Error in the OOB for sniper rifles

[Deputy]

Interesting, because the same error exists in WinSPWW2. US sniper rifles are listed as being available in 1930. But the US HAD NO sniper rifles until, at the earliest, February of 1943. The sniper rifles used during WW1 had all been decommissioned or sold off. There were NONE in the US inventory until the government gave Remington Arms a work order in January 1943 to take 1903A3 rifles off the assembly line and convert them to sniper versions. I haven't been able to find the exact date when the rifles actually reached the units, though. For sure they were available for D-Day. Before that, I just don't know. These rifles were nothing "special" as far as having super-accurate barrels or super-nice scopes like on the 98K sniper. If they didn't perform as well as they should, they were converted back to standard 03A3 rifles. Later, the M1C Garand replaced the 1903A4 sniper rifle. But this was MUCH later (M1C was adopted as standard in July, 1944) and not a lot of them made it to the front lines. The M1D came so late it wasn't used until the Korean War.

Dep

[FlashfyreSP]

While technically true, the game's "sniper rifle" represents a wide variety of weapons used by snipers and marksmen; not all of them were dedicated sniper rifles. Any good marksman, with a scope on a Springfield '03, could "snipe" enemy soldiers; maybe not in the same manner as today's snipers, but effective nonetheless.

[Deputy]

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

While technically true, the game's "sniper rifle" represents a wide variety of weapons used by snipers and marksmen; not all of them were dedicated sniper rifles. Any good marksman, with a scope on a Springfield '03, could "snipe" enemy soldiers; maybe not in the same manner as today's snipers, but effective nonetheless.

Ahhhh...but THAT is the problem. For some strange reason lots of folks seem to think scopes were just laying around to be slapped on and used at any time during the war. They weren't. America had no scoped rifles in inventory until the production of the 1903A4 in early 1943. Sniper and Marksman are two completely different types. A Marksman or Sharpshooter would be someone like Sgt. Alvin York of WW1 fame. He didn't need a scope to be a good shot. A Sniper is someone specifically chosen, in Germany's case chosen and TRAINED, BECAUSE he is a good shot with iron sights. At our rifle range we have guys with 98K Mausers that are ringing teeny tiny sheep targets at 500 yards. With my 58-year-old eyes I can barely SEE those targets[:D]. Even some young guys can't hit that target. But some folks, no matter what their age, seem to just have a natural ability with a rifle at long range.

[KG Erwin]

In SPWaW, snipers/sharpshooters are normalized. No distinction is made for one nation's being better than another. In game terms, they are nuisances with a short life on the battlefield.

An exception is the 6-man USMC scout/sniper squad, which is available in 1943. One of its secondary weapons is the M1903 sniper rifle. These were the antecedents of the modern day scout/sniper teams. In SPWaW terms, they are used as recon, with some killing ability.

Have you read about the exploits of the USMC Scout/Sniper platoon led by William Dean Hawkins at Tarawa? In this particular case, they were one of the first units ashore at Betio, and were augmented by an engineer demolitions team. Their mission was a mix of stealth/assault, to destroy Japanese positions on the pier. Hawkins was KIA, and earned the Medal of Honor.

Here is the text of his citation:

"Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps. Born: 19 .April 1914, Fort Scott, Kans. Appointed from: El Paso, Tex. Citation: For valorous and gallant conduct above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of a Scout Sniper Platoon attached to the Assault Regiment in action against Japanese-held Tarawa in the Gilbert Island, 20 and 21 November 1943. The first to disembark from the jeep lighter, 1st Lt. Hawkins unhesitatingly moved forward under heavy enemy fire at the end of the Betio Pier, neutralizing emplacements in coverage of troops assaulting the main beach positions. Fearlessly leading his men on to join the forces fighting desperately to gain a beachhead, he repeatedly risked his life throughout the day and night to direct and lead attacks on pillboxes and installations with grenades and demolitions. At dawn on the following day, 1st Lt. Hawkins resumed the dangerous mission of clearing the limited beachhead of Japanese resistance, personally initiating an assault on a hostile position fortified by enemy machineguns, and, crawling forward in the face of withering fire, boldly fired pointblank into the loopholes and completed the destruction with grenades. Refusing to withdraw after being seriously wounded in the chest during this skirmish, 1st Lt. Hawkins steadfastly carried the fight to the enemy, destroying 3 more pillboxes before he was caught in a burst of Japanese shellfire and mortally wounded. His relentless fighting spirit in the face of formidable opposition and his exceptionally daring tactics served as an inspiration to his comrades during the most crucial phase of the battle and reflect the highest credit upon the U.S. Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country."

[Alby]

No one uses USA or any one else in 1930 anyway..
[;)]

[StephanFH]

<<Here is the text of his citation: >>
It never ceases to astound me, how very courageous those young men were. Not foolhardy, I think Hawkins new precisely the risks he was taking and determined they were necessary. Le plus brave des braves.

[Deputy]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

In SPWaW, snipers/sharpshooters are normalized. No distinction is made for one nation's being better than another. In game terms, they are nuisances with a short life on the battlefield.

An exception is the 6-man USMC scout/sniper squad, which is available in 1943. One of its secondary weapons is the M1903 sniper rifle. These were the antecedents of the modern day scout/sniper teams. In SPWaW terms, they are used as recon, with some killing ability.

And that is the same problem that exists in WinSPWW2 as well as SP:WAW. First of all, the 1903A4 sniper rifle was far from being some kind of superior sniper rifle. Quite honestly, it was crap, compared to what the US had in WW1 (5X power scope in WW1/2.2 power scope in WW2). After WW1 sniper rifle development STOPPED. Any existing sniper rifles were either sold off, decommissioned, or converted back to standard rifles. Making all snipers in WW2 "equal" is just plain WRONG. I would rank them as Germany #1 (4 power scope and sniper training), Russia #2 (3.5 power scope and selection based on superior performance of a shooter), and the rest you can pretty much "equalize". The 1903A4 and later M1C sniper rifles were last minute modifications after frontline troops complained of a need for them. The 1903A4 was built by Remington on regular production line rifles. No special effort was made to select the most accurate rifles (as was done in the Soviet Union).
A cheap 2X commercail scope was mounted and that was pretty much it. Any spectacular exploits by US snipers in WW2 can be marked up to the inherent abilites of the individual soldier and not to the superiority of his weapon. I'm not saying what they accomplished wasn't impressive, I'm saying that it wasn't accomplished based on his sniper rifle. From what I have been able to find out so far, the US Army didn't start using the 1903A4 until the Normany invasion. I haven't found any info about it being used in any other location before then. I just want to make sure the weapons aren't available BEFORE they were issued.

Dep