An East Front Campaign?

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Fri May 31, 2002 12:17 pm

Is there any chance that a campaign version will be made covering the entire Eastern conflict resembling WIR (War in Russia)?

pxreiman · Post by **pxreiman** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:53 pm

Seems a natural extension.

varjager · Post by **varjager** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:28 pm

That would be great.To have the hole war at your hands.

PzKpfw IV · Post by **PzKpfw IV** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:23 pm

Hole war

I love those hole wars, we should have more of them. I really like having a hole in my hands too

Duncan Maggs · Post by **Duncan Maggs** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:40 am

Let's not get carried away. The existing TAO2 Ardennes system has proved excellent for creating a limited operational campaign with historical reinforcements. I am hopeful that the East Front battle Korsun Pocket will prove to be equally as suitable for the system when it is released (perhaps by the end of this year).

A recreation of the whole of the Eastern Front on the scale of TAO2 or TAO3 would be quite a challenge and would create additional complexity of supply and production - would it be the same game? Those who bought Russo-German War have seen the problems thrown up by that game (and the solutions due to ongoing support by Ron Dockall).

I would rather see more additional operational scenarios on the same scale as the Ardennes or Korsun battles. If Roger Keating was to create a new East Front game on a strategic scale I would be interested in buying it but I think that the design issues involved would ensure that it wasn't TAO2 or TAO3 writ large.

pxreiman · Post by **pxreiman** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:29 pm

disagree. If realism or accuracy are paramount maybe - but to simply expand TAO3 to allow for several operational pushes - read "the hole front" - would be a blast to play. I think that is the point afterall. Wouldn't you like to start from scratch and fight the entire conflict? Plus, it might remove the edge of the world issue. Realism is overrated. Afterall, if you listen, you can hear the grognards debating the thickness of a Panther's turret armor ...

Duncan Maggs · Post by **Duncan Maggs** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:28 pm

OK. However an East Front campaign version of TAO2 (or 3) style would involve a lot of units given that each infantry division is represented by 3 regimental units. If the infantry division were represented by a single unit and the mech/armour retained the existing three units per division that could be workable. One of the reasons I find TAO2 fun to play is because there is not an intolerable amount of unit pushing. If the unit count is kept within reasonable limits it could be done.

However I still think my earlier comments are valid and that a East Front 41-45 campaign game could not just be a number of operational campaigns stitched together. Issues of command control, supply, production, maybe even politics would be considerations that would have to be handled differently e.g. there are no HQ units in TAO2 unlike WIR or RGW. Map size is another issue - there would be a lot of scrolling for a reg/div scale game. Realism is not a problem - all games take some liberties and unless you want the ultra tactical modelling of armour thickness in a tank on tank game - most operational or strategic games will have abstracted some concepts and traded them against increased playability.

WIR is a little old in the tooth now and RGW has a decidedly clunky interface. If an interface such as TAO2's could be the basis for a new East Front campaign game I would be all for it provided it retained the ease of use of the original and remained fun to play.

pxreiman · Post by **pxreiman** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:33 pm

You hit the nail on the head. Every one I have shown TAO has played it and loved it. It truly sets the standard for computer wargames. Lessons learned: 1) Interface is key - start with that and work backwards to the game engine. For a game to get a following it has got to be accessible. 2) graphics count. I could never really get into RGW because I have been spoiled by 2x3 and SPWAW. I ain't going back no matter how realistic it gets. So, good work bears repeating and you are exactly right:
WIR is a little old in the tooth now and RGW has a decidedly clunky interface. If an interface such as TAO2's could be the basis for a new East Front campaign game I would be all for it provided it retained the ease of use of the original and remained fun to play.
Accordingly - let's move this fabulous engine to North Africa and to Korea and Gualcanal and Normandy and even -drum roll- the first world war.

soldaten · Post by **soldaten** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:32 am

I too would like to see a game covering the entire eastern front
utilizing a modified Tao2 engine. I recall playing the old
War in Russia by SSG on my old commodore 64. I found
it highly addictive and fun...you could complete the whole
campaign in a long evening of play. Im just daydreaming
but maybe it'll happen someday......

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:26 am

I recall playing the old
War in Russia by SSG on my old commodore 64.

Pop into the WIR forum and DL the game- and you can continue to play the new and improved WAR IN RUSSIA!

The WIR forum is here on Matrix!

Peter Fisla · Post by **Peter Fisla** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:52 pm

Guys, looking at the editor the following unit size is supported: company....Army. The scale that you are looking for (The Ardennes Offensive, the original) and that made this system famous will still be there in it's glory but there will be more. So I don't see why somebody couldn't make a whole Eastern Front scenario. Actually I would like to see someone creating a good Stalingrad scenario....

Ok, let's see. The current build contains the following scenarios which are of course under construction:

1) Korsun Pocket 2) Invasion Malta 3) Market Garden 4) Overlord 5) Panzergruppe Guderian (based on old '71 boardgame) 6) Ardennes Offensive.

Each of these scenarios has a separate directory. Each of these scenario directories contains datafiles and graphics files. Which means that each scenario can look very different in terms of terrain as well as unit graphics. The scenario editor is very robust and detailed. I noticed that when creating units, size can be from company to Army, it all depends on the designer. I spoke with Roger and I mentioned to him that good editor manual and step by step tutorial is very important. Korsun Pocket scenarios will be as strong as TAO2 in terms of detail, KP scenarios won't feel generic. It's just that Roger would like to give a good editor to the users so that if some brave souls decide to make some other unique and detail scenarios they can.

In terms of graphics TAO3 looks great, like it was carved out of stone, very clean and solid. If you played TAO and say Warlords Battlecry I,II you know what I'm talking about. Of course TAO3 works well in Windows 2000 and I believe this includes XP as well

Peter

pxreiman · Post by **pxreiman** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 10:46 pm

I think Malta will be great. Getting warmer. Still think this system's chance to shine will be in the northern sahara. Could be expanded to the Arab-Isr. wars too.

An East Front Campaign?

An East Front Campaign?

african desert