Extra german forces in H2H

Alby · Post by **Alby** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:42 am

which country has the rest of the german forces...is it norway??
and how can you tell if they are actually german or norway units?

thanks

m10bob · Post by **m10bob** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:01 am

Two weeks ago I asked Leo where the German Bren AT unit was and he told me to look in Norway..FWIW..

Alby · Post by **Alby** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:49 am

Ive seen some strange things in norway oob
Panther 2 listed as light tank
Panther F listed as same
2 different king tigers
has anyone looked at this oob?

would it not be better to eliminate one of the never used smaller countries for extra german units, rather than mixing them up with an existing oob?

too late now I reckon

I ask because in an email game I am playing against the germans,
I am suddenly facing the Maus, panther 2, panther F and wondered where the hell they came from!!!

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:40 am

Originally posted by Alby

I ask because in an email game I am playing against the germans,
I am suddenly facing the Maus, panther 2, panther F and wondered where the hell they came from!!!

Sounds like your opponent did a PBEM
no-no; using the 'Nations' button without pre-battle approval.

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:26 am

Originally posted by tracer
Sounds like your opponent did a PBEM
no-no; using the 'Nations' button without pre-battle approval.

Yep,...all the stuff in the Norway OOB is either extremely rare or what-if material.

So no-one should use it without negotiating about it with his opponent. That's why I sorted out all this stuff, to get pretty realistic forces setup within the normal German OOB (and because it was too small, ofcourse).
There're units that will not influence balance, but Sturmtigers and the like do not belong into a normal PBEM, IMHO.

General notes on the Norwegian OOB:

This OOB is a German OOB from '41 on...Exp, Morale and Leadership ratings are German ratings till '49.
The only things different from German units might be the names...but many of the Norwegian names can also be found in Germany...so not even a real setback.

The Norwegian OOB contains the following kinds of units:

- rare German wartime equipement like 75mm squeeze bore AT-gun
- captured equipement
- uncommon artillery, like 88 used in indirect role
- infantry (not really rare...just to fill in the gaps from the normal OOB), like SS with captured LMG
- what-if stuff for post 5/45 battles

Do not care about a unit class. If a Panther F is listed as "light tank", it's only there to create a units purchase menue for it...it doesn't have to say anything...

For all what-if freaks, German units after 5/45:

- Kingtiger with infra red vision
- Panther F with Schmalturm
- AT-missile "Rotkäppchen" (wire-guided AT-missile)
- Jet dive-bomber HS-132 (a Stuka with jet engine)
- Infantry with Panzerfaust 150

Alby · Post by **Alby** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:07 pm

Thanks for the info Leo!

o4r · Post by **o4r** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:03 pm

Originally posted by Alby
Ive seen some strange things in norway oob
Panther 2 listed as light tank
Panther F listed as same
2 different king tigers
has anyone looked at this oob?

would it not be better to eliminate one of the never used smaller countries for extra german units, rather than mixing them up with an existing oob?

too late now I reckon

I ask because in an email game I am playing against the germans,
I am suddenly facing the Maus, panther 2, panther F and wondered where the hell they came from!!!

I dunno why the 2 pather 2 is listed as light tank most likely a mistake Pather F is a duplicate but the 2 king tigers is reflecting the 2 different model made on the king tiger. One is from Porshe which is using a electrical turret and was rejected by Hilter. That why there is a denotation of (p). The other become the standard model.

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:30 am

Originally posted by o4r
I dunno why the 2 pather 2 is listed as light tank most likely a mistake Pather F is a duplicate but the 2 king tigers is reflecting the 2 different model made on the king tiger. One is from Porshe which is using a electrical turret and was rejected by Hilter. That why there is a denotation of (p). The other become the standard model.

2 Panther II ?

Duplicate ?

Don't get it...

The Panther II uses the same icon like the Panther F. The Panther II is a complete what-if vehicle. Although prototype hulls existed (picture shows a P-II hull with a late G-model turret), it most likely would never have seen production, even if the war lasted a year longer. The P-II is mainly a mixture of the Panther series and the Kingtiger.
The Panther F though would have been the next model to be produced. The first factories were already setting up for the new turret (the hull is still a G-type) and in mid '45 it would have been started in mass production.

As I said, don't worry about the "light tank" class. I picked it, to get a clean purchase. The "medium tank" and "main battle tank" classes are already used up by Kingtigers and a captured Sherman...and the Kingtiger is just a medium, because I needed the heavy tank class for the Elefant a.s.o. ...nothing that influences gameplay, just my way to sort things and to avoid double listings in the purchase...

BTW, I forgot to mention a complete what-if formation:

Kommando "Sperber"

A fully equipped infra-red vision task force with Panther "UHU", Sdkfz "Falke" and "UHU" and troops with StG 44 with night vision "Vampir"

stevemk1a · Post by **stevemk1a** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:42 am

A question regarding the "Kommando Sperber" ... is it available for purchase as complete unit in the new H2H? I can't seem to find it either in the Ger or Norway purchase screens ... I'm certainly not considering using it in pbems

he he!!, but I'm toying with the notion of a scenario for my own use involving this 'what if' unit. I've found two accounts of Panther Uhu's used in action in nighttime conditions ... one vs. a U.S. AT gun position, and one vs. British Comet tanks. Was the IR tanks, SPW's and infantry used in concert, or just the Panthers? .... What was the projected TOE of these units

I'm going to see what I can dig up, but I thought I'd throw a line in here too...

stevemk1a · Post by **stevemk1a** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:34 am

Ok - so from what I've seen, the Spw251's use of the IR spotlight increases the vision of the Panther Uhu's IR equipment from 100 meters to about 700 meters. Apparently, armoured shields were to be welded on the engine deck of the Panther Uhu to protect Vampir armed infantry riders ... Apparently the ad-hoc Panzer division "Clausewitz" was equipped with some IR Panthers and was responsable for the documented attacks on the American 3" AT gun position on the Elbe-Weser canal and the attack on the Brit Comet platoon. 116 Panzer division and "Muncheberg" Panzer division also got some "Uhu's", but no record of their use... interesting stuff ...

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:41 am

Yep, I don't know of any other reports...the so called Kommando "Sperber" is a fictional task force...similar plans existed, but actual use is not documented.

It consists of

- a Plt Panther UHU
- one Sdkfz 215 UHU with a big IR light, to increase range for all other IR receivers by illuminating targets (not possible to model - it just has a better IR range itself)
- a Platoon of Panzergrenadiere with Vampir scopes on their StG44
- transported in Sdkfz 251 Falke, that has IR for driver and commander

They can be found in the "Misc." in late '45

o4r · Post by **o4r** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:04 pm

Originally posted by Panzer Leo
Yep, I don't know of any other reports...the so called Kommando "Sperber" is a fictional task force...similar plans existed, but actual use is not documented.

It consists of

- a Plt Panther UHU
- one Sdkfz 215 UHU with a big IR light, to increase range for all other IR receivers by illuminating targets (not possible to model - it just has a better IR range itself)
- a Platoon of Panzergrenadiere with Vampir scopes on their StG44
- transported in Sdkfz 251 Falke, that has IR for driver and commander

They can be found in the "Misc." in late '45

I only knew that the US or British (cant remember which) had a tank that carry 2 large spot light, it is supposed to use with other tanks at nite. It will luminate the target and other tanks shoot at it. It was used once by the Russian, well the outcome is a joke. The tank with the spot light was always the first target to be shot at and destroyed. However it was used for river crossing where light is needed at nite.

Leo, is there a way maybe like totally destroyed a country and set them totally to another country? Like you use Norway, can it be set to the same status as German and convert all to German?

o4r · Post by **o4r** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:07 pm

Sometime war is a joke.

I remember reading sometime about the knee mortar of the Japanese. When the American first captured it, they translate the name to be knee mortar and when they used their knee to support the mortar for firing, they ended up in hospital.

Well actually the Japanese called them knee mortar because they carried them by strapping it to the knee not firing with it supporting on your knee.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:36 pm

Just saying thanks Panzer Leo
I ask you to incorporate the what if units for post 45 era and you did. Thanks a million.

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:35 am

Thanks Panzer Leo! I can't wait to try the final version of H2H!

Eric Maietta

Extra german forces in H2H

Extra german forces in H2H

IR task force