Operation Sealion AAR's

ubertechie · Post by **ubertechie** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 2:33 pm

Chief - no insult taken - actually made me laugh - funny how people sterotype - its human nature. Interesting fact for all you non brits is that apparently our national dish is now curry nad not fish and chips.....

Anyway hope that you do manage to kick some tommie butt and stil dont understand that mortar thing - will go and re-investigate

Thanks

Ubertechie

brianleeprice · Post by **brianleeprice** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 6:56 pm

Originally posted by ubertechie:
Anyway hope that you do manage to kick some tommie butt and stil dont understand that mortar thing - will go and re-investigate

If you can find the 'More Mortar Musings' thread (sorry I don't have a link to it) a few pages back somewhere on this forum, it explains it pretty well. Basically there is a known accuracy problem with weapon slots other than first when used for mortars in indirect fire.

The reason you may not have noticed it is that the latest v7.1 beta German OOB has the single tube per unit solution implemented - thus no accuracy problems.

Any v7.0 scenario which is heavily reliant on mortars will need to be reexamined after v7.1 is available in order to possibly add a mortar unit or two to the forces so that they have the correct number of tubes.

Hope this helps,
Brian

ubertechie · Post by **ubertechie** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 10:31 pm

Brian - thanks for the info - its not too much of a problem - it only effects the 50mm with the infantry squads and 3 81mm mortars - and i am using 7.1 so i havent noticed it.

Good to know that it has been fixed anyway

Thanks

Ubertechie

chief · Post by **chief** » Sat Feb 02, 2002 5:36 am

Aha ! Now the lite comes on, you designed game with 7.1(B) and I still am running 7.0, funny how a little .1(B)can make a difference. By the way this occured with direct fire operation. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> :cool <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

richmonder · Post by **richmonder** » Sat Feb 02, 2002 6:11 am

Ubertechie,

Could you explain how you create a campaign with a core force selected by the designer, such as you have done and is done in MC's?

sebagonzalez · Post by **sebagonzalez** » Sat Feb 02, 2002 8:14 am

i will answer for Uber, and if i am not wrong, u have to just select the forces involved in the scenarios, turn them all to auxiliary units and thats it. The same way u do when making a campaign with auxiliary units involved, but with the diference that all units are auxiliary.

By the way Uber, managed to get a Decisive victory in scenario 2, maybe cause i knew some of the positions since the first scenario, but i saw something i never saw before.....British trucks putting infantry in certain places and then leaving!!, and i mean leaving the infantry without being atacked.....u will have to tell me how is it done man, was really good.

On my way to the third scenario!

richmonder · Post by **richmonder** » Sat Feb 02, 2002 9:29 am

What I mean is this:

Is there a way to choose a core force (and deploy)for a campaign that I am designing, then in the second and all following battles the player can set up the forces as he desires? I am essentially looking to format the core force for the players.

Kanon Fodder · Post by **Kanon Fodder** » Sun Feb 03, 2002 1:25 am

This was my first attempt at a "Campaign".
Up until now I have strictly played scenarios.

I finished phase one to a draw (German 2098/Britain 2973) but feel, in reality, it was a crushing defeat. I had very few units left, with no hope of cleaning up the remaining British defenses.

My biggest problem was losing 5 of my Panzers to mines on the beach - 3 destroyed, 2 immobilized.
In future I suppose I will use my Engineer units as pathfinders ...

I also lost another due to a careless move through smoke that was a building hex. I wish the game would request confirmation of a move like that, similar to the Oportunity Fire.

The British Homeguard units lived up to the "guard" part of their name. Their Lewis guns were especially deadly.

I enjoyed playing the game and look forward to the next phase.

P.S. One question I have concerns the barge units.
After they dropped off their personnel I withdrew them off the board, thinking that would cut down on having to click through them all for orders, but that had no effect. The barges still came up in sequence for orders after they had left the map. Is that normal or a glitch ?

chief · Post by **chief** » Sun Feb 03, 2002 8:40 am

UberT de chief-P-030300Z
BT
Troops across the MR canal X heavy losses from friendly fire X Still effective fighting force X Luftwaffe support excellent X Naval support mediocre x 3 tanks still fully operational X optimistic victory at hand
BT
K (over)

[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: chief ]</p>

ubertechie · Post by **ubertechie** » Sun Feb 03, 2002 8:48 pm

Hi guys - thanks for all of the feedback - great to here that you are all soldiering on - no pun intended...

Richmonder - dont know the answer to your question - i just made the player have teh same core whihc is basically 2 re-inforced infantry companies - and they are all set to aux units. Sorry i cant be more helpfull.

The trucks thing is cool - its really simple though - its a matter of timing - the trucks seem to drop the infantry when they get suppresion - so i timed them to arrive just as the player does - this was deduced by letting the ai play itself several times - this gives te impression that the ai is unloading the troops in a planned manner. NOt hard to do just takes some fiddling with.

Many Thanks

Ubertechie

V-man · Post by **V-man** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 3:57 am

Originally posted by ubertechie:
hi - has anybody had chance to get anywhere with this - am itching for feedback.

Thanks

Ubertechie

I downloaded it ant played the first mission, got ashore losing only three platoons while on the water.

By turn 6 I was past the first cluster of houses in town, had found and mixed it up with some homeguards on the far side, in the scattered houses. No substantial infantry losses, lost five tanks, mostly to ambushes.

I gotta say, the Home guards were WELL armed. Lee-Enfields, Tommy guns, Sticky Bombs, AND satchel charges. If the British could arm their REGULAR INFANTRY this well, they'd win the war without the US or France.

Oh, I did that 6 turns with C&C ON. I hate to play with it off. Also, the deployment and unit selection sucks. If the troops are that few for the large sector they were given, then place them on the FAR right of the map, so they can exercise more control on the approach movement. Spreading out landing craft, with units NOT together, is suicide, C&C on OR off.

I was disappointed because I thought there was a version that I could select my own force mix. Didn't see it.

V-man

V-man · Post by **V-man** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 4:00 am

Originally posted by ubertechie:
Richmonder - C&C should be fine for every battle bar the first one - having it in will cause chaos - the landings where predicted to end up in something of a 'formation pigpile' by the Kreigsmarine - and the scenario attempts to reflect this - you are welcome to try but it may make a hard scenario virtually impossible
Let me know how you get on
Thanks
Ubertechie

PLacing the landing barges further to the right of the screen would fix this. The landing barges could angle towards their landing point before coming in range of the enemy.

V-man

chief · Post by **chief** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:55 am

UberT de Chief-OP-050600Z
BT
Overly optimistic x draw x casualties G332-B413 x lost 2AC and 3 AFV x moral good x pressing attack to regain city
BT K

ubertechie · Post by **ubertechie** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 5:34 pm

v-man
Firstly - if u want the campaign - where you pick your own troops mail me and i will gladly send it to you - no worries

Secondly "The troop selection sucks" - hey not my fault you may want to take that up with any suriving senior german officer who came up with there OOB's for infantry divisions around 1940.
This represents 2 infantry comapnies plus 2/3rd of the regiments support company (give or take) plus a full 25% of the available tauchpanzers ready at the time

I will admit that the home gaurd are well equipped BUT this reflects in a way the deep hatred that was around at the time and the fanatical nature and improvised weapons that where employed - and they are a nasty suprise for the player

I know it doesnt play with C&C on very well - the remainder of the campaign should - all you are doing by having it on is making a hard scenario even harder. The whole point is that the troops landed all messed up - it makes the player think more - rather than nice neat landings of platoons as they should be.

I am genuinly sorry if you dont like this - its my interpretation of something that didnt happen - but is recreated from available info.

If you dont like it you dont have to play it - if you do then i am afraid that intails putting up with my intepretation.

Thanks for the feedback anyway - the more i hear the more i learn - although i never promised to please anyone and did this campaign because i live in the area and this has allways fascinated me (my old house is right in the middle of the large clump of buildings on the sea-shore.)

Lastly - i fully respect your opinions - all i ask is the same in return - we are all here for the same thing and that is to have FUN

Many Thanks

Ubertechie

ubertechie · Post by **ubertechie** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 5:38 pm

Chief - no you contro the town up to the canal - you are in control of one of the finest fish and chip shops in the south east - in the middle of the clump of houses - why not pop in there before you commence your assault <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Carry on enjoying

Ubertechie

wulfir · Post by **wulfir** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:52 pm

I think the campaign is great! Right now I’m on the third battle - advancing steadily.

One tip though, in this (the 3rd) scenario the Mc – platoons and the SdKfz 222 down south are sort of trapped by the hedges lining both sides of the dirt road. I had to use the Stug’s to “open up” a route out for them. For some reason the hex with the trail leading north from this road is considered by the game to be containing hedges even though this does not show in the hex.

ubertechie · Post by **ubertechie** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 7:08 pm

Wulfir - thanks for this - missed in playtsting will fix and make available - also for all interested i have a minor change to the last battle to fix a erroneous VH spotted and reported by graesser

Glad that you are enjoying it - what scenarios have you played - Hythe, Hythe Again and now Lympne ? (beach assault - reassault town and long narrow map with woods all along inital deployment area)

Many Thanks

Ubertechie

brianleeprice · Post by **brianleeprice** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 7:45 pm

First thanks for making the effort, a lot of work goes in to making even one decent scenario. Especially a well researched one as yours seems to be.

I outscored the AI about 4:1 on the first scenario, losing only one tank to surprise fire from a AAA position in the hills. I don't recall the exact number but my overall casualties were fairly low. When I studied the forces available and the time allowed I wrote off the rearmost victory hexes right from the start. Absolutely no point in abandoning good tactics for a suicidal rush towards objectives of relatively minor importance in this commander's view.

I never did see any truckborne units, probably due to the strategy I employed from the start. Seeing that my forces were in such disarray and the enemy had multiple fortifications awaiting our arrival, I ordered the naval batteries to smoke much of the beach and ordered all landing craft to converge on the center. More time was lost waiting for the engineers to land first and find safe paths through the minefields.

Once ashore, the infantry and tanks covered the engineers while they demolished the fortifications with some assistance from the RBoots. From there on, my infantry advanced using the standard bounding overwatch tactics with support from the tanks and artillery while my engineers destroyed the remaining beach defenses with aid of the RBoots.

Once the main objectives and some minor ones were secured, I found that the mission plan did not allow sufficient time to reach the furthest objectives in a tactically sound manner without suffering unnecessary casualties. At that point I ordered a halt to the advance and had my forces dig in to await any counterattack.

Critique:
1) The lack of player purchased core force with subsequent upgrade, experience improvement, and the neccessity of replenishment of losses leads to the temptation to sacrafice units in a rush towards the rear objectives in an attempt for a decisive victory outcome.

2) Given the nature of the landing force, there seems to be insufficient time to reach those rear objectives using what I belive to be realistic tactics.

3) The lack of a counterattack makes the last half a bit too predictable in my opinion. Once all but the rearmost objectives are secured, the last few turns are spent just waiting for the end.

4) The Home Guard seems a bit too well equipped. They also seem to be a bit too well positioned unless they had substantial warning of the landing in which case I would expect some early arriving reinforcements to be present.

5) The lack of any victory hexes in the city/town make entering it rather pointless although I did in my battle just because it seemed to be something that should be done.

6) The wide open central area seems very underdefended considering the other defenses. I expected to find that area covered by at least a pair of antique ATGs and a machine gun nest or maybe even a pair of rifle pits.

7) The outcome for a minor victory seems more appropriate to a draw. In a minor victory the landing area and beach head has been secured enough to allow followup forces to land although perhaps not the best defensive position versus expected counterattacks.

Despite the critisms above, I found it enjoyable although I was a bit rankled at the outcome. If you have a version where the player can purchase a core force, I'd really like to try it. A couple of halftracks or trucks would make those rear victory hexes look *far* more attractive.

If you decide to do any modifications, for what it is worth I'd suggest toning down the HomeGuard a bit in respect to equipment, but adding various reinforcements trickling in over the course of the battle. Also adding a few minor fortifications like rifle pits and maybe a machine gun nest in some areas might be nice.

Hope this helps,
Brian

ubertechie · Post by **ubertechie** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 8:06 pm

Brian
Thanks for the critique .....
All very good points - i will try and answer some of them

1:I understand the point about the core force - unfortunatley the only way to do this would be with MC tools - whihc i dont have access to

I do have a version where you can pick your own troops but dont think it is as enjoyable as its really easy to unbalance the game.

2: It is possible to get all the VH's in a tactical manner - it just requires a certian trick - but i accept the poitn - my reasoning behind placing them there is that they are al the key entry points for a possible counterattack and as such are of value

3: The wide open central area - is a big piece of ground - now a golf course - that never had any fortification sor defense built on it - so that is historically accurate - it may need tweaking though to encrease enjoyment for the player

I will seriously consider re-visiting these scenarios - once i have done the remainder of the campaigns - and hopefully by then will have learnt a lot more and be able to produce a better product

The truckborne troops are another scenario - a pleasant suprise - there is no counter attack in the 1st scenario to simulate the absence of available troops and the effect of airborne landings and interdiction by naval and airborne units

Thanks for the feedback - it can only help me

Ubertechie

chief · Post by **chief** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:21 pm

UberT, tanks for invite, but due to my poor showing in first battle my CO prefers I stick to business at hand and not fratinize with enemy. By the way keep'em coming I like them, the scenarios and the realistic approach. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">