Battle AAR

[budd]

Continue to bring up the late arriving units.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

Continue to bring up the late arriving units.

Looks like you're going to need them.

Rick

[budd]

ORIGINAL: Rick

ORIGINAL: **budd**

Continue to bring up the late arriving units.

Looks like you're going to need them.

Rick

yea i needed them and a anti-stupid pill[;)]

I finished the battle so some shots to follow. I really got my ass handed to me. For some reason i thought the battle would end somewhere around turn 35,I pushed too much ..the battle actually went 52 turns but i was combat ineffective after pretty much turn 35. How do you know how long you have... i don't remember seeing it in the briefing? and i read the briefing for the 3rd battle already and don't see a turn limit.
My arty use sucked...not so much smoke which i used ok...but getting effective HE fire plotted. I just pushed too fast and payed for it and couldn't get enough favorable odds against the t-34's and KV's ...going 1 on 1 in 41 is not the answer.

I am wondering if you guys know about tight space pathing problem. It's happened to me a number of times usually when trying to withdraw but basically anytime trying to move tanks in tight spaces that don't appear that tight when looking at it. The tanks go forward and back over and over again or back and forward. looks like trying to find a path, but when watching it looks like there is plenty of room. The last time it happened it was my tank trying to withdraw between a tree and a knocked out tank. It went back then forward ...repeat...until knocked out by a T-34. Also a squad i had killed during battle showed up in the after battle screen alive and well in a foxhole my men had occupied after killing the squad
I could probably get you a video of the forward and back stuff if you wanted to see it, i'm not sure i still have that save. It happens quite often when in close quarters with armor.

Ok i'll post the shots of my disgraceful performance next.

[budd]

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[budd]

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[budd]

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[rickier65]

I have seen the back and forth movement, trying to plot a path around or through obstacles. When it happens to me, I sometimes give it a turn or two to figure out a path. But if I'm in a hurry give it a different destination. You can use the 5 (on keyboard not number pad) key to display the terrain it's trying to maneuver around.

Actually, I'm impressed you only suffered a marginal defeat. It looks like it was close. I thought if you loft a battle you couldn't proceed with the campaign. Maybe that was changed.

PCO doesn't have an arbitrary turn limit. Though scenario designers can create one through the use of VP awards after a certain number of turns. But it that isn't done, then the battle can run for a while. That battle looked pretty close to me.

If you want an easier campaign, try the 3rd Panzer Div. (maybe too easy though).

good luck

Rick

[rickier65]

also have you tired the different settings for antialiasing and anisotropic filter to see if that helped with your fonts? mine don't look nearly as fuzzy as yours.

Rick

[budd]

well so far since i started playing again i haven't won[:D]. The battle didn't feel close at all, Trying to take out the t-34's and KV's with german 41 tanks isn't easy[nor should it be] I played the Stalingrad battle 3 times to learn the game again and i always got caught on the short end when time ran out, so i pushed way to fast on this one. I got a better feel now for what controls to use in what circumstances, so the russkies will pay[;)]
Naw i don't want an easy campaign, i made a lot of mistakes and hopefully i won't keep repeating them. I am having a hard time getting the arty to fall in an effective area. Seems like i work a unit into LOS and it dies or suppresses or retreats before i can plot the arty. It's nice feature that some of your tanks get recovered to fight again in the next battle of the campaign.....i'm really enjoying the game and that was a tough battle.....nice one Mobius....i was always expecting the russian tanks to show up, but just as i figured they would be no big show of tanks except the ones on the left...wham. I wished the AI would of tried to recapture the center VP...not sure i could of held on to it. On to battle #3

p.s. i'll try the settings and see if it clears up my fonts.

[Mobius]

The second battle, Voin, is the hardest of that campaign. Attacking is harder than defending.

In the real Voin battle the Germans got punished in the first advance, then fell back to their 88mm and 105mm guns which saved the day for them. Only after those thinned out the T-34s were the Germans able to gain ground.

[budd]

other than the counter attack by the AI after i grabbed one of the VP's in town on the left the center units pretty much stayed put and the AI never tried to recapture the center town VP. I was wondering about the 105 it just showed up on map after a few turns in that location left of the road where i started. It had some LOS toward the center but the AI never tried to cross that area after i took out the initial BT-7's i used it for smoke and it did get a couple shots off at AI units at the center tree line before it got taken out by a previously unseen ATG on its left. Anyway to set it up when units that are stationary arrive on the battle field that you can place them in a defined setup zone so you can have some choice of placement?

[Mobius]

Most reinforcements are movable units so the player can move from their initial positions. This scenario is the only one I can think of that non-movable units come on a reinforcements.
In reality the Germans were pushed off the map region and an 88mm unit had to try to stem the Russians. When these were destroyed a 105mm artillery piece guarding the river crossing the Germans used stopped the T-34s. That part of the battle really happend south of the map. So in this scenario the 88mm and 105mm are there just to backstop the Germans if they need it.

OTOH, north of Voin, there was a couple of Russian 85mm AA guns hiding in a woods. It is believed, but not confirmed some German tanks around Perviy Voin were lost to those guns. So this was quite a meat grinder battle.

[budd]

Finished battle number 3

Played a little slower and used the orders a little better and had an improved result. Of course none of that made taking out the t-34's or KV's any easier.


I own the flag in the center on the road. I end up losing that flag, but regain it by battle end. I have 7 tanks and 1 222 fixed at start on that road. I end up losing them all, tried to get them out but wasn't expecting forces in the trees right behind them at start, AT gun, At infantry, and infantry with russian tanks coming across the open field to finish them off. In the deployment zone i have only infantry and half tracks and a squad of mg's. Except for 3 squads W/transport i use them all to take and clear that town left of the deployment zone. The town is clear and the defense is setup by turn 18. A few turns into the game i receive 12 more tanks in the deployment zone. Which i take and hit the russian tanks in the flank as there crossing the open field toward the flag on the road. My tanks couldn't take out the russian tanks to save their life.In fact i was in full pullback mode, i had enemy tanks coming across the open field toward the road VP and tanks at the top heading toward my town VP. Like a gift from above i received some AT gun reinforcement, first a couple 88's and then some PAK's . The AT's sure saved the day, i was toast if they didn't show up. It was a hell of a back and forth battle. Here's some screens.

map at setup


My tanks couldn't take out the enemy tanks but the stukas got 3


here's 1 of the 88's 4 dead enemies in one 40 second turn, saved my ass.


I lost count how many bounced off this tank, a pak shot finally takes it out later. Tank carnage in the back round.


View from one of my surviving tanks surveying the carnage in the open field.


And the result. Tough battle.

[rickier65]

You're already doing better than I did the last time I tried that campaign.

Rick

[budd]

I was dead meat if those AT guns didn't show up. The 41 german tanks just cant get kills on the t-34/Kv. it's tough to get a rear shot, but i managed to get plenty of flank shots on those monsters and still ...ping..ping...ping. Hey i only lost 10 tanks during that battle[:D] finally was on the winning end of the tank casualties. my time was so hit and miss that i didnt really get an decent AAR done, going to show more of a blow by blow for the next one hopefully. I've already been looking at the map and making plans. The fact that i no confidence in my tanks getting kills on the enemy tanks defiantly is affecting my plans. I don't know if this is by design [i wouldn't think so] but looking at the map for the next battle with the terrain layer there are triangle's marking the gunpits and seemed to be pointing the direction there facing. I 'll post a screen soon.

[budd]

On to the next battle

Here's the briefing and area.



Here's the plan. Going up the middle is out, to exposed. Trying to take a concealed approach and limit the directions of fire of the enemy. So it was the left or the right. I chose the right. The approach is more concealed because of the terrain and it limits the directions of fire for the enemy the most.. So i'll push up the right after clearing the woods in front of me on the right. Too many times i have been caught at the start with enemies right up in my face and pot shotting me at the start. My lack of preserving my core is costing me now. I have 7 tanks left and there were none available on the purchase screen. No off board arty[damn] I have some pak's a 105, and a 88, none on the map at start so smoke will have to wait. I do have 50mm mortar but i'll have to clear the woods and find him a good spot. I'll use infantry backed up by halftracks to clear the woods, everything else will wait behind the tree line. All i can do with my meager forces is plan 1 VP at a time and see how it goes. Hopefully by the time the woods are clear the AT's will have arrived.
The red stars are the gunpit locations and the yellow stars are where i hope to place infantry and my mortar to visually cover my left, the yellow arrows show the slop of the terrain. Not sure i have enough of a force to keep much of a reserve. Once the woods are clear i'll send out the 222's to scout forward, hopefully after some smoke.


Terrain layer [Rick see the triangles, there right where the gunpits are.]


Here's a shot up the right where i will be advancing.


Hope to start soon.

[budd]

Question for Mobius.... so you say when those AT guns arrive on map i can place them in a deployment area? Not just live with where they get dropped. sometimes i'll miss the message that reinforcements have arrived for a phase or too, especially if i'm far forward.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

Question for Mobius.... so you say when those AT guns arrive on map i can place them in a deployment area? Not just live with where they get dropped. sometimes i'll miss the message that reinforcements have arrived for a phase or too, especially if i'm far forward.

No. You can't move them. During setup you can see about where they are going to be on the mini-map if you click them.

[budd]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

ORIGINAL: **budd**

Question for Mobius.... so you say when those AT guns arrive on map i can place them in a deployment area? Not just live with where they get dropped. sometimes i'll miss the message that reinforcements have arrived for a phase or too, especially if i'm far forward.

No. You can't move them. During setup you can see about where they are going to be on the mini-map if you click them.

How do i do that? there not in my force list at setup start.Can't find anything in the manual.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

....
How do i do that? there not in my force list at setup start.Can't find anything in the manual.

I think he means during the initial scenario setup screen where you can adjust your forces. if you click on the unit in the selection panel, it's location will show in the minimap below.

Thanks
Rick