Unbalanced random campaign forces

[NZgunner]

I've started to play a few random campaigns but I'm getting a bit frustrated by the balance of core units.

Both the 1st and 7th Panzer Division campaigns are too 'tank heavy' in my opinion - one platoon of infantry is essentially meaningless with opportunities for combined arms pretty much non-existent.

The infantry campaign is the opposite - not enough AFVs to make it interesting with painfully slow battles.

It wouldn't take much tweaking, just swapping a single platoon of vehicles for infantry (or vice versa) would do it.

[ComradeP]

Why take something away? We're using about 1/12 of a Panzer divisions's authorized number of tanks, but only a minimal part of the motorized infantry. Adding, say, two more PzG platoons (with trucks) for a total of 9 squads would restore that balance.

[junk2drive]

In regards to tweaking, if you read the Random Battle and Campaign Generator document it will tell you how to make your own force makeups.

If you are afraid of tackling this yourself, tell me what you want and I'll see what I can put together this weekend.

[junk2drive]

Here is the 1st Panzer Div 1941 short campaign that I added a platoon of PzGrenadiers and 251 HTs to the core.

Place the J2D file in your Data\Random Campaigns folder and the j German files in your Data\Battles folder. Then run the RCG for the J2D campaign. After it creates, scroll to the bottom of the campaign list to the 1st PZ Div Campaign. I only played the first battle for one turn to see if it worked. No guarantee that it won't crash later but it should work.

[NZgunner]

From reading the doc it seems as though I need to edit the xml for each battle generated by the random campaign, ie the stuff between the coreunits tags, the example below is from the 1st Pz Div.

So if I was to modify the third to last entry to remove the probability stuff (probability="A=0;D=0.25"), that unit would appear in the battle - but I'd have to modify the xml for every battle to make it a campaign-wide change. Have I got that right?

It would obviously be preferable to edit something that then caused the core units section of the xml to flow through automatically to all the randomly created battles for a given campaign - but I take it that isn't possible?

<coreunits>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="HQ 2/1-1 Panzer" unitid="Pz Kpfw IIIG"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="5" number="4" unitname="2/2/1-1 Panzer" unitid="Pz Kpfw IIIG"/>
<unit exp="Elite" max="4" number="3" unitname="2/1/1-1 Panzer" unitid="Pz Kpfw IVE"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="3" number="2" unitname="1/2/1-1 PzGren" unitid="Pz Grenadier 41"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="3" number="2" unitname="1/2/1-1 Transport" unitid="Sd Kfz 251"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="1/1-1 Aufkl" unitid="Sd Kfz 222"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="6" number="6" unitname="2/1-1 81mm Mortar" unitid="81mm Mortar" probability="A=0.17;D=0.33"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="4" number="4" unitname="105mm Artillery" unitid="105mm Artillery" probability="A=0.17;D=0.33"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="4" number="4" unitname="150mm Artillery" unitid="150mm Artillery" probability="A=0.08;D=0.17"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="JU-87 Stuka" unitid="JU-87 Stuka" probability="A=0.2;D=0.3"/> <unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="88mm FlaK" unitid="FlaK 36" probability="A=0.1;D=0.2"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="2/1-1 Aufkl" unitid="Sd Kfz 222" probability="A=0.05;D=0"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="3/1-1 Aufkl" unitid="Sd Kfz 231" probability="A=0.05;D=0"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="2/1-1 HMG" unitid="MG34 HMG Team" probability="A=0;D=0.25"/> <unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="2a/1-1 Transport" unitid="Sd Kfz 251" probability="A=0.05;D=0.05"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="3" number="3" unitname="2/1-1 Light Mortar" unitid="50mm GW36 Mortar" probability="A=0;D=0.1"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="3" number="3" unitname="2b/1-1 Transport" unitid="Sd Kfz 251" probability="A=0.05;D=0.05"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="1/1-1 Pioneer" unitid="Pioneer 41" probability="A=0.1;D=0.05"/> <unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="1a/1-1 Transport" unitid="Opel Blitz" probability="A=0.05;D=0.05"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="3" number="2" unitname="1/1-1 Assault Gun" unitid="StuG IIIB" probability="A=0.05;D=0.05"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="5" number="4" unitname="Le/2/1-1 Panzer" unitid="Pz Kpfw IIB" probability="A=0.1;D=0.05"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="3" number="2" unitname="2/2/1-1 PzGren" unitid="Pz Grenadier 41" probability="A=0;D=0.25"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="1/1-37 Anti-Tank Platoon" unitid="PaK 36" probability="A=0;D=0.1"/>
<unit exp="Veteran" max="2" number="2" unitname="2/1-37 Anti-Tank Platoon" unitid="Pak 38" probability="A=0;D=0.1"/>
</coreunits>

[junk2drive]

What I did

Rename a copy of RC xml with J2D in front. Add j space to each battle listed. Save as... J2D etc

Open each battle. Add j to every instance of file name. Copy and paste first PzG and 251 lines and rename 2/2/1-1 Save as... j German etc

Later battles have PzG and 251. 251 named 2b/2/1-1 so I renamed PzG to 2b/2/1-1 and added the above then Save as... j German etc

This way you have the extra platoon every battle. The probability lines are reinforcements.

[NZgunner]

Thanks for this, would be nice to see a more elegant way of doing it (even if it was just editing one file) in an update at some point in the future - assuming more people see it as an issue.

[junk2drive]

Something like the scenario editor but for creating campaigns. That would be nice. It did not seem to take that long for me to do what I did. I have never done it before either. Once you decide on a core force, it shouldn't take very long to open an existing campaign as a guide and create your own. Depend on how creative and ambitious you are I guess.

Maybe people will make their favorites and share.

[NZgunner]

OK - you've inspired me.

I'm going to attempt to make a Großdeutschland random campaign.

I think I know what I'm doing apart from one thing - how do you upgrade units? eg from Fall '43 I want to have some Tigers as core units.

I can see in the Battles folder files with (Upgrade) in their name, and on casual inspection the xml seems to be similar to other battles except there are different vehicles etc. If you keep the unitname the same, but change the unitid, does this mean the experience (medals etc) of the previous unit carry over?

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: nzgunner
OK - you've inspired me.
I'm going to attempt to make a Großdeutschland random campaign.

Excellent!

I think I know what I'm doing apart from one thing - how do you upgrade units? eg from Fall '43 I want to have some Tigers as core units.
I can see in the Battles folder files with (Upgrade) in their name, and on casual inspection the xml seems to be similar to other battles except there are different vehicles etc. If you keep the unitname the same, but change the unitid, does this mean the experience (medals etc) of the previous unit carry over?

Yes, the most important thing is that for the core units (which are the ones that carry over and earn experience and medals) that you keep the unit name _exactly_ the same in each file. Then they will carry forward without an issue. When the historical upgrades happen, as long as the unit name is the same, the equipment can upgrade and they will keep their experience and medals.

One of the tricky parts is getting the points formula right and making sure it's balanced for a longer campaign, including any historical points where reinforcements might have been received (which should give the player enough points to replace some losses before the battle). The existing 1st Panzer and 7th Panzer files should give you some pretty good examples and formulas to work from.

Regards,

- Erik

[junk2drive]

I think dazoline's new RBG mod will do all of this for us once you mod one xml in his program folder.

[NZgunner]

I was just looking at that - but does it enable core units to be upgraded?

[junk2drive]

Not sure. Maybe Rick knows, he has made campaigns.

Wish list from readme (partial)

- Allow purchasing of core units using a new UI.
- Must regulate the availability and points for purchase.
- Must be able to do this for upgrades and keep the unit names correct.

[dazoline II]

ORIGINAL: nzgunner

I was just looking at that - but does it enable core units to be upgraded?

Yes, take a look at one of the longer campaigns, you will see multiple core tags, each core tag is assigned an upgrade and lists the scenariso where it takes place.

[Nemo84]

Is there an overview somewhere of all the units in the game, together with their points cost (for balancing purposes)?

I'd like a 41-45 campaign focused on a core consisting of a few platoons of panzergrenadiers supported by stug assault guns, armoured cars, tank destroyers and stuff like that. Lot's of vehicles, just all of them light armour or non-turreted tanks. And then upgrade that stuff a couple of times throughout the campaign. It doesn't need to be historically correct, I just want a campaign with a bunch of my favourite German units. But I don't even have the tiniest clue how to start, how to keep it balanced or even what my unit options are.

Some help with the latter would be much appreciated, as it would no doubt aid me in figuring out the rest.

[dazoline II]

The only unit overview that I've found is the two folders in Data called ArmouredUnits and Infantry. In there you will find a whole wack of folders and XML files. The XML file detail the specs of each unit including points while the folders hold the images.

You can get a campaign with core units as you've detailed either by using the out of the box XML campaign and battle files or using my random generator mod. The advantage my mod has over the OOTB release is you only have change one XML file to get the core units to change in every battle.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

Is there an overview somewhere of all the units in the game, together with their points cost (for balancing purposes)?

I'd like a 41-45 campaign focused on a core consisting of a few platoons of panzergrenadiers supported by stug assault guns, armoured cars, tank destroyers and stuff like that. Lot's of vehicles, just all of them light armour or non-turreted tanks. And then upgrade that stuff a couple of times throughout the campaign. It doesn't need to be historically correct, I just want a campaign with a bunch of my favourite German units. But I don't even have the tiniest clue how to start, how to keep it balanced or even what my unit options are.

Some help with the latter would be much appreciated, as it would no doubt aid me in figuring out the rest.

You can also look at the Scenario Editor itself. You can browse through buttons to see wht units are available in a given year. And there is a PID button that shows the unit specs, including the points. You can also get a report of the total point value of your core force that way.

For balancing purposes, you can see how the Battle Files are built using a formula for the opposing points based on the points you have a available for a given battle. You can experiment with these and see if you want to tweak them for a different balance.

Thanks
rick

Thanks
rick