The Ant Unit Problem

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ColinWright
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RE: Ant Units

Post by ColinWright »

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
As matters stand, players have every reason to engage in utterly ahistorical behavior and to completely ignore the actual function of any small specialty units they might have.

In a few scenarios I have tried to adjust for such behavior by editing out the AP/AT value of bridge engineers and AA equipment. Of course this does not prohibit using these units as ant attack or blocking units, but in a scenario where bridge and AA units are needed to perform their primary duties, the motive to use them as ant attack units is reduced.

Haven’t tried it, but I would think that the same could be done with AT units, MP units and as a way of distinguishing between logistic engineer and combat engineer units.

Think the real trick is to design the scenario so that these units have real value when performing their primary mission rather than just being another form of infantry.

Regards, RhinoBones

That'll help: I remember one scenario with motorized but otherwise utterly useless corps HQ's: light cavalry!

However, for purposes of just braining supply, it's just too easy to make ants. Take Seelowe: battalion/regiment level, with stacks of up to about half a division fairly common. Now, there is just no reasonable design device that will make it an unattractive option for the Brit to a battered, subdivided remnant of a battalion of territorials and have that company drain the supply and readiness from half a division of fresh German infantry. Moreover, the mental picture it conjures up is totally surreal. One hundred British heroes, unfed, unarmed, and unshaven, seriously weakening a force of seven thousand fully equipped, rested Germans.

The ant unit problem, for combat purposes, is not a design issue. It's a programming issue.
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rhinobones
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RE: Ant Units

Post by rhinobones »

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
Take Seelowe . . .

AFAIK Seelowe is not a public domain scenario. Best that you use an example that everyone can understand.

Regards, RhinoBones
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a white rabbit
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RE: The Ant Unit Problem

Post by a white rabbit »

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay




Only if the target includes artillery that fires counterbattery.

..sorry no, or rather no in ACOW, pure ranged fire with zero AP/AT but high shell weight wacks the target unit's supply level, you obviously missed my BioEd trials for ancients leader effects.

No. I was a participant in them, and you were definitely using an "infantry gun" icon target - triggering counterbattery fire - which accounted for the supply drop.

..err noooo, i used an inf gun at start because it's a ranged artillery piece and it was used to test fire, not as a target. Targets were tried across a range of units. I also used an inf gun unit to test different ranges and kill rates, mostly on irreg units, again because it's a simple tile without HQ functions. HQ units came after i played with the BioEd settings and went to extremes 0AT/0AP/1000 shell weight in an attempt to get the Napoleonic kill rate correct and had run out of AP/AT options..

..as you were there, you've obviously forgotten Colin not liking the 'super-shout' being as it only affected the supply (and by linking in the program, the readiness), and it would appear so has Colin. ..
..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: The Ant Unit Problem

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..err noooo, i used an inf gun at start because it's a ranged artillery piece and it was used to test fire, not as a target. Targets were tried across a range of units. I also used an inf gun unit to test different ranges and kill rates, mostly on irreg units, again because it's a simple tile without HQ functions. HQ units came after i played with the BioEd settings and went to extremes 0AT/0AP/1000 shell weight in an attempt to get the Napoleonic kill rate correct and had run out of AP/AT options..

..as you were there, you've obviously forgotten Colin not liking the 'super-shout' being as it only affected the supply (and by linking in the program, the readiness), and it would appear so has Colin. ..

More Cold Fusion, like your AAA at bridges/airfield stuff. (Results that can only be reproduced in Richard's lab).
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ColinWright
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RE: Ant Units

Post by ColinWright »

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
Take Seelowe . . .

AFAIK Seelowe is not a public domain scenario. Best that you use an example that everyone can understand.

Regards, RhinoBones

Yeah -- but it's the one scenario I'm intimately familiar with. So it's where all my examples come from. And the reference you're referring to was certainly easy enough to understand.
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a white rabbit
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RE: The Ant Unit Problem

Post by a white rabbit »

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit
..err noooo, i used an inf gun at start because it's a ranged artillery piece and it was used to test fire, not as a target. Targets were tried across a range of units. I also used an inf gun unit to test different ranges and kill rates, mostly on irreg units, again because it's a simple tile without HQ functions. HQ units came after i played with the BioEd settings and went to extremes 0AT/0AP/1000 shell weight in an attempt to get the Napoleonic kill rate correct and had run out of AP/AT options..

..as you were there, you've obviously forgotten Colin not liking the 'super-shout' being as it only affected the supply (and by linking in the program, the readiness), and it would appear so has Colin. ..

More Cold Fusion, like your AAA at bridges/airfield stuff. (Results that can only be reproduced in Richard's lab).

..again no, the units i was attacking with persistantly took 0%, i was just attacking with the wrong units..

..but i suppose you tried the high shell-weight artillery ? if so and it didn't work then can i see your exp-scen please ?
..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,
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alexzhz
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RE: The Ant Unit Problem

Post by alexzhz »

Can this problem be solved in the coming patch?
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Telumar
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RE: The Ant Unit Problem

Post by Telumar »

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a white rabbit
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RE: Ant Units

Post by a white rabbit »

..i agree, ant units are a real headache...
 
..now if anyone has any ideas how to stop them eating my direct drilled onion seed just as it starts to swell, say at 3 days......
..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,
ColinWright
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RE: Ant Units

Post by ColinWright »

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..i agree, ant units are a real headache...

..now if anyone has any ideas how to stop them eating my direct drilled onion seed just as it starts to swell, say at 3 days......

Pesticides. Powerful, inorganic pesticides, manufactured by dubious firms based in China.

I'll probably change my mind, but it's good to see you back.
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Curtis Lemay
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RE: Ant Units

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..i agree, ant units are a real headache...

..now if anyone has any ideas how to stop them eating my direct drilled onion seed just as it starts to swell, say at 3 days......

Pesticides. Powerful, inorganic pesticides, manufactured by dubious firms based in China.

You might want to lay off the human waste fertilizer, too.
I'll probably change my mind, but it's good to see you back.

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ColinWright
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RE: Ant Units

Post by ColinWright »

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


Rumors of his death were highly exaggerated.

Only the good die young. It's reassuring to realize that.
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