Hasty Mod - test

[Redmarkus5]

Bought it because I'm travelling, bored and waiting for a WiTE turn from Carnage

Hate the 3D unit icons so I did a quick 45 minute mod (partial) to put some basic 2D units in place.

It's easy to do and the game should have shipped with better versions of these.

[AZKGungHo]

Looks like a good start, I too don't like the icons. Actually the armored ones look okay, but I wish they had made the infantry full figures, not those weird little busts running around Russia - creepy!

[Redmarkus5]

And on a bigger map. Can't see how to remove the annoying SP dots from on top of the units. Anyone?

[Redmarkus5]

Yeah - I will just play with mine for now until someone does a proper mod. I don't have the graphics skills but just wanted to show how easy it would be to do.

Devs - this would surely help your sales if you could provide a 2D units option.

ORIGINAL: AZ Gung Ho

Looks like a good start, I too don't like the icons. Actually the armored ones look okay, but I wish they had made the infantry full figures, not those weird little busts running around Russia - creepy!

[Blubel]

Thanks. It is good to know that the icons can be modded. I will however wait for someone to do a Nato or German symbols mod before buying the game...

[Wolfe1759]

As a Nato icon enthusiast (i.e. crusty old school board wargamer) that this can be produced as a potential mod within hours of release is highly encouraging, thanks for your impressively rapid creativity.

[ComradeP]

It's a nice mod for the people that absolutely need to have boardgame like counters and who can't stand actual graphical representations of their units. As I am still young and grew up with computer wargames, I don't feel the same kind of nostalgia of "must...have...NATO...counters" that many of you do, but I can understand why some of you prefer it.

As to the "weird little busts": I see those every time I play chess, so they don't really bother me. What matters is that you can immediately spot which side a piece belongs to and what it does, and even with the "weird little busts" I doubt anyone has any real problems with that.

The only confusing piece in my opinion could be the Romanians due to the brown uniforms.

I don't think the game "should" have shipped with traditional boardgame counters for the very simple reason that it isn't a traditional boardgame.

[Wolfe1759]

ComradeP you may well be right and I might when I buy the game (which I'm rather close to doing) rather get to like the "weird little busts" in the same way I rather like the unit/leader "portrait" graphics in RUS. At least I don't have to trim 1,000+ counters when buying a computer game [:)]

[AZKGungHo]

Hey Comrade P,

Point taken, it's not a board game, but I guess our chess pieces are different, mine are abstract, no little busts running around on my chess board. Oh well, to each his own and hopefully some good mods will be available soon. Now to the real issues - like should I buy this game!!

[ComradeP]

I'll certainly do my best to develop scenarios as soon as the scenario editor is functional.

With regards to chess, I'm mostly referring to the knight, which is usually a horsehead without a body and without any trace of an actual knight, but you still know what it is and does just by looking at it.

[Redmarkus5]

I'm not saying that 2D is 'better' than 3D

The only reason I said the game 'should have shipped with 2D counters' is just that many gamers prefer that option and sales would go much better IMO if it is included.

Many have posted on the forum that they will not buy until counters are added or modded, so I wanted to demo that it's easy to do. I estimate that if I worked in the dev team I could complete a full set of 2D alternative counters (WiTE style) within 2-3 days.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
I don't feel the same kind of nostalgia of "must...have...NATO...counters" that many of you do,

It's not a nostalgia thing, it's a matter of UI clarity. For those of us who grew up with Nato counters we take one look at a map and immediatly get a good picture of which kind of troops are where, where there are concentrations of tanks etc. It's a symbol language we learned to read a long time ago and it was pretty universal so we could apply this skill to a lot of games.

*Not* using Nato symbols means that we need to get accustomed to whatever symbolic representations a particular developer deemed fun to use, which of course can be done, but the point is that we shouldn't need to go through this learning phaze. If it's so easy to put Nato counters in there, they should have been in there as an option from the start, as it cuts down on the learning curve for guys like me.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[ComradeP]

There are only a handful of unit types, it's not like you have to memorize dozens.

In my opinion, NATO symbols are primarily useful when there are so many unit types around that you need a system of symbols that everybody understands in order to make sense of it all. For a game the size of WitE, it's something of a must, but for this game? Not really.

[Erik Rutins]

I have to agree with Pieter, but the game is very easily moddable for those that prefer the counter look. Don't hesitate because of the lack of counters. If a good mod does not appear, I'll do one myself just to encourage you guys to give the game a try.

Regards,

- Erik

[SeaMonkey]

If someone does do the Nato counters can we please have them with just the Nato symbol floating on the map hex, the background counter intrudes on the map topography. The attachments, steps, names, actions, etc. can still be somewhere near the symbol contained in the occupying hex, but let's not hide the terrain that resides in the hex.

In this configuration the map play will resemble the map deployments in our reference books.

[Toby42]

The "Funny" looking unit counters turned me off. I guess that I'm just an old fuddy duddy!!

[Redmarkus5]

OK, I'm going to try and do a NATO units mod with smaller counters than the hasty test ones posted here. If anybody has screens shots of counters they like, please post them here to give me inspiration.

I will also look at the map files to see whether a place names mod is possible - many of the towns are just little unnamed houses on the map...

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
OK, I'm going to try and do a NATO units mod with smaller counters than the hasty test ones posted here.

3 cheers for RedMarkus4 !

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[nenad]

We won't be adding the counter option anytime soon. However, I'd love to see a well executed nato mod. As already demonstrated - this is fairly easy to do technically. It doesn't involve a lot of physical work because the total number of different unit icons is relatively small.

As for learning; when starting off with a new game, you always have to learn something you didn't know previously. Otherwise you'd want to play only the games you already know
In UoC, learning the unit icons is a tiny tiny fraction of total stuff you need to learn to play successfully, predominantly - the rules.

Unit icon designs employ a rather simple associative scheme. "Learning" it is a matter of seconds really:

tank = armored division
small tank = inferior armored division (i.e. romanian or hungarian)
halftrack (sdkfz) = pzgrenadier division
head = infantry division (different uniform = different nationality)
head + truck = motorized division
head + horse = cavalry

That's all there is.

We feel that this is adequate for everybody - people who know how to read nato symbols as well as the ones who don't.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: nenad

We won't be adding the counter option anytime soon. However, I'd love to see a well executed nato mod. As already demonstrated - this is fairly easy to do technically. It doesn't involve a lot of physical work because the total number of different unit icons is relatively small.

As for learning; when starting off with a new game, you always have to learn something you didn't know previously. Otherwise you'd want to play only the games you already know
In UoC, learning the unit icons is a tiny tiny fraction of total stuff you need to learn to play successfully, predominantly - the rules.

Unit icon designs employ a rather simple associative scheme. "Learning" it is a matter of seconds really:

tank = armored division
small tank = inferior armored division (i.e. romanian or hungarian)
halftrack (sdkfz) = pzgrenadier division
head = infantry division (different uniform = different nationality)
head + truck = motorized division
head + horse = cavalry

That's all there is.

We feel that this is adequate for everybody - people who know how to read nato symbols as well as the ones who don't.

thanks. It's not learning the 3D counters that's problematic though - many of us just don't like them. Let's see what becomes of my mod attempt.