Early USA

[doomtrader]

I was wondering what is yours strategy for the first half of year when playing as USA (other Allies as AI).

What I usually do is:
- Set up convoys to Philippines, that will allow Phili AI to immediately reinforce its forces and order some new divisions that would be available within few weeks (usually mi January).
- Buy as many inf divs as possible and as soon as they will be available deploy them and upgrade to corps. This method is more expensive than ordering corps, but takes less time.
- Then if Manila is still defending, I'm loading as many forces as possible on transports and landing crafts (must buy them first) and with the cover of my whole fleet I'm sending those to Philippines.
- If there are some forces left, I'm trying to send them to one or two key cities in DEI to help Dutch Army.
- In March/April if I have any islands left (does not happen to often if I focus on Philippines) , I'm trying to replace div garrisons with corps. This makes Jap casualties during amph invasions much higher.

[jomni]

Interesting.  You mean those supply convoys to the Philippines don't get disrupted?

In my current game, I left the Philippnies alone so they surrendered.  I immediately upgraded Wake Garrison to corps (the gamey but necessary move to prevent the Japanese onslaught) in the first turn and sent troops all over Central and Southern Pacific Islands. It's now mid 1942 and I already have some foothold in the Solomons. Guadalcanal included.
Not much points garnered in my actions so far. I plan on taking the Marshals and then Carolines next.. or maybe help the Australians in New Guinea.

Singapore is still holding on but I think they will fall soon.
Japanese has taken Darwin. 
(All other allied countries are AI)

Another good point for discussion is research and prodcution.
What to build up?

For me I have maxed out Infantry as you are really outclassed by the Japanese.
Then the Navy. Not to hot about Air power as I find them useless at this stage of the game (no stacking means too little deployment options).

[doomtrader]

Interesting. You mean those supply convoys to the Philippines don't get disrupted?

They are disrupted, but any PP is much more precious there than here.

Another good point for discussion is research and prodcution.
What to build up?

I'm trying to mix Inf with arm (5:1), as tanks are very good to break trough.

[patchogue]

I'm probably doing it wrong - but I'm aiming for naval superiority and given the devastating effect of land based aircraft this seems to be working - both the US tac air in the Phils and the British unit near Singapore have caused carnage - the AI has sent unrepaired fleets into restricted waters...big mistake! I've taken out at least two carriers and three battleships.

[jomni]

For me Air isn't working and though they're useless in the game except for recon.

[doomtrader]

Did you tried to air strike sea zones after reconing them?

[RufusTFirefly]

Are the strategic thoughts given above base upon playing against AI or against a human player?

The longer I play this game the more I get the impression that it might be that I have not yet understood how this game works or that game balancing is one of the worst I have ever seen. I am playing a lot of Advanced Tactics and think I know how to do strategical and tactical warfare. I still have a lot to learn and need to improve my performance. But I think I am not a beginner.

I am playing a pbem as US against Razz (we are at turn 32, Aug42). My losses increase without hope to stabilize the front somewhere makes me think that balancing might work playing against AI but does absolutely not work playing against an experienced player.

US fleets are permanently under pressure. There is no way to deploy a convoy and escort it. My losses due to Japanese carriers operating close to US coast are so high that once again I have to retreat to harbours and do repairs before another carrier or another BB gets lost. As soon as US navy shows up on sea they get attacked and it keeps me from any serious naval operation against Japan. Only a few patrols made it sneeking through the Japanese lines and are now able to protect the Austrailen coast from enemy fleets.

Netherland are nearly defeated. I have only two bases left. Although infantry is ready to be deployed the button is greyed and no deployment is possible. So quite soon the last Nehterland bases will be overrun.

Brits will soon loose Rangoon. A large Japanese army is moving to Calcutta and I dont see any way to stop them. The Indian Ocean is under control of Japanese navy and Gritish navy is too weak to risk any confrontation.

Chinese nations are running out of men and will soon be defeated. Yunnan was able to defend quite well for some time but its main army gets encircled and will be bleeding out within the next turns.

Worst of all is air force in this game. I completely agree with jomni that land based air force is worth for nothing than recon and some uneffective strategic bombardment. And I dont understand why I cannt do bomb raids against the same target with two different squads. I have two Australien squads, both can reach the same Japanese base. But after bombing once I am forced to chose another base for the second squad. As strategic bombardments show very little or sometimes even no effect it would be necessary to attack the same target more often to achieve any success. Tactical bombers are very expensive and building them costs too much PP that are missing to deploy infantry. And even the few tactical bombers I have are useless as they cannt attack effectively. I have not yet seen any comparable game where air force is as useless as here.
(Patchogue is reporting something different, but it is a game against AI where he sinks ships that are operating in range of tactical bombers without getting repairs.)

Sorry to say, cause I think this game has some potential. But maybe I have not understood how to use it or it is not well converted into game mechanics

[Razz1]

Well there is alot more to learn in this game.

Quote "Netherland are nearly defeated. I have only two bases left. Although infantry is ready to be deployed the button is greyed and no deployment is possible. So quite soon the last Nehterland bases will be overrun. "

That was a last minute map change before release of SOP .... Can only deploy in the city, hence no option for DEI to deploy troops except in 1 or 2 cities but they get captured right away.
DEI is suppose to fall as in WW2. Some people would say I'm too slow. It depends upon your strategy.

Quote" Worst of all is air force in this game."

It could be improved a little but remember this is not flat plains and farm land as in Europe. It's hills, jungles, mountains, swamps, all bad terrain for aircraft to score hits. That's the way is was in Asia in WW2. Air was not a big factor.

Remember you just passed the effectivity penalty for the Allies. That effects your troops and air power big time. That's the event that pops up in your face before you make a first turn. You can't ignore it. You have to manually click on it using the mouse, not the enter key. If you didn't read it, or if you did you did, you didn't understand how the penalty effects your strategy.

Your losses are high in China because I surrounded you. gwgardner resisted like Stone Wall Jackson and didn't have a problem. Except he let me out maneuver on of the Chinese factions and then made a 2 blunder with another faction. Those two blunders hurt him and he is paying big time for it.
So he just like you are collapsing like a house of cards. Once again he put Stone Wall Jackson in charge and is fiercely resisting the push into India.

Your fleet looses are devestating because it is Naval warfare and a complete different strategy needs to be used. Once again gwgardner is feeling your pain and frustration but he has managed to keep his fleet more intact. In fact the game is close to historical. Where you have lost several BB's and CA's he has only lost a few. Now, we are entering into mid game and he is competing for the ocean so his losses are high. He just made an excellant trap and hit me hard. He has widdled down my carrier force and now the trap has hurt the CA force. I think he killed a BB too. Poor Ise and the Furakata was another good ship.

Rangoon

There was a reason why Stilwell escaped with his forces. Rangoon is an excellant place to behead Britsh soldiers. Umm... that's why there aren't any troops left to protect India. Holding Rangoon hurt me hard concerning PP's. Too bad you didn't buy any transports and try to evacute. Unfortunately the transports and amphibous units have to sit in port for one turn before they leave. So, I probably would have been able to eliminate them in port.

I would try to do the same as you but use less troops. Once again I had your troops surrounded and cut off.

Jomini played as Japan and he couldn't capture any part of Java or Sumatra by turn 17

So yes, the strategy is hard in this game.

Convoys... Yes, they need to have a better chance to succeed. We may be able to fix that but it takes alot of testing and much more time.

Air power will come on stronger when you get better technology, but your still going to have the problem with the terrain. There's a reason the bombers didn't work for the USA.
They were stuck using the B-25 at low levels just above the tree tops to have any effect. Even Naval bombing was useless so they had to resort to Avengers and SBD's to do the work.
did you know the B-17's were tranfered to Europe because they were useless? They never sent anymore to the Pacific.

Fortunately the Bombers came into play only for attacking ports and cities. Remember Hiroshima? Kaboom and then KABOOM with the big BOMB

Quote "I have not yet seen any comparable game where air force is as useless as here."

Have you tried TOW? Your losses there are high too, even when it's flat terrain. Air power never has and never will eliminate an army on the ground. Look at Iraq. We even used B-17's too.

The Iraq guard was still there when we drove up. They just happily surrendered because of zero moral. BUT if they wanted to fight to the death they could have. That's the closest your going to get to an air victory and you are a far cry from that ability in WW2. You could say we were lucky here too as they didn't like Sadam's reign so best option was to welcome the USA.

Look at HOI ...Air power has been reduced drasticly there as it was way too powerful. Now it can not kill units.

Also, you have never used them for sea attacks. They work much better. For land attacks you have to pay the piper if you want to listen to his tune.
Don't get me wrong I get frustrated over land air attacks too, I use them because I know how, but I also pay big time for their applications.

Like you said it.. "But maybe I have not understood how to use it or it is not well converted into game mechanics"

Concerning this game....

You have not understood how to use the mechanics yet.
You have not understood how to use naval and land strategy yet.

I have experience from other games like playing Japan in HOI and the very first War in the Pacific on DOS in the 80's.

Each game is different and you have to learn the mechanics and then play according to that.

So basically you have to run around screaming " The Japs are comming! the Japs are comming!"

Then squat and move your arms around like a chicken. A buck buck would be good to do too!

After you run around you have to hide and be sneaky on what you do in the game unitil the Navy builds up.

This pretty much is what the Allies had to do in WW2 and that's what you have to do here if you want to survive.

Remember they tried to come out and play with the big boys and lost two carriers? The Yorktown and the Lexington.

Technically they should have lost at Midway. They got lucky, then the Dutch helped them hold New Guinea and compete for islands.

One could say we were lucky to get the A bomb before Germany.

Once again luck was on our side when Japan surrendered. We didn't have anymore A Bombs

If we would have implemented a ground assault the Americans would have been slaughterd like Custer, except the Japs would have sent a few heads back to the USA mothers.

It SUCKS being a looser and having no way out... that's the predicament the USA was in 1942 and that's surley the way I feel when I play the USA, and I can make a pretty good buck buck sound.. I use my foot a couple of times to scratch the ground for good luck.

I think the scratch helps, as look at patchogue, he is making the Japs suffer.

[RufusTFirefly]

You are right that I have not yet well understood game mechanics and have to learn more.
So maybe my critics were too harsh.

But I still dont agree concerning the air attacks. Of course air attack is not very effective when attacking in rough terrain or terrain that offers a lot of protection as jungle for example. It is different looking at bomb raids on cities. I am sending an Australian bomb sqaud to Port Moresby and attack the Japanese garrison there again and again. The Australians are not low in strength and should have some experience now after this series of bomb raids. But I dont see any effect.

And I am not talking about wiping out a units simply by air attcks. But you have just told what the effect of air attacks should be: Reducing moral and effectivity to an extend that the units cannt fight effectivly or is even unable to attack. I do not yet have seen this effect.

I have to admit that I dont have completely understood the way that sea zone bombardment works. But I think this is not only to blame on me (as having made a PhD in chemistry I should be able to understand even some mechanics that are not reduced to aboring level of simplification). It is not well explained in manuell. Maybe I am using it the wrong way, but if not I have to say that the sea zone attack is not showing the results I have expected. And I miss the possibility to attack a spotted enemy naval unit directly. Air attacks on sea were not done by sending a squad some where telling them: Look if you can find something and attack if possible.

Maybe I have judged too much from exepriences I made in other games were I am mainly fighting at European theaters. Air units were very important there just from the beginning. A reason for the quick victory in poland was that the Polish air force was nearly completely eliminated at a sudden strike of German Luftwaffe at the first days of war. Otherwise polish air force might have caused some trouble for German army and slowed down the advance giving Poland more time to build up defensive positions.

And maybe I should wait how situation changes in later time of war when US air force has developped better fighters and bombers. But in case I am defeated quickly I will not be able to benefit from any improvemment of air units. And that is what I am complaining about. An easy defeat at all fronts will cause and early victory for Japan and make it impossible to come to a point where the game gets more challenging and thrilling due to equalized chances for both sides.

Rangoon:

The fall of Rangoon is nothing I complain about - maybe this was misunderstandable. It was just telling at what point of the war we are standing. The fight for Rangoon is even something I am quite confident with. My aim was to defend the area as long as possible to force Japan to send more units there that are not available for an advance towards Calcutta and deeper into India. This giving me time to build up a strong defence in India. It has worked so far I think.

This is an example of the quality of SotP. Land combat is not a simple attck and defeat or attack and throw back the enemy. The attacks last some turns and it takes a while for the attacker to break the defence. It makes land combat challenging. Of course it is understood that a fight will not last long in case the enemy is encircled. Therefore tactical manoeuvres are something essential and I like this in this game. I did it when moving chinese units closer to the Yunnan positions to build a close frontline and prevent the Yunnan forces from being outflanked on their western positions. As well I have tried to move units to the back area of advancing Japanese units to cut off supply lines. It does not always work as well as I want. But this is due to your movements and part of our fight.

At least I want to point out that I will continue playing SotP and try to improve my performence. As said before this game has some potential and I want to see how I can make it work.