Phase 40/60/80 questions

[HintJ]

Quoting the info page:


"At the scenario level, you can choose to play the normal 40 Second Orders / 40 Second Reaction turn structure, or choose one of the following instead
40 Second Orders with or without a Reaction Phase
60 Second Orders with or without a Reaction Phase
80 Second Orders without a Reaction Phase
Yes, this means that if you want you can play with 60 Second Turns with no Reaction Phase and always have access to the full Orders menu at the start of each Turn."

1) Is this option decided in the scenario editor by the scenario author, or by the player at the start of each game?

2) Are reaction phases all still 40 seconds?

3) If, for example, I choose 40 second order phase without a reaction phase, can I order a platoon leader to move forward while I tell a subordinate unit to reverse?

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: HintJ

Quoting the info page:


"At the scenario level, you can choose to play the normal 40 Second Orders / 40 Second Reaction turn structure, or choose one of the following instead
40 Second Orders with or without a Reaction Phase
60 Second Orders with or without a Reaction Phase
80 Second Orders without a Reaction Phase
Yes, this means that if you want you can play with 60 Second Turns with no Reaction Phase and always have access to the full Orders menu at the start of each Turn."

1) Is this option decided in the scenario editor by the scenario author, or by the player at the start of each game?

2) Are reaction phases all still 40 seconds?

3) If, for example, I choose 40 second order phase without a reaction phase, can I order a platoon leader to move forward while I tell a subordinate unit to reverse?

We've refined that a bit since way back then. Now the scenario designer can set the turn sequence in the scenario editor and you can play it with the sequence they chose. Or one of the options is to play the turn as a 60 second phase with no reaction phase.

I was one of the biggest proponents of the 60 second turn. You could say that I "mildly" disliked the 40:40 - orders/reaction phase sequencing when we first started. I disliked it so much I played it as a single 80 second turn. For the most part I still do that. But after having played the 40:40 sequence so much I like the idea of telling a unit to reverse out of trouble if they need to in 40 seconds instead of watching them die 20 seconds later. 20 seconds doesn't seem like much but it makes a phase 50% longer from 40 seconds to 60 seconds.

So, while three options are still there, you can only get change what the scenario designer set the turn sequence at with a 60 second turn phase.

Good Hunting.

MR

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: HintJ
....3) If, for example, I choose 40 second order phase without a reaction phase, can I order a platoon leader to move forward while I tell a subordinate unit to reverse?

No, I don't think so HintJ. You are still constrained to issue suboradinate orders based on the Base HQ command order. Actually, this was one of the benefits of the reaction phase, during the reaction phase you CAN (and always could) order one unit to withdraw while the other units continued to move forward.

EDIT: for full discloseure I should admit, I was always a proponent of the two phase system, and still play that way almost always, unles sI'm spefically testing something else.
Thanks
rick

[junk2drive]

Once we got the 60 and tried it, we went back to the 40:40.

I hope that people used to the 60 second turn will at least give 40:40 a chance.

[Yoozername]

Make the turns assymetrical optionally.

[Mobius]

I always thought the reaction phase broke up the feeling of synchronised activity. When every unit gives new orders at the exact same moment each 60 seconds seems a little too controlled. We have the partial phase delay for Soviets so it isn't as noticable.

[HintJ]

Thanks for the replies. I think I will probably stick with the 40/40 deal. I would like to try the 40 second order phase without a reaction phase, but the main problem with no reaction phase is the inability to reverse a single unit without giving a general withdraw order.

[diablo1]

I like the idea of just a 40 second turn without reaction. 60 seconds really was a bit too long to bite ones fingernails in the Combat Mission games and 80 seconds 40:40 I never did really care for either. So, I'll hopefully be playing just 40 second turns???

While I'm thinking about it what about the command phase for moving units do all the units still move when you move the leader/HQ unit of a group? I remember this was a pain in the origional game. If you just wanted to move one unit in a group you had to issue orders to the HQ first and then go back to each individual unit to move them "separately"?? Is this still the same?

[junk2drive]

yes

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: diablo1

I like the idea of just a 40 second turn without reaction. 60 seconds really was a bit too long to bite ones fingernails in the Combat Mission games and 80 seconds 40:40 I never did really care for either. So, I'll hopefully be playing just 40 second turns???

While I'm thinking about it what about the command phase for moving units do all the units still move when you move the leader/HQ unit of a group? I remember this was a pain in the origional game. If you just wanted to move one unit in a group you had to issue orders to the HQ first and then go back to each individual unit to move them "separately"?? Is this still the same?

Ravinhood,

You didn't like PCK before and was quite vocal about its shortcomings I seem to recall.

PCO is PCK++++, first and foremost it fixes a whole lot of broken stuff form PCK and then adds a whole lot more content, graphics, sounds, etc, etc but the core gameplay remains the same.

I somehow doubt it will be the game for you.

S.

[diablo1]

Ummm my name is Diablo1 you bloke. But if you insist on calling me something else then I'll start calling you Stridex Pads.

[HintJ]

I always thought of the reaction phase as a stop-gap for overriding questionable decisions made by the AI. Maybe in PC4 having a 40:20 or 30:30 ratio is a good idea? Maybe even 45:25 (or some other combo greater/less than 1 minute) if you don't want exact minutes cycling for each turn?

[HintJ]

ORIGINAL: diablo1

60 seconds really was a bit too long to bite ones fingernails

That's what made it so good! The suspense!

Anyway, I think it all comes down to how you approach it. If you look at it like one of your friends made a kick-ass toy-train scenery set, and he had these little tanks that moved on their own like Electric Football, then it is a blast! Of course, the units in PC have a good bit more A.I. than Electric Football players. (BTW, Electric Football is perhaps the original old-school WEGO! Hey, isn't the game football itself really just a WEGO game?--U.S. football, I mean.)

[Ratzki]

I'm gonna date myself a bit here,... are you talking the electric football of old where the whole field vibrated and moved the players around?

[HintJ]

Of course!

edit...I never played table-top wargames; Electric Football was a table-top game for me. Yeah, it sucked when the figures didn't go the intended direction, so some players create their own "reaction phases," by pausing every so many seconds, and re-directing the figures!

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: HintJ

I always thought of the reaction phase as a stop-gap for overriding questionable decisions made by the AI. Maybe in PC4 having a 40:20 or 30:30 ratio is a good idea? Maybe even 45:25 (or some other combo greater/less than 1 minute) if you don't want exact minutes cycling for each turn?

Actually the design intent was:

Orders once every 80 seconds.
These are at the *platoon level* and are meant to be integrated and coordinated by the platoon leader.

Reaction once every 40 seconds
Thease are at the *squad level* are are meant to be reactions that an individual squad memeber could take (like switch targets, or pull out of a bad situation).

Now with SOP (which is user setable) and better reaction targetting by the tacAI, the AI will do a pretty good job of making internal reaction decisions every 5-10 seconds or so. It may not be perfect, but seems to work well and is believable.

You still have the option as a human to "inject" a reaction decision every 40s.

S.

[Ratzki]

I haven't thought about my electronic football game in years. I am gonna have to ask my Mother about it, every now and then she finds something of mine as she roots around in the crawlspace. She found an old E.T. bobble-head dash ornament a couple months ago. My kids love it when I bring stuff like that home. Last year Stretch-Armstrong made his way back into my life, my little ones stretch him all over the place now.

[diablo1]

ORIGINAL: HintJ

ORIGINAL: diablo1

60 seconds really was a bit too long to bite ones fingernails

That's what made it so good! The suspense!

Anyway, I think it all comes down to how you approach it. If you look at it like one of your friends made a kick-ass toy-train scenery set, and he had these little tanks that moved on their own like Electric Football, then it is a blast! Of course, the units in PC have a good bit more A.I. than Electric Football players. (BTW, Electric Football is perhaps the original old-school WEGO! Hey, isn't the game football itself really just a WEGO game?--U.S. football, I mean.)

Well my favorite electric football game was Electronic Talking Football. It had these lil records that had offensive play on one side and then the defensive player had all these choices on his side of the record and when he found the one he liked he pressed it into this mini record player and it would tell what happened. Like one of my favorites "It's a LEAPING INTERCEPTION .....TOUCHDOWN!" So it was more IgoUgo.

[HintJ]

ORIGINAL: Ratzki

I haven't thought about my electronic football game in years. I am gonna have to ask my Mother about it, every now and then she finds something of mine as she roots around in the crawlspace. She found an old E.T. bobble-head dash ornament a couple months ago. My kids love it when I bring stuff like that home. Last year Stretch-Armstrong made his way back into my life, my little ones stretch him all over the place now.

They don't make toys like they used to. Most current Electric Football games are made in China and very flimsy.

Of course, if you tell someone that plays Electric Football today that he's playing a WEGO game, you'll likely get some strange looks. And yes, they have current rules--some w/pauses for "reaction phases."

"When I was young, I wanted an electric football machine more than anything else in the world, and my parents bought it for me, and it was the happiest day of my life."--Homer Simpson

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: diablo1
....While I'm thinking about it what about the command phase for moving units do all the units still move when you move the leader/HQ unit of a group? I remember this was a pain in the origional game. If you just wanted to move one unit in a group you had to issue orders to the HQ first and then go back to each individual unit to move them "separately"?? Is this still the same?

this actually depends on what order your units started the phase with. If your sub-units already had an Engage order (either Engage-move or Engage-->Fire, then issueing an Engage--Move order to the HQ unit will not change the orders for the other squads. If you want them all to change to the new Engage--Move order you can hold down the cntrl key when issuing the HQ the new order, otherwise the other squads will keep the same Engage order they had.

If your sub units (or the HQ) had a Defend, or Advance order, and you changed it to Engage -- Move, then yes the the sub-units would all get the new Engage-move order, and if you wanted some of the to hold in place to provide cover fire you would need to issue them the Engage hold or Engage target individually.

Thanks
rick