Seems like every few months or so I get on this forum and ask about the final update to LVMC. Some people post and agree with me and some post that's it's fine the way it is. Then Brent posts some excuses about how he's still working on it, he doesn't have the time, the person who is responsible is no longer around, etc etc.
If memory serves it's now been over a YEAR.
Brent, how about just finishing the d@mn thing and being done with it?
Here we go again.......
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
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Klinkenhoffen
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Loose the attitude
rich12545,
Every few months over the last year I have read your posts.
I can't but help think that if you removed the agressive attitude and talked to people with a little respect that you may just get the answers that you are after.
Most if not all of your posts have been negative. You have been down right rude to those involved and your perceived lack of support for a product is no escuse.
Klinkenhoffen
Every few months over the last year I have read your posts.
I can't but help think that if you removed the agressive attitude and talked to people with a little respect that you may just get the answers that you are after.
Most if not all of your posts have been negative. You have been down right rude to those involved and your perceived lack of support for a product is no escuse.
Klinkenhoffen
It's all gone horribly wrong !
Hey Kilnk! I have found that the best way to respond to rude post such as this one is just not to reply at all...after all, most of us are grown ups here...well then there is a 1200 year old Goblin and a 30+ year old Orzel Bird thingy...and of course my 58 year old Sherman...other than those I mean...Klinkenhoffen wrote:rich12545,
Every few months over the last year I have read your posts.
I can't but help think that if you removed the agressive attitude and talked to people with a little respect that you may just get the answers that you are after.
Most if not all of your posts have been negative. You have been down right rude to those involved and your perceived lack of support for a product is no escuse.
Klinkenhoffen
Im making war, not trouble~
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Klinkenhoffen
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Orzel Bialy
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LVMC Patch Revisited....
Rich,
First of all let me say that Klink has a very valid suggestion within his reply...chiefly that rude and snide pot-shots will seldom garner the author anything positive in return. Although they may grab some forum members attention you should be well aware of the fact that they will rarely be replied to with cheers of support.
Now, before the "unhappy customer has rights to complain" card is played I will say that I personally feel this goes beyond not being granted the hoped for LV patch. To me, for some reason, having Brent Richards stand in front of you and admit to "lying" about the patch and then "apologize" for these perceived "broken promises" seems more important to you than any patch itself.
It is indeed sad that Brent could not follow through with his plans to create a patch as intended, chiefly due to Matrix having spread it's resources to other projects. I have had the pleasure of speaking with Brent personally and I know that he has a great passion for the projects he is involved in. So nothing, in my mind, could be farther from the truth if you are eluding that Brent knowingly made hollow promises as some sort of stall tactic.
What, in this case, is even more sad is that you obviously feel the right to exact "a pound of flesh" over the matter by making the issue a personal one. Surely you must be aware of how childish that is Rich and that it really accomplishes nothing in the end?
Sometimes things don't go as planned...that is the way of it at times. If you feel cheated then that is indeed unfortunate...because although it may not be perfect the game is still highly enjoyable. Anyway, in the end run if you want to state your opinions and concerns in a constructive manner? Fine!
Want to make a statement by not buying another product? OK, miss out.
Want to make a a petty issue into a personal matter? Be prepared to be told: "Take it Elsewhere".
First of all let me say that Klink has a very valid suggestion within his reply...chiefly that rude and snide pot-shots will seldom garner the author anything positive in return. Although they may grab some forum members attention you should be well aware of the fact that they will rarely be replied to with cheers of support.
Now, before the "unhappy customer has rights to complain" card is played I will say that I personally feel this goes beyond not being granted the hoped for LV patch. To me, for some reason, having Brent Richards stand in front of you and admit to "lying" about the patch and then "apologize" for these perceived "broken promises" seems more important to you than any patch itself.
It is indeed sad that Brent could not follow through with his plans to create a patch as intended, chiefly due to Matrix having spread it's resources to other projects. I have had the pleasure of speaking with Brent personally and I know that he has a great passion for the projects he is involved in. So nothing, in my mind, could be farther from the truth if you are eluding that Brent knowingly made hollow promises as some sort of stall tactic.
What, in this case, is even more sad is that you obviously feel the right to exact "a pound of flesh" over the matter by making the issue a personal one. Surely you must be aware of how childish that is Rich and that it really accomplishes nothing in the end?
Sometimes things don't go as planned...that is the way of it at times. If you feel cheated then that is indeed unfortunate...because although it may not be perfect the game is still highly enjoyable. Anyway, in the end run if you want to state your opinions and concerns in a constructive manner? Fine!
Want to make a statement by not buying another product? OK, miss out.
Want to make a a petty issue into a personal matter? Be prepared to be told: "Take it Elsewhere".
I agree with all that was said here, but again agree partially with rich. "Other things coming up" or "resources spread thin" is generally not an accepted excuse for not finishing a product that people paid for. The promise of a future patch should have been honored first.
That said, since it was not, and they are very busy now, then it is time to let it drop, or address it in private emails, because reading about it every few months is getting old. I believe that Orzel is right, it was not intentional subterfuge, and what is done is done (or not done, if you follow me...). There are many projects out now that call for their time, lets let them get to them.
Goblin
That said, since it was not, and they are very busy now, then it is time to let it drop, or address it in private emails, because reading about it every few months is getting old. I believe that Orzel is right, it was not intentional subterfuge, and what is done is done (or not done, if you follow me...). There are many projects out now that call for their time, lets let them get to them.
Goblin
Gentlemen, gentlemen!
At ease! Rich is making a request. It perhaps is a little blunter than we normally see on this forum, but it is a legitimate request.
Grenadier and I are good friends. I'll stand up for the man anywhere anytime. We've broken bread together.
The lack of this "patch" or whatever it is that is needed is something that should be addressed. I think a personal note to Brent might accomplish more. Perhaps you have done that, Rich. I hope so.
The man is busy. In addition to a family, a job and a ton of responsibilities for Matrix (been there, done that...its rough!), his time runs out on him, as it does all of us. You can't squeeze 26 into 24 no matter how hard you try.
Whatever the case, let us be calm and keep the same spirit of brotherhood that has kept this forum alive and well for four years now.
I've visited forums that make me nauseous with the innuendoes, blatant attacks and name calling. Let's not drop to that level.
We are a band of brothers. We can disagree, but there is a kindred spirit here. Let's try to keep it.
Wild Bill
At ease! Rich is making a request. It perhaps is a little blunter than we normally see on this forum, but it is a legitimate request.
Grenadier and I are good friends. I'll stand up for the man anywhere anytime. We've broken bread together.
The lack of this "patch" or whatever it is that is needed is something that should be addressed. I think a personal note to Brent might accomplish more. Perhaps you have done that, Rich. I hope so.
The man is busy. In addition to a family, a job and a ton of responsibilities for Matrix (been there, done that...its rough!), his time runs out on him, as it does all of us. You can't squeeze 26 into 24 no matter how hard you try.
Whatever the case, let us be calm and keep the same spirit of brotherhood that has kept this forum alive and well for four years now.
I've visited forums that make me nauseous with the innuendoes, blatant attacks and name calling. Let's not drop to that level.
We are a band of brothers. We can disagree, but there is a kindred spirit here. Let's try to keep it.
Wild Bill
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant
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Orzel Bialy
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It is not the issue I disagree with...
I believe that consumers have a right to voice up their displeasure...so it is not the subject matter I disagree with...just for the record Rich. It is how the posts were structured and went from "Matrix should do something..." to "how about it Brent?"...and in a rather abusive tone.
So again it was the personalizing of the posts that drew my ire.
I agree Goblin, what is done is done...hopefully there won't be a repeat of an unfortunate issue like this again. But let's move on from it already.
So again it was the personalizing of the posts that drew my ire.
I agree Goblin, what is done is done...hopefully there won't be a repeat of an unfortunate issue like this again. But let's move on from it already.
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Orzel Bialy
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Kunel Sir...
thank you for stepping in...your influence on the field is always direct and immediate.
I apologize Rich if my tone was no better than that which I was objecting to...but I would rather us all treat each other with respect and tact. When I see a post that looks like something from the AoW forum...I try to nip it quick...for as the Kunel said, we try to be above that type of banter.
I don't know what the likelyhood of any fix will be with CL eating up a lot of Brent's time...but I will not try to speak for him. He can post a reply here or correspond with Rich personally...that will hopefully settle the matter for good.
I apologize Rich if my tone was no better than that which I was objecting to...but I would rather us all treat each other with respect and tact. When I see a post that looks like something from the AoW forum...I try to nip it quick...for as the Kunel said, we try to be above that type of banter.
I don't know what the likelyhood of any fix will be with CL eating up a lot of Brent's time...but I will not try to speak for him. He can post a reply here or correspond with Rich personally...that will hopefully settle the matter for good.
[QUOTE=Klinkenhoffen]rich12545,
Every few months over the last year I have read your posts.
I can't but help think that if you removed the agressive attitude and talked to people with a little respect that you may just get the answers that you are after.
Most if not all of your posts have been negative. You have been down right rude to those involved and your perceived lack of support for a product is no escuse.
Klinkenhoffen[/QUOTE
The first few times I inquired about the update (Brent insists it isn't a patch) I did so very nicely. But after more than a year my patience runs thin.
Brent may be busy but there are priorities. He recently published a six part scenario pack. Very nice but finishing LVMC should have come first. If he doesn't plan to finish it he should say so, but he has said exactly the opposite.
I didn't realize I could simply contact him directly and will do so in the next few days if I can find his email address. I assumed that this forum was for correspondence.
Since you stated that most if not all of my posts (on this forum) have been negative I would be grateful if you would back up that statement or retract it.
And since most of the rest of the replies feel my post was rude all I can say is I just get tired of waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.....
This has no effect on how I feel about SPWAW. I still can't believe the effort Matrix has put (and continues to put) into a free game. Most companies don't put half that effort into one you pay for. I've mentioned this previously several times on this forum. I guess Klinkenhoffen missed those posts.
Every few months over the last year I have read your posts.
I can't but help think that if you removed the agressive attitude and talked to people with a little respect that you may just get the answers that you are after.
Most if not all of your posts have been negative. You have been down right rude to those involved and your perceived lack of support for a product is no escuse.
Klinkenhoffen[/QUOTE
The first few times I inquired about the update (Brent insists it isn't a patch) I did so very nicely. But after more than a year my patience runs thin.
Brent may be busy but there are priorities. He recently published a six part scenario pack. Very nice but finishing LVMC should have come first. If he doesn't plan to finish it he should say so, but he has said exactly the opposite.
I didn't realize I could simply contact him directly and will do so in the next few days if I can find his email address. I assumed that this forum was for correspondence.
Since you stated that most if not all of my posts (on this forum) have been negative I would be grateful if you would back up that statement or retract it.
And since most of the rest of the replies feel my post was rude all I can say is I just get tired of waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.....
This has no effect on how I feel about SPWAW. I still can't believe the effort Matrix has put (and continues to put) into a free game. Most companies don't put half that effort into one you pay for. I've mentioned this previously several times on this forum. I guess Klinkenhoffen missed those posts.
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Klinkenhoffen
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rich12545,
I will not get into a public dispute with you. I have PM'd you about the evidence you wished.
I will retract the statement that most of your posts are negative. Out of 700 plus posts only the ones in regard to Lost Victories patch / update, less than 10 odd, I based my statement on. I did even find the posts were you praise Matrix. So I apologise for that statement.
However, I stand by statement that your attitude has become aggresive and rude. There is no escuse and I think that you owe Brent an apologie.
Klinkenhoffen
I will not get into a public dispute with you. I have PM'd you about the evidence you wished.
I will retract the statement that most of your posts are negative. Out of 700 plus posts only the ones in regard to Lost Victories patch / update, less than 10 odd, I based my statement on. I did even find the posts were you praise Matrix. So I apologise for that statement.
However, I stand by statement that your attitude has become aggresive and rude. There is no escuse and I think that you owe Brent an apologie.
Klinkenhoffen
It's all gone horribly wrong !
I just replied to the private message that I received from you. Hopefully that will resolve our personal differences.
Yes, I admit to everybody my tone was rude. But it was from frustration in trying to find out about this. Why won't Brent finish the mc? Why won't he periodically post his progress? It really looks like it is a dead issue and he is saying "screw the mc buying public I'm not going to finish it." If that's not the case then why is he spending his time on scenarios and not on LV? Just getting him to post on the subject almost takes an act of God.
And no, I don't believe I owe him an apology. I believe he owes everyone who purchased LVMC an apology.
Yes, I admit to everybody my tone was rude. But it was from frustration in trying to find out about this. Why won't Brent finish the mc? Why won't he periodically post his progress? It really looks like it is a dead issue and he is saying "screw the mc buying public I'm not going to finish it." If that's not the case then why is he spending his time on scenarios and not on LV? Just getting him to post on the subject almost takes an act of God.
And no, I don't believe I owe him an apology. I believe he owes everyone who purchased LVMC an apology.
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Don Doom
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Hmm as a person who helped build LVMC, I would for one wait until Herr GDPT has time to do the "so called" patch even if it took several years! The campaign is very large and there would be a lot of work involed, depending on what, how much needed to be worked on. So in other words just have patience ok.
PS: I don't believe an apology is warranted.
PS: I don't believe an apology is warranted.
Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining
I think an apology for the uncivil behavior is warranted, but its between those two to work that out. I would just as quickly say that an apology was warranted if Brent had been rude to rich. Its understandable (frustration and all), but still uncalled for.Don Doom wrote:Hmm as a person who helped build LVMC, I would for one wait until Herr GDPT has time to do the "so called" patch even if it took several years! The campaign is very large and there would be a lot of work involed, depending on what, how much needed to be worked on. So in other words just have patience ok.
PS: I don't believe an apology is warranted.
Goblin- "Dear Goblin"
Gentlemen!
I'm no moderator on this forum, just a bystander, listening to the conversation. I personally will call Brent's attention to this post. I'm sure he will respond.
And as for the rest of it, I say, enough said, point made, point taken. Time to move ahead.
Wild Bill
I'm no moderator on this forum, just a bystander, listening to the conversation. I personally will call Brent's attention to this post. I'm sure he will respond.
And as for the rest of it, I say, enough said, point made, point taken. Time to move ahead.
Wild Bill
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant
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Orzel Bialy
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Amen...
I second that motion...Goblin and Bill are correct...with Brent notified let them settle the matter and let us focus on other topics and issues.
I understand there's not a lot to do, mainly add some historical stuff that was left out. That's why Brent calls it an update not a patch. Shouldn't take a real long time. If he would have given it a half hour a week since the beginning of the year it would likely be done by now. Patience? No problem. All Brent has to do is post some sort of update every month or two and I'd be satisfied. When all there is is silence it makes me think he's abandoned it, especially when he's chosen to work on scenarios instead!Don Doom wrote:Hmm as a person who helped build LVMC, I would for one wait until Herr GDPT has time to do the "so called" patch even if it took several years! The campaign is very large and there would be a lot of work involed, depending on what, how much needed to be worked on. So in other words just have patience ok.
PS: I don't believe an apology is warranted.
I third letting it go. Yesterday I took Wild Bill's advice and wrote to Brent personally. So far I haven't heard back. If and when I do or if there is anything new on the update I'll post it.
Sorry for anybody who doesn't like my tone. Besides the frustration involved I find it difficult to transfer my sunny disposition to print. Everything I write comes out blunt and to the point. Just ask anyone on the Art of Wargaming forum heh heh.
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Klinkenhoffen
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