Italy sucks for me

[Goblin]

And others are saying it is not. I see absolutely nothing historical about ten men being in the kill zone of several 150mm+ rounds in an open field, and simply ignoring them while continuing to fight, despite the fact that they should be so much jelly flying through the air. 75mm rounds are now less dangerous than Misc Small Arms as a weapon (they still are even at 120%).
 
Artillery accounted for something like 70% of the casualties in the war give or take. Even at the full 100%, you are lucky to kill five men per battle, and only if you hit them with every battery you own.
 
The demeaning part of your post is stating your stance as fact and 'historical', when it is one opinion, while other's opinions are addressed as being 'addicted to the overpowered artillery', and incorrect. An opinion is just that.
 
 
Goblin 

[Goblin]

More information on the kill radius of various artillery, including burst radius (70yards for ww2 155 shells), safe distance (400 yards for a 155mm shell), and risk of becoming a casualty by terrain.



http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/crossfire ... illery.htm




Goblin

[robot]

Goblin exactly what im getting at no killing power. I recently hit an enemy squad in a hex with 6 81 morters firing at them plus 4 152s all on the same squad. I then moved up to take him out with my squad. they never even got to fire his first rounds took out 4 of my squad as I approached and then when i fired nothing happened and he fired again taking out another 3 then my squad ran for there lives. This is after at least over 30 rounds landed in the same square with the enemy squad. You would have thought that at least half of the enemy squad would have been dead by now and the rest digging holes to china. Not able to unleash so much fitrepower at my guys. I know they are Italians and the way I set up my guys only being 45 exp may be the culpert here but dam that shouldnt effect the way my artty shells go off or there damage do you think.

Goblin 75 MM or next to usless and shouldnt even be in the game no suppression and definatly no damage ever. An ATR section does more damage then them. This is my oppinion only and does not reflect the oppinion of the sponser.

[Alby]

As I stated guys, when the next hex damage was reduced, somehow the IN hex damage by direct fire also got effected..
fire a 150 INF gun directly at an Infantry squad now and almost nothing happens.

[vahauser]

Goblin,
 
I appreciate your taking the time to link that webpage on artillery.  I don't want to hijack this thread which was supposed to be about robot's Italian Campaign and turn it into a debate on artillery effectiveness.
 
I believe that what is the source of concern is "theory vs. reality".  I will compose a reply to your post and start a new thread so this thread can remain On-Topic.
 
My short answer for now, is that the only "real-life" example provided by the webpage you linked demonstrated that artillery was almost completely ineffective against Japanese fortifications, even though "theory" might have suggested otherwise.  More on this and related issues in a new thread coming soon.
 
I am sorry, robot, for taking this thread Off-Topic.

[robot]

No problem there Vahauser kind of enjoyed it. Alby is that in the enhanced version only or before in 8.4 this happened. Because ill tell you in this Italian campaign these guys need all the help they can get from there artty.[:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Alby]

It was done in the 8.4 mech i believe, but, it may have been 8.403.
 unfortunately it is in the 8.403 mech which Enhanced uses.
setting it at 120 works for me.
[:)]

[h_h_lightcap]

VAHAUSER---
 
I hate to say it, but Goblin is right[:@], and for many more reasons than he stated....Read a few first person accounts of WWI and WWII---arty ALONE could stop a major attack if it was sited in the right place.   In SPWAW at 100% is barely suppresses units.  Also, all the other versions of the game have lethal arty (SPWW2, SPH2H, etc)  are they all wrong or ahistorical????   Sorry, read up on this.  I dont have any websites to quote but a few good books would be COMPANY COMMANDER, BRAZEN CHARIOTS, and 1st person German accounts......
 
HH

[robot]

Guys I dont know how but i got draw. Even after the lopsided losses to the French. See my DAR on the losses. I did not take the front objectives even. The only way I can figure it is there troops were worth more then mine due to the experience lvls. Doesnt seem fair to me to call it a draw but i will take it as a gift like. I will not be able to repair any tanks i lost for my next battle but was able to get my lost men replaced. My next battle is a delay if i dont have too much trouble maybe I can recoup after this one.

[FlashfyreSP]

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Now I am even more confused. If I install the game. Clean install which means that nothing has yet been done to anything. Now lets say I turn “historical ratings” OFF. When I do that, then Player1 is at the default of 70 and Player2 is at the default of 70. If I then manually set Player1 to 45, then Player2 remains at 70 (if I do nothing to Player2) right?

You are correct.

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Well, FlashFyre stated in an earlier post that the French in Enhanced were 65/70/70 in 1940. And Robot replied, yes, he left the French at default and changed his TQ to 45. Somehow I think I got the terminology confused. Was robot saying he left the French at TQ70? And was FlashFyre saying the French should be TQ65? Hence my confusion as to what “default” meant.

No. There are 4 Ratings in the system, but only 1 Rating is shown in the Preference Screen field, and it overrides all the others. The 4 values are:
1. Leader Experience
2. Leader Morale
3. Troop Experience
4. Troop Morale
Each is set to a specific value in the mech.exe; each can be a different number. But the one shown in the Preference Screen, when the 'Historical Ratings' setting is turned off, is the Troop Experience value. If you use the Historic Ratings, with a 65/70/60/60, for example, your units will have Base 65 Leader EXP, Base 70 Leader MOR, Base 60 Troop EXP, and Base 60 Troop MOR. If you turn OFF the Historical Ratings, you switch to a 60/60/60/60 effective Base value, because the Troop Experience becomes the 'standard' setting, and overrides all the others.

In this case, robot turned OFF the Historic Ratings, thereby leaving the French side at the 70 Base Experience Level. The 'default' is 70 by code; if changed manually, it becomes the 'new' default for any games begun afterwards. Only by turning the 'Historic Ratings' back ON can you return to using the varied values in the mech.exe table.

ORIGINAL: vahuser

Now, as many of you know, TQ65 is actually superior to TQ70 due to the way purchase points are spent by the computer. Perhaps this is what FlashFyre was saying?

No, that is not what I was saying. But it is true in a way that Ratings of 69 and lower are more cost effective than Ratings of 70 and above; this is due to the Unit Cost Discount applied to units bought whose Base Rating is less than 70. At 70, the full OOB Unit Cost is paid; at <69, a 25% discount is applied, meaning these units only cost 75% of their OOB Unit Cost.

[Riun T]

Ok flash than who's #'s are the red ones indicated here for in my camp.??

[FlashfyreSP]

Those are US ratings, 'Historic Ratings' ON, 1943, 8.3 'vanilla' SPWAW.

[FlashfyreSP]

In Enhanced, those Base ratings would be: 65/70/60 for the same nation and year.

[Riun T]

I mean are those the #'s that my purchased support would start with?? and it says i'm playing 8.4 solitare[&:]

[FlashfyreSP]

Yes, those are the Base Ratings all your units start the 'purchase routine' with. The game then makes a random 'dice roll' to determine what the 'actual' EXP and MOR ratings are. That 'dice roll' is 4d6-2d6 added to the Base Rating.

So, for example: Your unit starts at 60; the 4d6 rolled are a 2,4, 4, 6 (total:16) and the 2d6 rolled are 5,3 (total:8).
16-8=8
60+8=68
You unit has a Rating of 68 when it shows on the Deploy screen.

Because of this random dice rolling, some units can end up with ratings greater than the next 'level': say the above example had rolls of 6,6,5,4 and 1,1. That's 21-2, or 19. Your unit now has a 79 rating, which is 2 'steps' above the Base rating level ('steps' move in increments of 5).