Fatal Years for 1.03

[JJKettunen]

Yay!

[Chilperic]

I've got a new idea for the Absorbfaction command, for Anarchist/Bolshevik alliance.

The alliance could be simulated by absorbtion of Anarchists by Reds.

The end of the alliance would be much more tricky, because there's not Splitfaction command. But what could be done:

- recreating a new ANA faction
- killing ana units turned Red
- creating new anarchist units in a region which would become the ANA heartland, that could be Huliapole or another, if Huliaipole is under White control.

Of course, depleted Ana Red units would come back at full strenght ( no possibility to link both) but it would be more satisfying than the current option and would avoid gamey tactic to send Ana units to certain death...

What do you think?

[JJKettunen]

Interesting. From what I've read wouldn't deleting all ANA-units be the most "historical" choice?

edit: with all ANA-units I mean those that had allied with the Reds.

[Chilperic]

ORIGINAL: Keke

Interesting. From what I've read wouldn't deleting all ANA-units be the most "historical" choice?

edit: with all ANA-units I mean those that had allied with the Reds.

Alliance: all ANA units become Red. Played by Red.

Alliance broken: all ANA units under Red control are removed. New ANA faction is created, driven by AI, with new ANA units. BTW, Grigoriev reappears as Green and no more Anarchist: so he becomes a Makhno opponent [:)]

Of course, alliancemay occur only until the end of 1920: Kronstadt anarchists will be spared by alliance.

The alliance will be broken by an event at the end of 1920 if Red or Anarchists haven't yet chosen to break the alliance...

[JJKettunen]

So you have done it already?

I was thinking that the anarchists were such an independent force that the current implementation is the best approach.

I hope you are just not too keen to use the Absorbfaction command. [;)]

[Chilperic]

ORIGINAL: Keke

So you have done it already?

I was thinking that the anarchists were such an independent force that the current implementation is the best approach.

I hope you are just not too keen to use the Absorbfaction command. [;)]

Maybe[:D]. The current system isn't sufficiently incentive to push Red player to use alliance option, because there are no possibilities to control ANA moves during the allinace period. Now, Red will get this reinfort, with NM cost, a possibility ANA breaks alliance, a strenghtened ANA once allinace is broken, and some large vP losses if ANA units are destroyed. As much to avoid gamey tactics. And in some ways, the recreation of a new anarchist military force will avoid other gaey use of ANA. But in other hand, alliance with ANA will limit Red desertion to Anarchist when the Alliance is enforced in Southern Ukraine,that being a real bonus at start when reds haven't yet mobilized a large force during 1918 and the first part of 1919.

[JJKettunen]

I have not played the Reds so I was not aware of that problem. The change sounds sensible to me.

[Gnaeus]

Got the victory screen, not sure why since although the Siberian Whites were below 20 NM, the Southern Whites and Poland were very much alive. When I tried to access the victory screen from the message box, I got a CTD. Files attached.

AI observations: The main Southern White force in Novorossisk seemed pretty passive. The Siberians allowed me to send a corps along the northern rail line and take Omsk behind their main force.

Overall, the game seems to be working very well.

[Chilperic]

ORIGINAL: Gnaeus

Got the victory screen, not sure why since although the Siberian Whites were below 20 NM, the Southern Whites and Poland were very much alive. When I tried to access the victory screen from the message box, I got a CTD. Files attached.

AI observations: The main Southern White force in Novorossisk seemed pretty passive. The Siberians allowed me to send a corps along the northern rail line and take Omsk behind their main force.

Overall, the game seems to be working very well.

That's because Freikorps has lost...Little factions were triggering premature victories and I believed to have cured this trouble...[:@] It will in the next one.

[Krot]

ORIGINAL: Krot

ORIGINAL: Keke

ORIGINAL: Krot

Still have snow in Black Sea regions in late May 1919 but I will wait for the Sun, no problem. [:)]

Do note that I haven't changed the weather in and around Black Sea (it is not in the North or South Continental weather zone), so you are just having bad luck with the default values.

OK. Thank you for clarification.

Excuse me for revival of this topic. The Black Sea regions I mentioned vaguely in my post was in fact sole Novorossiysk region which belongs to the South weather zone in RUS and so it had snow in late May. Other unusually snowy littoral Southern regions were Azov Sea and Caspian Sea regions. I forgot to say that most of other Russian and Baltic regions turned green only in June.

[Krot]

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

ORIGINAL: Keke

So you have done it already?

I was thinking that the anarchists were such an independent force that the current implementation is the best approach.

I hope you are just not too keen to use the Absorbfaction command. [;)]

Maybe[:D]. The current system isn't sufficiently incentive to push Red player to use alliance option, because there are no possibilities to control ANA moves during the allinace period. Now, Red will get this reinfort, with NM cost, a possibility ANA breaks alliance, a strenghtened ANA once allinace is broken, and some large vP losses if ANA units are destroyed. As much to avoid gamey tactics. And in some ways, the recreation of a new anarchist military force will avoid other gaey use of ANA. But in other hand, alliance with ANA will limit Red desertion to Anarchist when the Alliance is enforced in Southern Ukraine,that being a real bonus at start when reds haven't yet mobilized a large force during 1918 and the first part of 1919.

This new perspective of temporary ANA-Red alliance looks rather tempting. In fact RCW saw other "unthinkable" coalitions:

Latvians, Freikorps and Russian Western army against Reds to capture Riga.

Ukrainians (Petlyura) allied with Poles against Reds.

Bolsheviks allied with Ukrainian Galician Army and Lithuanians to fight Poles.

Bolsheviks allied with Greens (in RUS terms) in Ukraine and Novorossia (Grigoriev) in 1919, Crimea (Orlov) in 1920.

In 1919-1920 Bolsheviks allied with anti-Kolchak SRs (whole divisions of ex-Kolchak turncoats fought for Red cause after anti-Kolchak coup) and Greens (peasant partisans) in Siberia.

To fight Whites Bolsheviks allied with anti-Russian religious and nationalist movements in North Caucasus (anti-Russian Moslem tribes like Chechens), Bashkiria and Central Asia.

There were also potential "unholy" alliances which are not present in RUS - most probably between Denikin and Ukrainians and/or Poles.

So implementing this feature has great potential on one hand and opens the can of worms on the other.

[Chilperic]

ORIGINAL: Krot




So implementing this feature has great potential on one hand and opens the can of worms on the other.

You're right, but fortunately, I'm not about to use anymore the absorbfaction command [:)]

because it would create much more problems with other factions.

In FY, Russian western Army and Freikorps are belonging to the same faction. Latvians aren't indeed but changing them in independant faction would deprive Southern Whites from real control about Balt regions, creating large gameplay problem.

Ukraine and Poland alliance seems to me not necessary as Poland and Ukraine are only AI factions. There's a new event warming relations between both if Ukraine has lost heavily.

Galician Army alliance with red is covered by FY prisonner recruitment rules, with new units.

Grigoriev will be first ANA, and so allied to red, then Green opposing Reds.

Red alliance with green is somewaht taken into account by subeversion RGD, Red partisans rules; Not really close to reality, but working. [:D]

SR desertions are simulated by prisoners rules too

Southern Whites may all with Ukrainian in FY since long ( January 2010). I will not use absorb command because it would be a nightmare to break the alliance and this sort of alliance would have been more a purely opportunistic one, when Red and Ana had at least in common some ideological common beliefs. So a simple ceasefire would be closer to reality without direct control of Ukrainina units by Whites. [:)]

[JJKettunen]

ORIGINAL: Krot

ORIGINAL: Krot

ORIGINAL: Keke




Do note that I haven't changed the weather in and around Black Sea (it is not in the North or South Continental weather zone), so you are just having bad luck with the default values.

OK. Thank you for clarification.

Excuse me for revival of this topic. The Black Sea regions I mentioned vaguely in my post was in fact sole Novorossiysk region which belongs to the South weather zone in RUS and so it had snow in late May. Other unusually snowy littoral Southern regions were Azov Sea and Caspian Sea regions. I forgot to say that most of other Russian and Baltic regions turned green only in June.

Novorossiysk is indeed in the South Continental weather zone and Baltics in the northern. It sounds like the problem I had with the first version of the weather mod, ie. May being too wintery. It may be that Clovis hasn't included the latest version, so just in case I attach it here. Extract the contents into the Weathers-folder.

[Krot]

I see your points Clovis. Playing RUS I often forget that it is just a game with its inherent limitations and simplifications. These are unavoidable. Sigh.
The only difference of RUS (FY mod version) from other PC games is that it is the best game to my taste so far. [:)]

[Krot]

ORIGINAL: Keke

ORIGINAL: Krot

ORIGINAL: Krot




OK. Thank you for clarification.

Excuse me for revival of this topic. The Black Sea regions I mentioned vaguely in my post was in fact sole Novorossiysk region which belongs to the South weather zone in RUS and so it had snow in late May. Other unusually snowy littoral Southern regions were Azov Sea and Caspian Sea regions. I forgot to say that most of other Russian and Baltic regions turned green only in June.

Novorossiysk is indeed in the South Continental weather zone and Baltics in the northern. It sounds like the problem I had with the first version of the weather mod, ie. May being too wintery. It may be that Clovis hasn't included the latest version, so just in case I attach it here. Extract the contents into the Weathers-folder.

Thank you Keke.

[Krot]

Southern Whites may all with Ukrainian in FY since long ( January 2010). I will not use absorb command because it would be a nightmare to break the alliance and this sort of alliance would have been more a purely opportunistic one, when Red and Ana had at least in common some ideological common beliefs. So a simple ceasefire would be closer to reality without direct control of Ukrainina units by Whites. [:)]
[/quote]

Good news (for me at least [:)]). I am yet to see that option as Southern Whites. I have just approached Kiev and may hope that it will make Petlyura wise enough to ask for an armistice.
As for the possibilities of such temporary ceasefires between minor factions it would be great if AI could cope with it. In my current game Poles, Freicorps and NW Whites allied with Balts bleed each other clearing the way for Bolshevik onslaught. May be it could be triggered via events. For example: Freicorps in peace with Balts and NW Whites (BTW the latter never fought against Freikorps) if the Reds keep Riga and/or Tallinn and/or Vilnius.

[Chilperic]

ORIGINAL: Krot

Southern Whites may all with Ukrainian in FY since long ( January 2010). I will not use absorb command because it would be a nightmare to break the alliance and this sort of alliance would have been more a purely opportunistic one, when Red and Ana had at least in common some ideological common beliefs. So a simple ceasefire would be closer to reality without direct control of Ukrainina units by Whites. [:)]

Good news (for me at least [:)]). I am yet to see that option as Southern Whites. I have just approached Kiev and may hope that it will make Petlyura wise enough to ask for an armistice.
As for the possibilities of such temporary ceasefires between minor factions it would be great if AI could cope with it. In my current game Poles, Freicorps and NW Whites allied with Balts bleed each other clearing the way for Bolshevik onslaught. May be it could be triggered via events. For example: Freicorps in peace with Balts and NW Whites (BTW the latter never fought against Freikorps) if the Reds keep Riga and/or Tallinn and/or Vilnius.

[/quote]


To ally with Ukraine, you must play first Recognize independance option [:D] I know, rather costly, but mandatory [:D]

I will study your proposal. Poland and Freikorps will not ( Germany and Poland were in the same time at war for Silesia) but it could indeed be added for Freikorps/S; Whites ( and its subfactions of course [:)])

[Krot]

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

ORIGINAL: Krot

To ally with Ukraine, you must play first Recognize independance option [:D] I know, rather costly, but mandatory [:D]


Oh no, it is too great sacrifice for my old good Ice March veterans. In fact Petlyura after series of defeats in Summer and Autumn of 1919 became rather modest and talked about confederation. But not a big deal.

[Krot]

ORIGINAL: Chliperic


[
As for the possibilities of such temporary ceasefires between minor factions it would be great if AI could cope with it. In my current game Poles, Freicorps and NW Whites allied with Balts bleed each other clearing the way for Bolshevik onslaught. May be it could be triggered via events. For example: Freicorps in peace with Balts and NW Whites (BTW the latter never fought against Freikorps) if the Reds keep Riga and/or Tallinn and/or Vilnius.

I will study your proposal. Poland and Freikorps will not ( Germany and Poland were in the same time at war for Silesia) but it could indeed be added for Freikorps/S; Whites ( and its subfactions of course [:)])
[/quote]


Absolutely agree with you on Poles and Freicorps. I meant armistices:
1) between Freicorps and Balts/NW Whites and 2) between Poles and Balts/Whites. The latter is rather dubious and needs some research and tweaking because Poles may oppose Whites in Ukraine and Belorussia.

[JJKettunen]

This is a really strange problem. I have tried to overrun Ekaterinodar with overwhelming forces, but my 2 armies have refused to move into the region for 2 turns now! [&:]

Saves attached.