panther front hull armor rating

[jrome]

Hey everyone,
I used to play steel panthers on DOS long ago and have been playing Steel Panthers WAW recently- great game. I had some observations: the panther tank front hull armor is not correct in the encyclopedia- it is stated as 80mm. In the other versions of steel panthers it is 140 mm. (the amount the armor rating should be based on thickness, slope etc.)Any idea if this is just a typo and the front hull armor is correctly represented in actual gameplay?
Thanks
Jerome[&:]

[chief]

jrome: FWIW in ver7.1 Hull armor for Panther is 88, in DVRN ver its 85, turret armor is 140+....HTH

[vahauser]

jrome,
 
In Enhanced DVRN, the Panther D has front turret armor of 106mm @ 28deg and front hull armor of 85mm @ 55deg.  The Panther A and Panther G both have 115mm @ 28deg and 85mm @ 55deg.  That is pretty strong armor.  85mm @ 55deg is roughly equal to 140mm @ 0deg. 

[jrome]

Thanks for the replies!
I'm still confused- the encyclopedia already takes into account slope of the armor with the thickness, but only has the panther's armor at 85. Is this a misprint?
Is the armor of the hull in gameplay rated at 85 or 140?

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: jrome

Thanks for the replies!
I'm still confused- the encyclopedia already takes into account slope of the armor with the thickness, but only has the panther's armor at 85. Is this a misprint?
Is the armor of the hull in gameplay rated at 85 or 140?

Panther G Front hull is 85
Side hull is 55
Rear Hull is 40
not sure where you are getting the 140 from?

[vahauser]

Alby,
 
I think that he is using geometry.  85mm of armor angled at 55 degrees is roughly equivalent to 140mm of armor at 0 degrees. 
 
Since he stated he was using a different version of the game, then perhaps the 140mm he is referring to has been derived from the 85mm @ 55deg. 
 
Obviously, jrome ought to be using the latest version of the game and not some earlier version, but that is a choice that only he can make.

[jrome]

Thanks
I was thinking of the format of another steel panthers where the number listed was the effective armor rating (taking slope into account- I didn't realise that this is not done with waw

[Goblin]

The game takes into account the armor slope of the armor on location of the hit, plus it also factors in height (top hits or bottom hits), and angle of the tank to the shot (for instance, is your tank dead perpendicular to the incoming round - bad, since only the slope deflects the round, or is it sitting at s light angle away from the  incoming round - good, since now slope and left/right deflection fight the round). If you aim your tank slightly off of square with your target, then "T" to choose the target and fire, his return rounds have a smaller chance of penetrating.



Goblin

[vahauser]

jrome,
 
As Goblin points out, this is one of the advantages of a turreted AFV against a non-turreted AFV.  The non-turreted AFV must turn fully to face its target, but the turreted AFV can angle the hull separately and only the turret need face its target fully.  In practice, I almost always choose turreted instead of non-turreted AFVs if I have a choice.
 
Anyway, the Panther has good front protection.  Flank and rear not so much.  If you are tactically proficient, then point for point the Panther gives good value all around (speed, hitting power, protection, ammo load).

[Kevin E. Duguay]

Here I go again!

Panther D
Armor Front Side Rear Top bottom
Turret 100mm/10 45mm/25 45mm/25 16mm/83-90

Hull 80mm/55 40mm/40 40mm/30 16mm/90
(lower) 60mm/55 40mm/0 30-16mm/90

Gun Mantlet 100mm/round

*Point of note, The Panther gun mantlet unlike many other tankes covers almost the entire front of the turret. This would apply to all modles except the F with the "Schmal" turret.

[Kevin E. Duguay]

Panther A
Armor Front Side Rear Top Bottom
Turret 110mm/11 45mm/25 45mm/25 16mm/84-90

Hull 80mm/55 40mm/40 40mm/30
(lower) 60mm/55 40mm/0 30-16mm/90

Gun Mantlet 100mm/Round


Panther G
Armor Front Side Rear Top Bottom
Turret 110mm/11 45mm/25 45mm/25 16mm/84-90

Hull 80mm/55 50mm/30 40mm/30 40-16mm/90
(Lower) 60mm/55 40mm/0 30-16mm/90

Gun Mantlet 100mm Round

* This version eliminated the under gun mantlet shot trap.


Panther F*
Armor Front Side Rear Top Bottom
Turret 120mm/20 60mm/25 60mm/25 40mm/90

Hull 80mm/55 50mm/30 40mm/30 ? (Same as G ?)
(Lower) 60mm/55 40mm/0 30-16mm/90

Gun Mantlet 120mm/ Saukoptblende
This version was to introduce the "Schmal" or narrow turret on the Panther with provisions being made to mount the 88mm/L71 gun. However the protptype turrets mounted the original Panthers 75mm gun with out muzzel break.
None of this version were compleated before the war ended.

Sorry to all of you cat lovers but maybe ours are a little over rated. The Sherman guys out there should love this!!

Panthers still kick but!!!!!!!!!!![;)]

[Alby]

Alot of those numbers seemed to have dropped 5mm since last I looked up those numbers from that site I think when first doing Enhanced....those bastichs!!
[:D]

[dje]

Alby! You fargin icehole, this is fargin war you summs a bastages!

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: dje

Alby! You fargin icehole, this is fargin war you summs a bastages!

[&:]

[jrome]

Is there any way to use the editor to add units to the game- ex: panther II or F etc. Using the editor that came with the game, I could only see the option to change a unit's stats as opposed to adding new units.
 

[FlashfyreSP]

ORIGINAL: jrome

Is there any way to use the editor to add units to the game- ex: panther II or F etc. Using the editor that came with the game, I could only see the option to change a unit's stats as opposed to adding new units.

You have to use the OOB Editor, also included with the game. It is a separate program, not within the game itself.

BTW, the Panther II and F are both included in the Enhanced DV/DVRN Mods, in the Czech OOB (due to space considerations in the German OOB).

[Kevin E. Duguay]

Alby,
 
The information I listed is from
 
Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two, Revised Edition,  by
 
Peter Chamberlain and Hilary Doyle
 
With Technical Editor Thomas L. Jentz

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Kevin E. Duguay

Alby,

The information I listed is from

Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two, Revised Edition,  by

Peter Chamberlain and Hilary Doyle

With Technical Editor Thomas L. Jentz

Cool, same numbers as the ASL site...
anyway I adjusted them all for Enhanced 2008
[:)]

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: Alby

... I adjusted them all for Enhanced 2008
[:)]

Enhanced 2008?!? .....Never say never eh Alby?[:D]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

ORIGINAL: Alby

... I adjusted them all for Enhanced 2008
[:)]

Enhanced 2008?!? .....Never say never eh Alby?[:D]

Oops, I let the cat out of the bag...