Vettim89 vs Greasylake - Reversal of Fortunes
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Capt. Harlock
- Posts: 5379
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Los Angeles
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RE: Game is likely over
Ouch -- what a shame. I assume Larry scanned his computer for viruses after you had the problem?
Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?
--Victor Hugo
--Victor Hugo
RE: Game is likely over
beside that if it was a virus or not, WITP and AE seem to have some problems with antivirus software. so never delete a file which your antivirus software was not able to scan after the scan is done! if you do that you can not start AITp or AE and have to reinstall the game.
anyway, it was a great game and a good read. thanks to both of you.
anyway, it was a great game and a good read. thanks to both of you.
RE: Game is likely over
ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock
Ouch -- what a shame. I assume Larry scanned his computer for viruses after you had the problem?
To be honest I am not sure it was a virus at all. I think it is possible Larry may have hardware issues. The file could just be stored on a bad sector on his harddrive. That said, Larry tried to roll back the turn and he could not open the old file. I have to wonder if a reinstall might work but considering his current situation in game, I can certainly understand Larry's lack of interest. Still have not heard from him.
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
FInal words
It is confirmed, the game has concluded. Attched screenie from the IJ side shows I was just below 2 to 1. Between Manila, Singers, and Kadina plus Strategic Losses, it would have been done by the end of March 1945. WIll post some notes in here over the next few days.
Gonna go peak at Larry's AAR and he is now welcome in mine. Still a great game. No regrets.
Oh, BTW, Larry had 2200 Oil in his pool at games end. Guess my strategy paid off
Cheers,
Tim
Gonna go peak at Larry's AAR and he is now welcome in mine. Still a great game. No regrets.
Oh, BTW, Larry had 2200 Oil in his pool at games end. Guess my strategy paid off
Cheers,
Tim
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"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: FInal words
I did enjoy this read since the beginning. Great game and interesting AAR , thank you.
RE: FInal words
Before I recap some things, I would like to express some thank yous.
First to Brian (Big B) for designing this mod. In the final stages of WiTP it was considered one of the better mods and I have to agree.
Second to Nemo for his treatise on Leicester's Laws in the Forlorn Hopes AAR. While not directly in this AAR, I learned a lot about how to conduct ops. I rolled base after base once I stopped dividing my forces. Overwhelming force at the tip of the spear and then on to the next op.
Next is Alfred who chimed in with some excellant advice especially early when I was getting my bearings.
Finally a group of posters who provided me with sage advice like NYGiants who told me to set up a back up transfer point early in the war behind Pago Pago. Larry occupied me for a couple of months around PP and the base at Papete I beleive kept stuff flowing south. I could name you all but would probably forget some one important so just a thanks to all.
Alas, like Adm. Montoya I am at a loss. To quote Inigo: "I have been in the revenge business for so long, I don't know what to do next". Perhaps I would make a good Pirate Roberts
First to Brian (Big B) for designing this mod. In the final stages of WiTP it was considered one of the better mods and I have to agree.
Second to Nemo for his treatise on Leicester's Laws in the Forlorn Hopes AAR. While not directly in this AAR, I learned a lot about how to conduct ops. I rolled base after base once I stopped dividing my forces. Overwhelming force at the tip of the spear and then on to the next op.
Next is Alfred who chimed in with some excellant advice especially early when I was getting my bearings.
Finally a group of posters who provided me with sage advice like NYGiants who told me to set up a back up transfer point early in the war behind Pago Pago. Larry occupied me for a couple of months around PP and the base at Papete I beleive kept stuff flowing south. I could name you all but would probably forget some one important so just a thanks to all.
Alas, like Adm. Montoya I am at a loss. To quote Inigo: "I have been in the revenge business for so long, I don't know what to do next". Perhaps I would make a good Pirate Roberts
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: FInal words
Hoping Larry will post in here soon. I read his AAR but a lot of it is economic stuff which might as well be written in a foreign languge. In fact I think it is written in a foreign language.
So this war turned in 1943. There was heavy fighting in the Gilberts and Marshalls and things where dicey for a while. The nearly failed invasion of Tarawa was very close. In our version of the war an enormous amount of attention was paid to SEAC where Burma was entirely liberated by the end of 1943. After clearing the Marshalls and Gilberts in 1943, I shifted focus to the DEI. Here the war was won not only in destruction of Japanese units but in acquiring bases that completely isolated Japan from its principle oil sources. Kamikazes appeared very early because Larry failed to conquer Pakhoi in SW China. This coastal city met the Kami activation requirements and it was on. Still I lost more ships in the last 15 months of war from conventional attacks than Kamikazes I believe although CVE seemed to be Kamikaze magnets.
I would say this war was won at Timor. When I invaded there I was concerned. A protracted battle ala Tarawa or Wake would have cost me enough shipping to perhaps alter the course of the war. However, once Lautem was taken, the die was cast. Within a month I had three AB's with SPS of 2 or more. That said my Coup de Main was without a doubt Padang. Larry's failure to clean up the map cost him big time here. I lost a lot of ships here and had the entire RN CV fleet crippled for months. Once the AB went to 5 though it was over. No oil left Palembang after that point and the Japanese economy was dead. The Commonwealth troops, planes, and ships were critical to my winning the war.
I would not be too critical of Larry's production choices as I really don't understand that part of the game at all. Still, it does puzzle me a little to see all those late war CV's with poor quality aircrews. Seems to me a little less aggressive Naval building program and more aggressive a/c building might have served him better. That said, I really have no idea of what I am talking about.
So this war turned in 1943. There was heavy fighting in the Gilberts and Marshalls and things where dicey for a while. The nearly failed invasion of Tarawa was very close. In our version of the war an enormous amount of attention was paid to SEAC where Burma was entirely liberated by the end of 1943. After clearing the Marshalls and Gilberts in 1943, I shifted focus to the DEI. Here the war was won not only in destruction of Japanese units but in acquiring bases that completely isolated Japan from its principle oil sources. Kamikazes appeared very early because Larry failed to conquer Pakhoi in SW China. This coastal city met the Kami activation requirements and it was on. Still I lost more ships in the last 15 months of war from conventional attacks than Kamikazes I believe although CVE seemed to be Kamikaze magnets.
I would say this war was won at Timor. When I invaded there I was concerned. A protracted battle ala Tarawa or Wake would have cost me enough shipping to perhaps alter the course of the war. However, once Lautem was taken, the die was cast. Within a month I had three AB's with SPS of 2 or more. That said my Coup de Main was without a doubt Padang. Larry's failure to clean up the map cost him big time here. I lost a lot of ships here and had the entire RN CV fleet crippled for months. Once the AB went to 5 though it was over. No oil left Palembang after that point and the Japanese economy was dead. The Commonwealth troops, planes, and ships were critical to my winning the war.
I would not be too critical of Larry's production choices as I really don't understand that part of the game at all. Still, it does puzzle me a little to see all those late war CV's with poor quality aircrews. Seems to me a little less aggressive Naval building program and more aggressive a/c building might have served him better. That said, I really have no idea of what I am talking about.
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: FInal words
Going to go over the map a bit now that I have been able to study Larry's turn file. First USSR/Russia.
I was in better shape here than the most recent results led me to believe. The IJA troops at Hailor, Mishan and Heiho were in worse shape than I thought. Supplies were low and disruption was high. I think a little more pushing here would have brought some nice results. To my surprise the IJA troops at Okha were in better shape than I thought. I think that base may have fallen into Japanese hand very soon. However, the bases in southern Sakhalin were almost devoid of combat troops. If I would have gone for a Spring offensive here, I would have taken both bases with minimal force. As I suspected nearly all the combat force of the IJA was forward deployed. If I would have broken out near Harbin, it would have been a rout. Also, my planned ops to take Masan and Fusan would not only have gone well (only fortresses at those bases) but also there were no combat units in the Korean peninsula south of the one base opposite Vlad. US forces would probably have been able to roll to Port Blair or beyond unopposed. If the game could have gotten to May the 11000 plus AV heading in would probably have rolled most of northern China also.
More to come tomorrow.
(edit: intial post was written at 1 AM and you could tell)
I was in better shape here than the most recent results led me to believe. The IJA troops at Hailor, Mishan and Heiho were in worse shape than I thought. Supplies were low and disruption was high. I think a little more pushing here would have brought some nice results. To my surprise the IJA troops at Okha were in better shape than I thought. I think that base may have fallen into Japanese hand very soon. However, the bases in southern Sakhalin were almost devoid of combat troops. If I would have gone for a Spring offensive here, I would have taken both bases with minimal force. As I suspected nearly all the combat force of the IJA was forward deployed. If I would have broken out near Harbin, it would have been a rout. Also, my planned ops to take Masan and Fusan would not only have gone well (only fortresses at those bases) but also there were no combat units in the Korean peninsula south of the one base opposite Vlad. US forces would probably have been able to roll to Port Blair or beyond unopposed. If the game could have gotten to May the 11000 plus AV heading in would probably have rolled most of northern China also.
More to come tomorrow.
(edit: intial post was written at 1 AM and you could tell)
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: FInal words
China:
I was shocked to see how little supply was in China. I always thought of this being a self-sufficient region for the Japanese with the resource centers and industry being able to support the IJA. Only Sian had adequate supply levels with most bases in the orange of even red zone. Canton and Hong Kong were in especially bad shape. Hong Kong had no combat troops there. If the Commonwealth troops had put to sea after taken Singers, they could have rolled southern China. Also my large convoy with supply was less than two weeks out of Pakhoi. I suspect even the poorly trained Chinese troops with ample supply would have been able to cause some damage.
I was shocked to see how little supply was in China. I always thought of this being a self-sufficient region for the Japanese with the resource centers and industry being able to support the IJA. Only Sian had adequate supply levels with most bases in the orange of even red zone. Canton and Hong Kong were in especially bad shape. Hong Kong had no combat troops there. If the Commonwealth troops had put to sea after taken Singers, they could have rolled southern China. Also my large convoy with supply was less than two weeks out of Pakhoi. I suspect even the poorly trained Chinese troops with ample supply would have been able to cause some damage.
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: FInal words
vettim89,
Just read the last few posts. Congratulations on the victory and your too generous comments.
It was a nicely written AAR, balancing well the provision of tactical and strategic issues. Since you mentioned your opponents AAR is written in a foreign language, I'll now have to pop over there and read those balance sheets.
Regarding what to do now. You could try playing as Japan. However there is also that little creature called WITP:AE to deal with, either by play or developing a mod which you already seem to be interested in.
Alfred
Just read the last few posts. Congratulations on the victory and your too generous comments.
It was a nicely written AAR, balancing well the provision of tactical and strategic issues. Since you mentioned your opponents AAR is written in a foreign language, I'll now have to pop over there and read those balance sheets.
Regarding what to do now. You could try playing as Japan. However there is also that little creature called WITP:AE to deal with, either by play or developing a mod which you already seem to be interested in.
Alfred
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GreasyLake
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:10 am
RE: FInal words
A short note for now, just got home from work and out of curiosity read the last couple of Tim's post. Will put up some more tomorrow as time allows.
I believe the reason for the low supply in China is again the lack of oil (although there was over 30K at my northern land stack base). Oil from Palembang et-al has been cut off for what?, a year. I think that was one of the best moves Tim made, going for DEI once route to Australia was cleared. Closing off by air from Malay peninsula really hurt also.
I never felt even close to taking Ohka. Could of done it in the first few weeks if I had landed the 4 Div embarked as originally planned (what was that about one focal point for attack?) Someone forgot about extra disruption caused by landing in the middle of winter in the arctic. (first winter on the Russian front in WWII anyone?) It really opened my eyes up to why Tim was not able to take every base he landed at on the first day. Even overwhelming force must need some time to re-organize.
Hong Kong and Canton had been cut-off from supply as soon as the oil stopped also. Have to go back for the dates. Air was interrupting supply runs there way back. It surprised me that Tim's units (just N of Canton) were in as bad of shape as mine. Rags of men fighting others rags as in the trenches of France.
Was not ready for or expecting any kind of landing on the Korean peninsula. It just makes sense now that I know about it. I was always expecting an invasion of the main islands once Iwo was secure and my air seemed neutered.
I think I had the base SW of Ohka garrisoned well but have not looked lately. The Island with Sapporo I felt somewhat secure about also but may have to spend some time checking the map to get my facts straight.
One last comment on kamikazes. The only time I think I really used them was from the southern Philippines Borneo area. Used in conjunction with LBA seemed to help. Helens and whatever the other 2E bomber was called helped bag Lex II if I remember correctly. Of course a lot of them just hit LST's also.
Will check the map and see if I can fill in some info for Tim tomorrow. Might not make me look like the brightest bulb in the bunch but would love to add to his most excellent AAR. (I really like how he explained the surface action at Oki, made sense out of the game engine's resolving the action for me.)
I believe the reason for the low supply in China is again the lack of oil (although there was over 30K at my northern land stack base). Oil from Palembang et-al has been cut off for what?, a year. I think that was one of the best moves Tim made, going for DEI once route to Australia was cleared. Closing off by air from Malay peninsula really hurt also.
I never felt even close to taking Ohka. Could of done it in the first few weeks if I had landed the 4 Div embarked as originally planned (what was that about one focal point for attack?) Someone forgot about extra disruption caused by landing in the middle of winter in the arctic. (first winter on the Russian front in WWII anyone?) It really opened my eyes up to why Tim was not able to take every base he landed at on the first day. Even overwhelming force must need some time to re-organize.
Hong Kong and Canton had been cut-off from supply as soon as the oil stopped also. Have to go back for the dates. Air was interrupting supply runs there way back. It surprised me that Tim's units (just N of Canton) were in as bad of shape as mine. Rags of men fighting others rags as in the trenches of France.
Was not ready for or expecting any kind of landing on the Korean peninsula. It just makes sense now that I know about it. I was always expecting an invasion of the main islands once Iwo was secure and my air seemed neutered.
I think I had the base SW of Ohka garrisoned well but have not looked lately. The Island with Sapporo I felt somewhat secure about also but may have to spend some time checking the map to get my facts straight.
One last comment on kamikazes. The only time I think I really used them was from the southern Philippines Borneo area. Used in conjunction with LBA seemed to help. Helens and whatever the other 2E bomber was called helped bag Lex II if I remember correctly. Of course a lot of them just hit LST's also.
Will check the map and see if I can fill in some info for Tim tomorrow. Might not make me look like the brightest bulb in the bunch but would love to add to his most excellent AAR. (I really like how he explained the surface action at Oki, made sense out of the game engine's resolving the action for me.)
Per U.S. Grant; Logistics, Logistics, Logistics.
RE: FInal words
ORIGINAL: GreasyLake
A short note for now, just got home from work and out of curiosity read the last couple of Tim's post. Will put up some more tomorrow as time allows.
I believe the reason for the low supply in China is again the lack of oil (although there was over 30K at my northern land stack base). Oil from Palembang et-al has been cut off for what?, a year. I think that was one of the best moves Tim made, going for DEI once route to Australia was cleared. Closing off by air from Malay peninsula really hurt also.
I guess I thought the free supply resource centers provided would be enough to keep things going.
I never felt even close to taking Ohka. Could of done it in the first few weeks if I had landed the 4 Div embarked as originally planned (what was that about one focal point for attack?) Someone forgot about extra disruption caused by landing in the middle of winter in the arctic. (first winter on the Russian front in WWII anyone?) It really opened my eyes up to why Tim was not able to take every base he landed at on the first day. Even overwhelming force must need some time to re-organize.
The retaking of the areas Larry took was so much harder than when he took them. In 1941 and early 1942, I had paper units with little supply in defense. Hitting well fortified bases with even moderate AV was a tough challenge. That is why I bypassed the Marianas. Not so much that I thought I couldn't take them but instead because of the time it would take
Hong Kong and Canton had been cut-off from supply as soon as the oil stopped also. Have to go back for the dates. Air was interrupting supply runs there way back. It surprised me that Tim's units (just N of Canton) were in as bad of shape as mine. Rags of men fighting others rags as in the trenches of France.
Was not ready for or expecting any kind of landing on the Korean peninsula. It just makes sense now that I know about it. I was always expecting an invasion of the main islands once Iwo was secure and my air seemed neutered.
I think I had the base SW of Ohka garrisoned well but have not looked lately. The Island with Sapporo I felt somewhat secure about also but may have to spend some time checking the map to get my facts straight.
Not sure but I think a three or four divison strong effort could have cleared Shokuku and the bottom base just had BF's IIRC
One last comment on kamikazes. The only time I think I really used them was from the southern Philippines Borneo area. Used in conjunction with LBA seemed to help. Helens and whatever the other 2E bomber was called helped bag Lex II if I remember correctly. Of course a lot of them just hit LST's also.
Will check the map and see if I can fill in some info for Tim tomorrow. Might not make me look like the brightest bulb in the bunch but would love to add to his most excellent AAR. (I really like how he explained the surface action at Oki, made sense out of the game engine's resolving the action for me.)
Target selection not the Kamikaze's strong point although the seemed to be very fond of CVE's any time they were left alone. I was more bothered that Pakhoi triggered the arrival. I think bases in China should not count towarsd the activation. Then again if we played a few more weeks and the 400K of supplly arrived at Pakhoi, I may be singing a different song
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry