Unit icon reference chart

[Queeg]

I had not originally planned to buy this game, but I now think I will because I love the fact that they don't use NATO-style counters. Thumbs up!

[Kipper]

ORIGINAL: Queeg

I had not originally planned to buy this game, but I now think I will because I love the fact that they don't use NATO-style counters. Thumbs up!

There ya go - no accounting for taste [;)]

[Queeg]

ORIGINAL: Kipper

ORIGINAL: Queeg

I had not originally planned to buy this game, but I now think I will because I love the fact that they don't use NATO-style counters. Thumbs up!

There ya go - no accounting for taste [;)]

I actually generally prefer counters myself, but gameplay comes first. Sounds like this one has it. And counters will follow.

[Kipper]

Well gameplay hidden behind a silly-looking interface ain't much fun. All down to how silly it seems to you, I reckon.

[Duck Doc]

^Don't feed the trolls. It just encourages them.

[Queeg]

ORIGINAL: Dale H

^Don't feed the trolls. It just encourages them.

Agreed!

[Toby42]

Kipper, it's really a neat little game. I don't care for the silly figurines, but I can get past them. Hopefully some nice Nato Counters will show up.

[Kipper]

ORIGINAL: Treale

Kipper, it's really a neat little game. I don't care for the silly figurines, but I can get past them. Hopefully some nice Nato Counters will show up.

Thanks for the advice Tony I am going to give in and buy it tomorrow. All the indications are that this is something pretty special. It'll have to be for me to get past those heads LOL. I am sure lots of quality artwork went into them but they just ain't for me.

[Duck Doc]

Let us know how you like it.

ORIGINAL: Kipper
Thanks for the advice Tony I am going to give in and buy it tomorrow. All the indications are that this is something pretty special. It'll have to be for me to get past those heads LOL. I am sure lots of quality artwork went into them but they just ain't for me.

[gdrover]

Downloaded it yesterday and played the tutorial and five scenarios in the German Campaign.

Really loving this game. It's challenging, fun, and the AI is pretty solid.

I wasn't sure I'd like the heads either, but I appreciate the aesthetic, and they did, in fact, grow on me.

Nice work guys.

I just know I'm going to burn through this game quickly, so the premature and obvious question: When can we get more?
I'm already wanting a mega scenario (200 turns) that covers the entire Russian campaign for armee group south.

Cheers

[JudgeDredd]

^ I don't know - part of the appeal for me is the smaller turns. I'd like a grand campaign (North, South, Central) - but just more scenarios - not necessarily much bigger turns.

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

^ I don't know - part of the appeal for me is the smaller turns. I'd like a grand campaign (North, South, Central) - but just more scenarios - not necessarily much bigger turns.

That's my feeling also. If I want a monster game, I have WITE....

[sbdb]

ORIGINAL: Kipper

Well, leaving aside your snide and obvious reply

Snide reply? Obvious? The dear man is just explaining why they used that approach. Allow me to quote what one of their customers wrote on their forum:

"I like the "weird little busts" and the squat little tanks. They're informative and give the game a chess-like atmosphere"

Their response was: "Yes, it's all intended, especially the chess vibe."

This was days before you replied, so no....there is no "obvious" reply and there was no "unpleasant attitude" the way you put it. It also shows again that there ARE actually many people who actually like the design and yes, sometimes it does need to grow on them.

These developers have the guts to innovate (which is always risky), it should be applauded with respect and not with personal attacks. I've said this many times in the past; for this genre to reach out to more people, it needs a serious update in graphics and GUI design. The problem is that we've hardly seen any of this over the last 10 years. Most of the games in this genre look plain ugly! Whether it's a top design or not, I can tell you this as an experienced graphics artist/designer; it sure looks a LOT better than most of the games in this genre.

As a developer in this genre you can't turn your head away from the gaming community that plays modern day games like Crysis 2, BF3, Mafia II, etc and then continue with the same ugly designs for about 10 years, you reach a point when people say; "I know that I shouldn't expect BF3 graphics with such a small development team and budget, but c'mon....". For this genre to survive, it simple needs to attract new customers who never played this genre. You cannot go on with this genre fueled by nothing but old-timers, it will kill it. If it means losing a customer like you, so be it, but we have to move on.

These guys do understand that. Also their excellent work on the manual just shows that they understand that this genre needs to move forward, it's stuck in the same patterns for too long.

Just my 2 cents. [;)]

ORIGINAL: Kipper

Anyway, a no-buy on the toy heads/unfinished game and unpleasant attitude.

Every game has room for improvement, but this game should most certainly not be qualified as "unfinished". It's unfair of you to say that.

[Kipper]

Whoa, looks like a stumbled onto the dev mutal support society. [:)][;)]

Seriously, that was a good post, thanks, and a good first post to a forum.

Just to make some comments on your points.

and there was no "unpleasant attitude" the way you put it.

The guy stated it wasn't his intention, I immediately put the whole thing out of my mind. I have closed the book on this and will only discuss it if contacted by a mod or the dev directly.

You cannot go on with this genre fueled by nothing but old-timers, it will kill it.

Now listen here sonny, I might be getting a bit long in the tooth but I have never been described as being a "fuel" before. I am hoping for a few years before that happens!

ORIGINAL: sbdb
If it means losing a customer like you, so be it, but we have to move on.

OK, OK, back up here. Who is "we"? If you are talking about your company or who you work for, who? Are you speaking for Matrix? Do you see this as a wide-industry trend of the future? Who is "we"? I am interested in learning more about industry trends, I see them as a customer but it's nice to get a dev/publisher's view.

I think it's good for the dev for me to go on a forum and say "I am not buying because X". It's a positive thing to do. It's not criticism and it's not grouching. It's sometimes taken up like that by devs and fanbois. But sometimes it's meant to help. It's feedback. It's free market research that can help the dev/publisher make design and commercial decisions. And it's good for me if I take the trouble to post such a comment because I make a little contribution that might help push devs in the direction of the types of products I want. Win-win for all. I will continue to do it if/when the occasion arises.

But to go back to your comment

If it means losing a customer like you, so be it, but we have to move on.

Absolutely acceptable. That's a business choice. I finally backed off from buying because it looks as if the NATO icons haven't appeared yet. It sounds like a good game but not for the dinosaur like me. Just couldn't pull the trigger. You've lost me. If you lose one of me and make two new customers you have made a good commercial choice.

Another alternative is to build some flexibility into the product so that the "old-timers" as you call them have an option to get a small variation in the UI. Not much. Different icons sometimes. Then you have three sales instead of two.

If that can't or won't be done, well, fine. I have been buying PC wargames for decades (and Matrix games for 10 years) and I'll just go back to boardgames. I have seen Betamax video and the Sony Walkman come and go, I'll get over it! The last 14 years have left me with lot of future pc gaming anyway, and I am grateful for that.

Every game has room for improvement, but this game should most certainly not be qualified as "unfinished". It's unfair of you to say that.

Yes, you have convinced me it was unfair and I retract and apologise without hesitation. They made a product for a different market segment than I am in, and I was trying to force it back into my market segment. Your post helped me realise that explicitly (though I knew it implicitly I think) so thanks for that and your response as a whole.


Man, I feel so old after all that. I am (only!) forty-something.

Good luck with your game - NATO icons or no!

[Queeg]

As I posted earlier, I generally prefer NATO icons. But I don't miss them at all here.

This probably is the most polished game I've bought in ages, and the UI - including the unique chess-like pieces - is a big part of the appeal.

[rjh1971]

ORIGINAL: Kipper

ORIGINAL: Treale

Kipper, it's really a neat little game. I don't care for the silly figurines, but I can get past them. Hopefully some nice Nato Counters will show up.

Thanks for the advice Tony I am going to give in and buy it tomorrow. All the indications are that this is something pretty special. It'll have to be for me to get past those heads LOL. I am sure lots of quality artwork went into them but they just ain't for me.

So did you finally get it?

I did so last friday and I'm greatly enjoying it, despise the little heads that first put me off, but I read only praisings in all threads so I decided to get it.