How can I edit Victory Objectives of more than 250 points?

Gallo Rojo · Post by **Gallo Rojo** » Thu Nov 22, 2001 10:33 pm

I have seen that in some Scenarios (Wild Will’s “Tiger’s Hunt” for example) victory objectives are valued on 1500 points. But when I edit Victory Objectives at the editor it does not allows me to go upper than 250 points <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
How can I give more than 250 points to Vics??
Tanks in advance

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Thu Nov 22, 2001 10:38 pm

Each objective has a max limit of 250 points, but you can stack them. So, you can end up with what looks like one VO, but with more than 250 points.

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Thu Nov 22, 2001 10:57 pm

Hi <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

You'll have go be VERY carefull while using VOs that have so much value. Test test and test. Quit /surrender/ save and open in Freds editor to see that AI does what it was planned to do. And after that you might think again: Do you really need so much for VO? Highvalued VOs attracts AI so much that with less thought in design AI can overrun your plans... But you can also use this against AI... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

mosh

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Nov 22, 2001 11:11 pm

The other danger (and one that irritates the heck out of me!) is not allowing enough points for a possible decisive victory.

Some designers use the point system against you, to keep a decisive or evena minor victory possible.

That is just not fair! To get that balance, however, you MUST (as Skukko says) test and retest. You can never test a scenario too much.

Warrior's answer is quite correct. Good to see you still in the game, Gallo Rojo. Saludos efusivos a ti y a todos los suyos!

Wild BIll (El Salvaje)

generalrichmond · Post by **generalrichmond** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 2:13 am

This is an area that I think really needs some attention and discussion, then one of those 'special edition' productions from Larry or Bill!

Seriously, what good is it if you have a strong scenario but the victory conditions are out of whack? It is a real pain to pretty much pull of a good manuever against strong odds and get a... DRAW.

Some of the 'types' of VP hex usages make it confusing. For example, exit hexes. First off, I think they have to have a value assigned to them (10 pts is minimum) for them to even show up on the map as an objective (with the flag). So then, does the player get 10 pts for this objective at end of game, or 10 pts + 3X unit value for every unit going off? That is, UV x 3 + 10 for every unit? Maybe don't assign a VP value and just put a big EXIT text marker on the map?

One other thing. In SP1, decisives could be had in the long campaign. But not in SPWaW (I guess because of unit values?). What is a good 'total VP value' to have onboard for this result? Guidelines are needed.

Personally, I need some pointers on balancing these things together. It drives me nuts.

[ November 22, 2001: Message edited by: General Richmond ]</p>

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 8:36 am

THere is also a "victory point scale" adjustment - the "V+" button that lets you adjust the victory point value of killed units from x0.1 to x25 THis can make the victory hexes worth more or less in relation to killed units for a particular scenario (this is an SP3 thing)

swagman · Post by **swagman** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 11:26 am

I've been looking over the editor trying to find how to place and edit Victory Hexes...but haven't found it.

The manual shows the VH menu, but I couldn't work out how to actually find my way into it.

Is it in the Map Editor?...or is there something else I am missing.

generalrichmond · Post by **generalrichmond** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 5:57 pm

It's in the Map Editor and comes up in the 'Deploy' screen. It's the 'Z' key (two red flags for the icon).

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 6:29 pm

Originally posted by General Richmond:
It is a real pain to pretty much pull of a good manuever against strong odds and get a... DRAW.

The Victory Hexes aren't the only things working in a scenario, point-wise. You can take all the VH's and still get a draw if your losses of men and equipment are high. I start with every VH at 100, test and see what the outcome is, adjust if necessary, and test some more. It's up to the designer to decide whether a decisive is possible. ANY outcome can be designed.

Fabs · Post by **Fabs** » Fri Nov 23, 2001 11:09 pm

You can increase the value of a VH immesurably by... making it score points per turn.

This can be tricky, but it does make for some interesting play. It places a new pressure on any attacker, who now will now that he doesn't have all the time in the world to capture those distant VHs.

To calibrate a game using this type of VH requires some easy wins and some difficult ones, and the right length of scenario for the numbers to pan out. Testing and re-testing is the only way to get it right.

Decisive victories should difficult to obtain in scenarios containing many turn based VHs. If they are easy for the defender you've placed the VHs too far or made the game too short, if they are easy for the attacker the reverse is true.

This system for scoring works very well for Infantry assaults in difficult terrain against strong positions, such as Bocage fighting, urban battles and so on. It reflects the nature of those kinds of fights, where individual small engagements were seldom decisive.

generalrichmond · Post by **generalrichmond** » Sat Nov 24, 2001 1:58 am

One thing I see reflected in games less often than it should is this: the value of crushing your opponent's force.

What I am saying is there are at times too many VP hexes and value placed on those. So many battles were decisive because of the incredible rout or damage inflicted on the enemy force. This would be represented by unit destruction value as opposed to VP hexes. Just a few hexes with good values seems more appropriate to me.