New WW II Movie- Enemy at the Gates

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sat Jan 06, 2001 10:36 am

Tonight at the movies I saw the preview of a new movie coming out in Feb. It is "Enemy at the Gates". It is about the sniper duel that occured during the Battle of Stalingrad, based upon the book w/ the same name. The scenes looked pretty good (at least the panaramic scenes did). Hopefully it will be good.
Semper Fi
Randy

Marcus Wendel · Post by **Marcus Wendel** » Sun Jan 07, 2001 2:49 pm

Too bad that duel never happend.

Here is what Anthony Beevor (author of Stalingrad) had to say:
"Indeed, the whole story of the sniper duel is fiction. There is absolutely no trace in
the German military archives or SS records of SS officer Heinz Thorwald.
Also there is absolutely no report of the duel in the Red Army files which concentrated
on sniper activities (the daily reports of the Political Department of Stalingrad Front to Moscow)
This great story can be classified as Sovjet propaganda."

The quote below is from a BBC News article:
"Mr Beevor, whose acclaimed tome Stalingrad is rapidly becoming the definitive text on the battle, said while Zaitsev was a real figure there was no evidence to support the existence of Koenig.
He said: 'I've been through the Soviet Ministry of Defence's archive in Podolsk and there is no record of such a duel.'
'If it had taken place the Soviet propaganda machine would have leapt on it.'"

(Note. Koenig and Thorwald are the names usually given to the German)

/Marcus
Third Reich Factbook

Fabs · Post by **Fabs** » Sun Jan 07, 2001 7:43 pm

Who cares if it did or did not happen? It's a good story.

It would not be the first time that a War movie fabricates a story completely.

SPR managed that quite well, as the Ramelle episode not only never happened, but was totally untipical of the fighting in Normandy.

Who's starring, and who's the Director?

von Curow · Post by **von Curow** » Sun Jan 07, 2001 7:57 pm

I think the most disappointing thing about the story (which isn't even part of the Soviet propaganda story) is the inclusion of a romance with a Russian/American... It may still be a good story/book/movie, but it won't be terribly realistic.

I'll still watch it, though.

BruceAZ · Post by **BruceAZ** » Sun Jan 07, 2001 10:16 pm

The book was excellent.

Semper Fi

------------------
"The most important element in war is man. And there are no tougher men than my China Marines." Major Gen. Archer 'Archy' Vandegrift, 1st Marine Division

Dutch · Post by **Dutch** » Sun Jan 07, 2001 10:50 pm

Is this a non American movie?

Peregrine Falcon · Post by **Peregrine Falcon** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 2:08 am

Originally posted by Dutch:
Is this a non American movie?

It is made in USA, directed by Jean-Jacques Annaud, but I doubt that we see
any US-soldiers in Stalingrad.....
(well, Hollywood IS inventive, but I dont think they would go so far

)

Personally I hate movies where Germans/Russians speak english with heavy accent, but also Ed Harris is one of my favorite actors so.....We'll see

And oh! Also I hate war movies that include weepy love stories! No please!

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 2:13 am

I read the book years ago and cannot wait till the movie is available. Still trying to get "Winter War" also.

Wild Bill

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Toey · Post by **Toey** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 2:43 am

The actual book is called:-
'War of the Rats'

There is also a book called Enemy at the Gates about the batle of Stalingrad.

However, the sniper duel is fictional. Good book though.

suffer8085 · Post by **suffer8085** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 2:47 am

Actually the book is called "War of the Rats" by david L Robbins. So they are making a movie on it, woderful, very interesting book. I started reading it because of the book "199 days: the battle for stalingrad" by edwin p hoyt. this book go into some detail about the three main characters, tania, thorwald, and vaitsev. i believe it is on page 171, and it seems that yeah, they were just folk heroes, pretty cool anyways. intersting book. I take it all of you have seen the movie stalingrad? great film by the makers of das boot.

suffer8085 · Post by **suffer8085** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 2:49 am

shit, sorry, i stated what had been stated, enemy at the gates is also by david l robbins, but it is set at the battle for berlin. sorry for confusing it

Panzer Capta · Post by **Panzer Capta** » Mon Jan 08, 2001 6:37 am

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
I read the book years ago and cannot wait till the movie is available. Still trying to get "Winter War" also.

Wild Bill

WB, "The Winter War" is, in my opinion, the finest war movie ever made. You can order this movie from Belle-and-Blade.com (BelleandBlade.com will get you there too). Do not miss this one!!!!!!

1stlt · Post by **1stlt** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 4:23 am

I am not sure but I do believe I might have read Soviet sniper confronting German sniper during the battle of Stalingard, it might have been Paul Carell's "Hitler Moves East", the first halve of his Eastern Front set; the second one covers the year 1943-1944 and titled "Scorched Earth".

"Hitler Moves East" might be out of print but could still be located in some libraries.

Wonderful books!

zombie · Post by **zombie** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 8:49 am

Actually, I have heard a lot of german vets ( some of whem I think were at stalingard ) say the book is false, historical fiction anyway at most.

http://www.feldgrau.com/

check out the forums there.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 6:33 pm

The scenario that I have read is that the German commander of the sniper school near Berlin, was sent to Stanlingrad. The Soviets started losing a lot of their own snipers in one area, learned of the German's presence from a POW and sent their own sniper to get the German. The Sovier sniper had a comissar with him. The comissar moved and was shot, the Soviet sniper observed to his front and eventually saw a glint from under some rubble. He fired and took out the German thu his scope (similar to Saving Pvt. Ryan).

I read this recently, in a respected military source but I can not remember my source right now.

So, is this the story that is supposed to be fiction?

------------------
An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.

Major_Johnson · Post by **Major_Johnson** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 6:41 pm

You know I saw a History Channel show on snipers just the other week and I swear I remember them talking about this. Are you sure this never happened?? It was a good show by the way. Covered the history of sniping from the Civil War right up unto today. They said that US snipers w/lots of kills during the Vietnam war had a bounty on their head by the North Veitnamese. Come to think of it, their might have been a sniper "dual" then.

------------------
MJ
We serve others best when at the same time we serve ourselves.

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:43 pm

William Craig wrote "Enemy at the Gates". I am looking at my copy right now as I research a scenario.

Originally posted by suffer8085:
shit, sorry, i stated what had been stated, enemy at the gates is also by david l robbins, but it is set at the battle for berlin. sorry for confusing it

------------------
Grenadier
Matrix Games Technical Writer

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:47 pm

You never know. James Coburn played a German Sgt in the Kuban in Sam Pekinpah's "Cross of Iron"

Originally posted by Peregrine Falcon:
It is made in USA, directed by Jean-Jacques Annaud, but I doubt that we see
any US-soldiers in Stalingrad.....
(well, Hollywood IS inventive, but I dont think they would go so far )

------------------
Grenadier
Matrix Games Technical Writer

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:52 pm

There is no mention of the sniper dual in "Hitler Moves East" The book is available at Fedorowicz. I have the original from Little, Brown with the color photos. I just finished looking at it for a scenario research for Combat Leader for a battle in Stalingrad.

Originally posted by 1stlt:
I am not sure but I do believe I might have read Soviet sniper confronting German sniper during the battle of Stalingard, it might have been Paul Carell's "Hitler Moves East", the first halve of his Eastern Front set; the second one covers the year 1943-1944 and titled "Scorched Earth".

"Hitler Moves East" might be out of print but could still be located in some libraries.

Wonderful books!

------------------
Grenadier
Matrix Games Technical Writer

Supervisor · Post by **Supervisor** » Tue Jan 09, 2001 9:54 pm

That is how it is written about in The Craig book"Enemy at the Gates"

Originally posted by Larry Holt:
The scenario that I have read is that the German commander of the sniper school near Berlin, was sent to Stanlingrad. The Soviets started losing a lot of their own snipers in one area, learned of the German's presence from a POW and sent their own sniper to get the German. The Sovier sniper had a comissar with him. The comissar moved and was shot, the Soviet sniper observed to his front and eventually saw a glint from under some rubble. He fired and took out the German thu his scope (similar to Saving Pvt. Ryan).

I read this recently, in a respected military source but I can not remember my source right now.

So, is this the story that is supposed to be fiction?

------------------
Grenadier
Matrix Games Technical Writer