Supply? does anyone here understand it?

[bo]

I really need help here understanding supply and beginging to get an uneasy feeling here nobody else understands it either. I have armored units in Australia, stationed in Sydney, they have a supply value of 22, if I move them several hexes away, 2 to 4 hexes my supply goes to 2, when I try to supply the units with USA supply the game wont let me, telling me that Sydney is well supplied, yeah right for Australian troops but not American units. The way supply is set up in this game IMHO is goofy[&:] THe manual seems to say that my units will be able to draw supplies from an allied city like Sydney, not happening, again please explain to me how I can supply these troops of mine as they move farther away from Sydney to help the Aussies fight the Japanese.

Thank you anyone!

Bo

[schwaryfalke]

Hi,
your problem is a bug/design failure in the supply system.

The way it should work, is that you need to have a convoy from a port that has a land connection to a MSS for your country to a port. The receiving port,if the convoy suceeds,then has Full supply and passes the full supply status to other cities that have a land connection.

This fails though if the receiving port has 25+ intrinsic supply,due to the dumb coding that in this case no convoy is executed.The further consequence is that the port does not have Full supply status and therefore does not pass this on.Hence your supply level is only the intrinsic supply of the nearest city.

Unless this gets patched,the only solution is to only create a convoy to the smallest cities/ports (with low intrinsic supply)
for routing your supplies. Of course this only works where such a port is available and controlled by you.

Note :- The supply level is calculated based on the SHORTEST route to a supply source,and not on the best possible supply
ie A unit next to a city with 4 supply,would have 3 supply.This ignores that if supply came from a city 2 hexes away with 25 supply,the unit would have 23

Kind regards

[bo]

ORIGINAL: schwaryfalke

Hi,
your problem is a bug/design failure in the supply system.

The way it should work, is that you need to have a convoy from a port that has a land connection to a MSS for your country to a port. The receiving port,if the convoy suceeds,then has Full supply and passes the full supply status to other cities that have a land connection.

This fails though if the receiving port has 25+ intrinsic supply,due to the dumb coding that in this case no convoy is executed.The further consequence is that the port does not have Full supply status and therefore does not pass this on.Hence your supply level is only the intrinsic supply of the nearest city.

Unless this gets patched,the only solution is to only create a convoy to the smallest cities/ports (with low intrinsic supply)
for routing your supplies. Of course this only works where such a port is available and controlled by you.

Note :- The supply level is calculated based on the SHORTEST route to a supply source,and not on the best possible supply
ie A unit next to a city with 4 supply,would have 3 supply.This ignores that if supply came from a city 2 hexes away with 25 supply,the unit would have 23

Kind regards

Thank you Schwary I take it back somebody knows something okay doomtrader please fix it.

Bo

[Razz1]

schwaryfalke,
This will not solve his problem since his units are isolated from a city.
Your theory does not contain amphibous landings. That's why there is a alternative supply source from ships at sea to supply any land unit 3 hexes inland.

The supply system is designed around realistic logstical problems during that time period.
If you notice supply is reduced by terrain factor and action points.

Even today units are not fully supplied in the jungle, swamps and mountain areas.

A lower supply reduces effectivity of the units.

If you made all cities MSS then there would be no reduction in effectivity, hence no supply constraint.

I don't see anything that needs to be fixed.

His planes out of supply is a unique situation and without a saved game it can not be verified or resolved.
It could be a corrupted file when he installed patched .
It could be a code concerning air units.
or it could be something else.

There are several places on the map where supply constrains the advance of units.

EDIT: It could be the simple fact he does not have enough of the correct type of ships in the sea zone as per the manual.
The enemy reduces the effects of alternative supply, so there may be no bug just a comprehension problem with supply.

[doomtrader]

We are investigating the issue and whatever bugs we will found, they will be addressed in next patch.

[schwaryfalke]

ORIGINAL: Razz

schwaryfalke,
This will not solve his problem since his units are isolated from a city.

Please reread the original Post,the units are not isolated. The issue is US units in Australia,that get LESS supply than an Australian unit in the same Hex.This is caused exactly by what i described. I did not mention the beachhead supply because that works logically( except where the supply routines decide to take supply from a city resulting in less supply than if beachhead supply was used)

THere is no need to change cities to MSS. 2 things need to be done.

1) Simple fix - Remove the code that cancels convoys that go to Ports with high intrinsic supply (This code is why the max supply level for a unit in Hawai is 25, while a unit on some little atoll has 30).
This would remove the main issue with the supply system.

2) Complex fix - Change the supply calculation so that supply is drawn from the city or via beachhead that gives the unit the highest possible supply level for the current location.


The reduction in supply based on range and type of intervening terrain is ok and not an issue since it reflects the real logistical constraints.

Edit. you can verify this by placing a US unit next to sydney. If your convoy from US goes to sydney (and then gets automatically canceled) it will have 24 supply, but if the convoy goes to Port Darwin(and is not intercepted) it will have 29 supply.

[Razz1]

Sydney is 30(25)

I don't see a problem with supply.

The owner and controller get 30 supply and any other country gets 25.

This is due to logistical problems. Even with an ally there are constraints; mainly coordination, communication, capacity, plus the owners always gets priorty.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Razz

Sydney is 30(25)

I don't see a problem with supply.

The owner and controller get 30 supply and any other country gets 25.

This is due to logistical problems. Even with an ally there are constraints; mainly coordination, communication, capacity, plus the owners always gets priorty.

Look Razz I have to respect you because you carry that Matrix Legion of honor badge[&o]
But you are not listening or reading or whatever, the supply is screwed up plain and simple and you know from game experience that most errors are caught by players than programmers because we put more time into the game, most of the problem is in Australia. I captured Port Darwin where all Japanese supplies were coming in but 5 or 6 hexex away was a place called Daly waters or something like that move after move this town of Daly Waters was giving supplies of 20 to 22 every turn to stranded Jap units, where were these supplies coming from, not Port Darwin and not from any supply ships that were at least 6 hex's from a naval supply. I think the gentlemans post above was accurate and his solving of the problem was right on how to fix some of the supply problems, now in conclusion either the programmers are being a little hardheaded or you are just trying to help the computer as Doomtrader told me a couple posts ago, I think he called it balance[:)]

Bo

[Razz1]

I suggest you re-read the manula two more times..

Daly Waters creates supplies, just like all cities.

A Boy who crys wolf too many times is ignored.

[schwaryfalke]

ORIGINAL: Razz

I suggest you re-read the manula two more times..

Daly Waters creates supplies, just like all cities.

A Boy who crys wolf too many times is ignored.

I had actually considered not posting anymore,since i can not force people to actually read what is written when they have no wish to comprehend that there is an issue.

I would suggest that you take your own advice and actually read the manual at least once,specifically this section.


17.1 Calculating Supply
Supply is calculated for each country separately, using the following rules:
First, Supply is calculated in each city that is controlled by a country or its allies. This
is done in the following way.
• Cities that are Main Supply Sources (MSS) owned by a country get
maximum Supply. If the owner is an alliance, then all of an alliance
leader’s MSS act as if they were the MSS of this country.
• Cities that have a land connection over friendly-controlled hexes with any
MSS get full Supply.
• Supply Convoys. A Convoy Arrival Port gets the amount of Supply carried
by the Convoy.
• Cities that have a land connection over friendly-controlled hexes with a
Port in which a Convoy arrives get the Supply Value carried by the
Convoy (unless their own Supply Value is higher – this applies when the
Convoy took losses and managed to carry only a minimal amount of
Supply).
• Cities that don’t have a connection with a valid MSS either by land or by
Convoy will generate a certain amount of Supply on their own. This value
is shown in parentheses in the Hex Information panel (section 5.4) when a
City is selected from the Main Screen.
• Supply goes from Cities directly to units, traveling at the speed of a
motorized unit. Units will get Supply from the nearest city (nearest in terms
of APs of a Motorized unit, not in terms of the physical number of hexes
necessarily). The Supply Value that unit receives is the Supply in the city
minus the distance in terms of APs.
For example, the nearest City for German Infantry Division is 9 Action Points’ worth
of Motorized unit movement away. The City has maximum Supply of 30. Therefore,
this division’s Supply will be 30-9=21.


Note there is no mention of convoys being automatically deleted.

Also which of these logistical scenarios would result in more supplies ?

a) Ship goods from US to a major port, then a few KM to the Unit
b) Ship goods from US to a minor port,then transport them 100s of KM across often dirt tracks to a major city.


As far as the game is concerned b) is the better solution

[Razz1]

I have never seen convoys being deleted automatically.

I think your pipe dreaming from that stuff your smoking.

[vonRocko]

That's nice, people post questions and concerns about the game, and they're called liars and drug addicts! Wasteland, does this guy speak for you? These are legitimate concerns. I can understand their question, why can't you guys.

[War History]

Honest to God truth. I just looked at this forum for the first time, and this was the first thread I looked at because I WAS considering buying this game and was just starting in the "research" phase trying to figure out if it was worthwhile. After reading this thread, I think not. Typical Matrix attitude.

[cpdeyoung]

Neither Matrix nor Wastelands is involved in the unpleasant turn the thread has taken. The post from Doomtrader is very typical indeed, and he promised to do research and issue a patch if problems are found. No one else in this thread is a representative of Matrix or Wastelands, to the best of my knowledge.

That, of course, includes me.

Chuck

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Razz

I have never seen convoys being deleted automatically.

I think your pipe dreaming from that stuff your smoking.

Do not understand your comments Razz at all about supply instead of working with some of the posts you have done nothing more than to insult people and try to make them look foolish [cry wolf] I think its about time doomtrader steps in and takes a stance whether negative or positive about supply and end this before it gets real nasty, I tried to give an easy solution but you pooh poohed it, nice Razz, every post that I have read is a post that seems dedicated to make a good game better at least in the eyes of us tyros. I have a game that crashes once a night for no reason I have a game where I have to go in an make the Japanese AI human to take away 10 to fifteen bombers going after one target and then overloading and crashes, I have a game where the 128th move started giving me and other allied nations tons of new ships and then freezing the game up and I had to start again because even the game save did not work. I have a game where a mysterious cruiser of Japan bombards Portland on every move but no ship is there, ever. I think the game in most part is well done but the game at least for me is not stable, not being mean just would like to see some improvements to make this a truly great game. From what I read of earlier posts of yours shows me you are very knowledable about games and programming and certainly know a lot more about games than I do and I appreciate your effort on Rising Sun and I mean that, but please look into our complaints and help us instead of insulting us. Please!

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

Neither Matrix nor Wastelands is involved in the unpleasant turn the thread has taken. The post from Doomtrader is very typical indeed, and he promised to do research and issue a patch if problems are found. No one else in this thread is a representative of Matrix or Wastelands, to the best of my knowledge.

That, of course, includes me.

Chuck

I agree with you 110% cpdeyoung about Matrix and Wastelands and I for one will bring no more negativity to this post [maybe] but I would like to get my $53US dollars worth and not have headaches.

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: War History

Honest to God truth. I just looked at this forum for the first time, and this was the first thread I looked at because I WAS considering buying this game and was just starting in the "research" phase trying to figure out if it was worthwhile. After reading this thread, I think not. Typical Matrix attitude.

Hi War history actually the game is decent, nice map, pretty good interface agressive AI most of the time, sorry you had to read these comments it should not have gone this far.

Bo

[War History]

I liked SSIs Pacific War. UV looked to be a lot like its predecessor (War in the South Pacific), but alas not even close. I looked into WitP and the same type of attitude as above from Matrix people and "non-Matrix people" that were involved in the game process somehow. Same with AE. By my way of thinking if these people are not connected to Matrix, yet Maatrix doesnt correct them when they cross the line, it is like Matrix saying it themselves. It is their forum. If they dont police it, then they support it. Simple. I have many games from long ago that I still play simply because they are fun to play (Caesar 3 anyone? or Rail Baron? or SPWW2?). Not about to support a company with this type of attitude from either its employees or its "spokesmen". Simple. Its my money, and I will keep it from them until they clean up their house. Simple. If they presume this is unreasonable on my part, then they dont want my business. Again, pretty simple.

[Crimguy]

Dude, what the hell are you talking about?

[War History]

Talking about the only recourse a person has with a company that treats its customers and potential customers like crap. Not buying their products and further telling them WHY you wont buy their products. And if they choose not to change their attitude and policies based on it, then so be it.

Why? Do you have a stake in the company?

(Edit: Bo, I dont play against the AI - I feel its like taking candy from a baby. Either they have to make it cheat to give you a run for your money or after a couple of playings you know how to beat it and it falls to boring. Caesar 3 I like I guess because its just running a city and keeping it moving. Rail Baron I like more or less for the same reason. Can take the "computer players" out of that one and it would still be fun to me. SPWWII is always a random map with random forces, although I still play that about 50% of the time vs a human rather than the AI.)