Anthropoids Third Try

[Anthropoid]

I will not promise for this to become a long after action thread, but I just wanted to post at least one message about my experience with the game.

What a fantastic game [:)] I bought it shortly after it came out (I think) and played it a bit shortly after getting it. Apart from playing Civilization a lot, and playing a few of the tabletop games like Third Reich I was pretty new to strategic level war games, to say nothing of such exquisitely detailed war games. I owned War in the Pacific before WPO, and have subsequently bought TOAWIII as well. In the years I've owned them, I seem to have gone through cycles, as real life and other factors allow. The first few times I played WiTP and WPO, the learning curve felt more like a learning cliff, and consequently the games sat unused for a few months at a time, and I never progressed beyond about a week of game time. Then someone suggested that WPO is a better learning medium than WiTP, and recently I had the time and urge to re-install WPO, and I've been playing it quite a bit lately, and loving it! Eventually a buddy of mine who is also a Civilization player are going to play a PBEM with WiTP, so I'm happy to be getting more adept with the engine and the game dynamics using WPO against the AI.

So my AI game in short: I'm playing the 1926-1930 Super Dreadnought scenario as the U.S. I have all the realism options turned ON, Auto Sub Operations OFF, AI difficulty HARD, and 1 day turn cycles. I guess I've come a long way because I seem to be not just holding my own but doing pretty well!

My general plan from the beginning that I have followed: (a) retreat to Bataan, pulling in as much fuel and supply as possible; in short take risks with AKs, sending them out to every possible island to extract supply and troops and cart it back to Bataan. This seems to have worked well. (b) follow a similar strategy all around the theater, sending out AKs to pull back supply asap (c) mobillize Brit forces and even out defenses on Malay and Java; I'm prepared to fall back to Java all forces in Borneo, Sulawesi, and Timor if necessary, but the Brits are gradually moving forward toward garrisoning Brunei. (d) never let a single turn lapse when a freighter is not either moving troops or supply or fuel to a forward base. In about a month I'll be landing troops at Moloelap, and then shortly after that (if I've planned properly) retake Wake Island as well. More or less simultaneously, Australian forces will move up from Rabaul. (e) I've followed a strategy of 'staying out of the way' of the Japanese navy, but have lost ten or so ships, including two of the antique Dutch BBs, a couple DDs, a couple AKs, a couple subs.

The Japanese have yet to take Guam, but Wake Island fell quickly. In the PHIL they have totally taken Mindanao, and northern Luzon including Manila and Clark Field, but Lingayen and Bataan remain in allied hands.

In Bataan I have a pile of troops, none from the Brit or Dutch forces, just the retreated fragments from all over the PHIL islands, with a total Assaul value of 515, and 352 guns! There are about 55K supplies and 30K fuel stacked up in there and most of the ships that were around the PHIL are patrolling to ward off seaborne invasions (including a couple of the Dutch BBs a few CAs, a few DDs, loads of PGs, etc.). I'm about to get Bataan up to Fort level 5, but still only port and airfield 1. I'm hoping I can get it up to 6, but maybe not. Bataan is at worst buying time, and at best holding out till relief can come from the Brits, no idea about what the Japanese have available but this fortress Bataan strategy certainly seems to have stalled them compared to actual history in early 1942!

It is July 9, 1926

[Anthropoid]

July 23, 1926. The Japanese still have not made any additional territorial gains. Guam remains in allied hands, as does San Marcelino and Bataan. There have been no further land force engagements, and very, very few naval engagements. There was one air sortie against Amoy about two weeks ago, and perhaps a few SS and ASWs playing cat and mouse. Otherwise all quiet.

I've been gradually moving forward the U.S. marine, Australian Infantry and British Infantry to Midway/Johnston Island/Pearl; Rabaul; and Malaya respectively.

Malaya is a solid fortress. The strait with Sumatra is heavily mined, and I have a decent naval force in Singapore. All the cities from Bangkok to Johore Bharu have proper levels of support, engineers, and infantry (~150 Assault value). Most of them now have fortresses in the 2+ ball park.

Rabaul has been totally unmolested, as has Midway and Johnston Island. Rabaul I have not been able to really garrison, but Midway and Johnston both have ~100 guns and ~100 Assault Values, with plenty of naval mines, and fuel and supplies in the 30K ballparks.

The Japanese PO has been lurking his navy around Manila, and Lingayen, perhaps trying to lure my naval force out of Bataan. This force includes BB Dreadnought, the two remaining pre-dreadnought Dutch BBs, and a handful of CAs, and about 10 DDs or so. Most have accumulated 3 to 4 Sys damage but are otherwise doing okay, and there is plenty of supply and fuel in Bataan (~38K and ~14K respectively). Bataan will be a Fort 6 pretty soon, and is already at Port = 2. Once I reach Fort 6, I plan to build up the airfield, so that the bombers can actually do something [:)]

One interesting thing I noticed. I set a sample of all my planes to either ground attack friendly hexes or else to training; I had heard over in a WiTP thread that the engine unfairly allowed rapid experience increases from mock attacking friendly cities. It did not work out that way. From a sample of 6 air units set to Train at either 90 or 100 % and a sample of 9 units set to ground attack a friendly city, the average rate of experience increase over the span of one week worth of turns was:

Training = 1
Ground Attack = 0.67

Then something VERY surprising happened. I'm not sure why. Either the Japanese PO was attempting a seaborne invasion of Bataan (seems unlikely given the composition of his force, and the lack of and preceding bombardment), or he was just clumsily moving transports into and out of Manila. It is puzzling, cause I have all the running surface ships in Bataan in one TF and set to reaction = 0.

Anyway, all of a sudden there is a night combat at Bataan, between my force of 3 BBs, 3 CAs, 2 CLs, and 10 DDs, and the Japanese force comprising soley APs!!! [:-]

Lets just say it did not turn out well for the IJN on 7-23-26.

I wonder if it was actually trying to land an amphibious attack, but was hesitant to send his bombarding ships into the path of the ~300 some odd CD guns plus naval guns in Bataan, or if it was just careless moving of a transport group?

There has not been much recon by Jap planes, and I have moved small squads of ships in and out of Bataan a few times, so I suppose it is POSSIBLE the AI "did not know" that that surface combat TF was waiting in Bataan?

[Anthropoid]

The other somewhat strange thing that I'd love to hear anyone else comment on: the Japanese PO has NOT taken San Marcelino, despite it having ZERO troops in it, and a fort that is probably not even = 1. This is probably the AI taking advantage of the supply/fuel siphoning effect. San Marcelino seems to have siphoned about 2000 fuel and a thousand or so supply from Bataan.

July 27, 1926, The Defenders of Bataan are HOLDING OUT!

There was another apparent Japanese attempt at an amphibious assault on Bataan. Out of the ~10 APs, none were undamaged, and at least half sunk just off the coast of Bataan. Perhaps the AI is sending empty APs that are cheap and plentiful to siphon off ammo/supply?

Bataan is as follows:
Port = 2.10%
Air = 1.30
Fort = 5.77
48212 Supply
9653 Fuel
354 Guns
7789 Infantry
52,086 2nd Line Troops
Assault Value = 524

[Helpless]

I never ever seen Japanese AI invading whole of Luzon. It is very passive, just to be used for basic introduction to the game. In PBEM US have zero chances to hold Luzon if Japan wants to take it.

[Anthropoid]

I guess since Production is turned off in WPO, the oil, manpower, and industrial resources in the Indonesian islands are not attractive to the AI and it is simply killing ships and taking cities that it is motivated by?

So Helpless, I guess you're saying that my strategy to fall back and holdup in Bataan probably would not work so well against a capable human opponent?

[Helpless]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

I guess since Production is turned off in WPO, the oil, manpower, and industrial resources in the Indonesian islands are not attractive to the AI and it is simply killing ships and taking cities that it is motivated by?

So Helpless, I guess you're saying that my strategy to fall back and holdup in Bataan probably would not work so well against a capable human opponent?

AI is scripted to take some locations - mostly PI centered in WPO. Resources, imho, as such have no attraction for AI.

Depends what you want to achieve. The most you can do is to delay Japanese advances. By falling back to Batan you keep all big guns, which can protect you from naval bombardments. Manila is urban and non malaria. Knowing that Japan has overwhelming superiority both options have 0 chances to hold Manila. For various reasons I do prefer to defend in urban

[Anthropoid]

Interesting . . . I did not think the malaria had such a big impact, but I suppose it should, and this is such a realistic game after all.

I had the impression that flanking (to the extent that that term is appropriate at this scale of engagement) was significant both for land and sea engagements. Is that not true?

Thus, my reasons for NOT falling back to Manila was that it can be flanked by troops approaching from south and north, though perhaps that is not so likely to actually happen early enough that it would matter. Though the other thing about Manila is: once Bataan is taken by Japan, it is going to be a MUCH more difficult prospect to blockade run in and out of Manila, and consequently Manila is also a less 'useful' bastion for deterring Japanese progress across the South China Sea. I had the impression that one major element of the actual real life War Plan Orange, was to fall back to Bataan with anything that could be carried off. In real life, the narrow and rugged peninsula connecting Bataan to the rest was a major element of this, and since terrain does matter in this game, I reckon it matters in game too? The AI certainly has not attacked Bataan despite about a month passing, so evidently 'he' thinks it is too tough a nut to crack so far!?

Does the AI in WPO never try to expand out to take more than just part of Luzon and Wake Island? Never any strikes on Midway? Indochina? Malaya? Borneo? Sulawesi? He certainly did take Mindanao real quick like!

At this point, I'm just having fun learning the scenario, and also reflecting on the interesting 'what if' hypotheses that the game raises about that period of history. I guess I have not studied intently enough how victory is determined in WPO. It seems to be simply based unit and base values, in which case I would think that expand-expand-expand would be the AIs primary intention. This leads me to think that (at least against AI) turning Bataan into a fortress, IS deterring him from advancing on all fronts, because hypothetically he is having to redeploy forces from elsewhere to contend with the dense packet of forces I have at Bataan.

[Anthropoid]

Helpless you said that you had never ever seen the IJN PO go for all of Luzon aggressively. Is that in THIS scenario (1926-1930 Super Dreadnoughts) or in the main 1922-1930 scenario?

I'm just wondering how exactly the AI is set up in this scenario. It has been so incredibly passive, I don't know if my garrisoning Bataan strategy is what has stopped it or if it is just programmed to go on the defensive as soon as it takes a bit of Luzon and takes Mindanao.

Keep in mind, I'm not playing the standard scenario (1922-1930), this is the 1926-1930 "Super Dreadnoughts" scenario. In this one, the IJN PO immediately invaded Luzon north. Shortly after that the invaded Mindanao, and Wake. The bombarded Guam a bit, but otherwise it has remained unmolested. I have even managed to slip in an AK with supplies and back out safely!

After that the AI has been totally passive. I followed a strategy of HEAVILY garrisoning Bataan, and that seems to have stopped him dead in his tracks.

At this point in my game, it is up to about late Jan 1927. I've taken several of the southeastern Marshall islands with American GIs, and have a large concentration of troops and planes on Moloelap ready to springboard to Kwajalein. I've been bombing Kwaj for several weeks, but my CVs still are not sending out missions. There are a lot of CD guns on Kwaj so I'm hesitant to send in an invasion and risk losing lots of stuff. I might just bypass Kwaj if I can. An Australian crew is about to hit Ponape and I hope they will not meet with too much resistance.

Meanwhile, a massive British force is landing in both Bataan and Naga to move simultaneously and retake Clark Field and Manila. I heard somebody saying something about "Brit Dutch French neutrality unless Pearl Harbor falls" in PBEMs with WPO. For the 1922 scenario that might make sense, but I don't think it does make political sense for the 1926 Super Dreadnoughts scenario. Not sure how well a Japanese human player would be able to hold up against the full allied forces or if it would just be too much.