphasis on playability and historical accuracy... with a modern and intuitive interface...".

Well.. it does utilize turn based regional movement... but the rest of that description is rubbish. Ageod and I clearly have differing opinions about what constitutes "historical accuracy". (For example, 4 out of 5 of the South's ironclads that are operational in this game in 1861 were not, in fact, operational until later in 1862.) As for a modern and intuitive interface... maybe, if it was still 1995.

I have to agree with bommerang. CW2 is just another game with a "civil war theme", it is not a civil war simulation. Having fallen for the ad description and purchased it, I'll just have to do as altipueri has suggested, which is to just "get used to it", while I attempt to find some entertainment value out of it, or just put it on the back shelf with the other games that no longer merit game time. It wasn't a total waste, as this is my first Ageod product and I have learned from it that I do not care for their AGE engine and game design style... so I'll steer clear of their products.

If Pocus is interested in looking at the game files, I do have saved copies of the '.hst' and '.rpl' files for the weird battle results described above, but I don't have the '.ord' files. I'm not sure what examining them would clarify, as I have described accurately above what occurs. It is clearly the seniority mechanism going haywire almost every time a senior general retreats into an adjacent region where both sides have troops on defense. The consequential suicide attacks or abandonment of entrenched positions that these generals trigger is beyond ridiculous and reduces the game realism to that which one expects of a game of RISK. Very disappointing.

[Poopyhead]

GR, Ive played as the CSA and won. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen historically. I've also whipped Beauregard with Butler at one to three odds. I know that never happened. You're confusing the part where AGEOD got a lot of the pieces of the historical puzzle right, but you the player still have to put them together. Every now and then, some of the puzzle changes randomly so that you don't play the same game every time. Several people have been kind enough to help you get over the hump. We're still willing to help.

[gw15]

Thank you Captain. I read your post regularly on AGEOD and they are all very helpful. I will copy and paste your suggestions
on my CWII strategy bullet list. I do prepare a large spreadsheet with division builds, etc. It's almost mandatory
to keep organized as the North.

However, the developer should make some adjustments to make it more historical in 1861.