hill 621 - need help on AI

[laska2k8]

my hill 621 scenario it's almost done, but I need help on understanding the best AI behavior.
My question are related only on units entering the battle as reinforcement.
I tested the scenario AI vs AI and generally the attacker do a good job on moving, hiding and finding a weak spot to attack.
The problems is the defender, reinforcement units don't act as expected.

In this image I numbered (in white) the reinforce group and in green the move group hex they belong to.


1) group 1 enter on turn 1
2) group 2 enter on turn 2
3) group 3 enter on turn 5
4) group 4 enter on turn 1

the result is:

1) the group 1 move to the assigned zone
2) the group 2 stay in place until the end of the scenario
3) the group 3 stay in place until the end of the scenario
4) the group 4 stay in place until the end of the scenario except one afv that go in the right place

As read in the editor manual, a unit move to the assigned zone until encounter a enemy unit.

In the scenario condition the German "attack" and the Soviet "berserk", if I choose defend for the German the units stay all in place and no one move.

Need help on making the reinforce units go to the victory hexes.

[laska2k8]

this are the MG zones

all units have the right move zone assigned

[usgrandprix]

I'm not sure if it will help but it says

Move Hex Group: AI setting to tell the unit to move for a particular hex, which is set with the function key F7. There should only be one move hex for each move group. Units all stacked in one hex that you want to try and keep together should all be set to the same move group. This is the primary way to get AI units on the edge of the map to start moving in the right direction. Their move group destination will be forgotten once the enemy is contacted, this is intended just to get them going.

So maybe try just 1 MG hex per group and that is the one they should move toward? Like make the one MG hex the final destination for that group.

Patrol Groups are where you set more than one hex.

Hope that helps. I have trouble making units do exactly what I want too.

[jonj01]

Usgrandprix is right.. you have to use just one hex for a move group. Secondly, I didn't really understand which move group is assigned to which reinforcement.
And you say reinforcement 2,3,4 all stay in place, have the russians overran the victory hexes?

More importantly, I thought quite a bit about this scenario..but didn't start a design because the hill LOS is all wrong in the 1.08.
If I was to design this scenario..I would design it as three scenarios. The reason being the AI is kinda stupid.
Scenario 1(completely balanced) is for multi-player games. Both sides about the same as the ASL scenario.
Scenario 2 (German human vs Russian AI).....add more units to russian side ..AI is stupid.
Scenario 3(Russian human vs German AI)....add more units to German side...start with more of the units placed on the board where they are needed. The germans in this scenario are really hard to play..I think the AI is just too stupid to do it right. I would have the german reinforcements just appear in the hexes you need them at a given turn.

Lets face facts...in this scenario anyone can win as russians...just check the ROAR ratings. The germans are the side that require real planning....I just don't think the AI can do it..with the units provided in the ASL scenario vs a human. If you or anyone can make a hill 621 scenario with human russian and german AI and make it challenging.... I will be very surprised. No AI is smart enough.

However, I will play whatever scenario you provide. Just keep in mind....you are making scenarios(like hill 253.5) for the real classic ASL and SL games. I will have feedback and may modify whatever scenario you post. I play everything you post and I give you honest feedback on the scenario and how you can make it better.

In other words, I am not being critical just because I'm a critical jerk.

[laska2k8]

I did some other trials on a small test scenario, and the problem seems related to different type of units in the same hex (i.e afv and infantry squad).

I managed to react the AI as I wanted for group of infantry units and tanks, but I cannot moved a atg gun with a transport unit, the AI don't load into and they move together at lowest rate (atg), but they move.

if you want to try by yourself this attachment is the test scenario using the asl map 02.

[fran52]

More importantly, I thought quite a bit about this scenario..but didn't start a design because the hill LOS is all wrong in the 1.08.

We are waiting the patch 1.09 that seem solve the problem of the LOS from different lavel.

[jonj01]

ORIGINAL: laska2k4

I did some other trials on a small test scenario, and the problem seems related to different type of units in the same hex (i.e afv and infantry squad).

I managed to react the AI as I wanted for group of infantry units and tanks, but I cannot moved a atg gun with a transport unit, the AI don't load into and they move together at lowest rate (atg), but they move.

if you want to try by yourself this attachment is the test scenario using the asl map 02.

Laska my friend,

No man..you crank this scenario out. Finish it.
My suggestions to you are 1) place the AT gun(the 75 mm one that comes in on turn 1 in the ASL scenario) on the hill make it appear on turn 2 or 3 exactly where you want it.
2)Use single hex move groups to try to get the AI to go where you want...I've tried this and sometimes it works ..sometimes not
3)finish the scenario....I will try it. You've done so much work. Your land of levithans scenario was a lot of fun. Balanced or not this scenario will be a lot of fun.

I'm working on my own CAMPAIGN. this campaign takes a lot of planning.

Hill 621 is a tough, tough tough scenario to configure the AI for the germans. I've played the scenario 10 times as the germans, and I still don't know what the best plan for them is.

I wasn't trying to discourage you. I can't, cannot, no can do, cannot make scenario with germans AI work. My plan for a human soviet vs german AI on hill 621 was just to give the germans a couple extra tanks or AT guns and another 3 squads.

I'm sorry if I was too critical.

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: laska2k4

..... but I cannot moved a atg gun with a transport unit, the AI don't load into and they move together at lowest rate (atg), but they move.

....

Normal rules don't allow ATG's to be loaded on to transports, same in boardgame.

[jonj01]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

ORIGINAL: laska2k4

..... but I cannot moved a atg gun with a transport unit, the AI don't load into and they move together at lowest rate (atg), but they move.

....

Normal rules don't allow ATG's to be loaded on to transports, same in boardgame.

Thanks Barthheart, I didn't know that. I moved a 75mm Inf gun in the german campaign with a vehicle. Why would a AT gun be any different?

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: jonj01

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

ORIGINAL: laska2k4

..... but I cannot moved a atg gun with a transport unit, the AI don't load into and they move together at lowest rate (atg), but they move.

....

Normal rules don't allow ATG's to be loaded on to transports, same in boardgame.

Thanks Barthheart, I didn't know that. I moved a 75mm Inf gun in the german campaign with a vehicle. Why would a AT gun be any different?

The rules is for all guns over 25mm in size. In the campaign this was overridden, as it can be in the board game for a specific scenario.

[jonj01]

Laska,

Your scenario design became a lot easier. Just have the AT guns appear where you want them on a given turn.
I look forward to playing your scenario.

[jonj01]

Laska,

Ok, the AT guns won't load or unload. So you can either just have them appear at the hex you want.

OR.....

You can change the 75mm AT gun+tow vehicle into a Marder (the marder has no armor..no machine gun...is open top so it cannot button...can be fired on by small arms)
and change the 50mm AT gun+tow vehicle ..that comes in on turn 5 or whatever into a Panzerjager same as Marder. I finished the unit.csv for it yesterday.

OR ....

you can do whatever you want.

I look forward to playing your scenario

[k9mike]

Cant wait for this scenario...please post as soon as done...

[laska2k8]

well I tweaked some MG so that German tactic is more powerful, in fact they win in AI vs AI.

another few test and I release the scenario for testing purposes.

[k9mike]

Will the versions you have make any diff on the scenario?? I am playing with whatever version has been recently updated...meaning I am not playing with any of the beta versions...just official updated version.

[laska2k8]

added scenario on my thread.
please report any suggestion and new ideas directly to me so it can be modded/adjusted with the right balance.
My last testing report a Human soviet win against the AI on the last turn