Bettys in the sky with diamonds- Gladiatt (A) vs John_Smid (J). No John please

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Arstavidios

hi,
It's hard to close airfields using airpower. And repairs occur rapidly a soon as you stop bombing. 4E bombers can be pretty efficient though. But after a few days a lot of planes get damaged as they rey repair quite slowly.

Actually, when you (gladiatt) were complaining that you "only" had 65% damage on the airfield, that is a good thing! Anything OVER 50% is going to close down the airfield (except for transferring stuff OUT of the field).

Of course, Fog of War might give you false numbers of what percentage of the airfield is ACTUALLY damaged, but you want to keep damage at above 50%.

Not only does that keep the airfield closed, it prevents any fortifications from being built.

No, the rule states that runway are closed for CAP when damaged are above 50 + Airfield level x 5 .
Yesterday, i had an airfield of level 6 with 67% runway damaged.
Today, my fighters made CAP as usual.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Arstavidios

hi,
It's hard to close airfields using airpower. And repairs occur rapidly a soon as you stop bombing. 4E bombers can be pretty efficient though. But after a few days a lot of planes get damaged as they rey repair quite slowly.

Actually, when you (gladiatt) were complaining that you "only" had 65% damage on the airfield, that is a good thing! Anything OVER 50% is going to close down the airfield (except for transferring stuff OUT of the field).

Of course, Fog of War might give you false numbers of what percentage of the airfield is ACTUALLY damaged, but you want to keep damage at above 50%.

Not only does that keep the airfield closed, it prevents any fortifications from being built.

No, the rule states that runway are closed for CAP when damaged are above 50 + Airfield level x 5 .
Yesterday, i had an airfield of level 6 with 67% runway damaged.
Today, my fighters made CAP as usual.

Hmmmm.... despite airfield size, AND despite the rule, i've never been able to have anything fly at over 50% damage... so, i am not sure what the truth is given the claim of Rominet. [&:]

i know in my games it is 51% - nothing happens.

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso



Actually, when you (gladiatt) were complaining that you "only" had 65% damage on the airfield, that is a good thing! Anything OVER 50% is going to close down the airfield (except for transferring stuff OUT of the field).

Of course, Fog of War might give you false numbers of what percentage of the airfield is ACTUALLY damaged, but you want to keep damage at above 50%.

Not only does that keep the airfield closed, it prevents any fortifications from being built.

No, the rule states that runway are closed for CAP when damaged are above 50 + Airfield level x 5 .
Yesterday, i had an airfield of level 6 with 67% runway damaged.
Today, my fighters made CAP as usual.

Hmmmm.... despite airfield size, AND despite the rule, i've never been able to have anything fly at over 50% damage... so, i am not sure what the truth is given the claim of Rominet. [&:]

i know in my games it is 51% - nothing happens.

It is very easy to check with the editor and the scenar 4 for example.
Send some B-17 on Rabaul with 67 runway damaged.
If the airfield is 4, CAP is OK.
If the airfield is 3, no CAP.
It is in the section 9.4.1 of the rules.

If it doesn't work, that's the proof we definitively don't have the same version of WitP.[;)]

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: rominet




No, the rule states that runway are closed for CAP when damaged are above 50 + Airfield level x 5 .
Yesterday, i had an airfield of level 6 with 67% runway damaged.
Today, my fighters made CAP as usual.

Hmmmm.... despite airfield size, AND despite the rule, i've never been able to have anything fly at over 50% damage... so, i am not sure what the truth is given the claim of Rominet. [&:]

i know in my games it is 51% - nothing happens.

It is very easy to check with the editor and the scenar 4 for example.
Send some B-17 on Rabaul with 67 runway damaged.
If the airfield is 4, CAP is OK.
If the airfield is 3, no CAP.
It is in the section 9.4.1 of the rules.

If it doesn't work, that's the proof we definitively don't have the same version of WitP.[;)]

i know it is in the rules, however, in my PBEM, the game does not agree with the rules... this is not a big surprise in my experience.

EDIT: Possibly it is scenario dependent... i am running CHS, but it also happened in WITP-vanilla.

Perhaps it may make a difference if you are playing AI vs. PBEM... i know a lot of the "rules" are completely different for the AI (i.e. - look at the rules for PT boats that are disbanded into port... the AI will automatically form up TFs and attack anything attacking their port, but that doesn't happen in PBEM.) Other "rules" seem to be quite different for the AI as well.

[rtrapasso]

One "experiment" that gladiatt could try is bombing the airfield again... if no CAP comes up, it is likely it is knocked out. If it does come up, assuming it wasn't LR CAP, then it likely wasn't knocked out.

[rominet]

I am playing PBEM against Emek;
the tests were done human against human.
Same results in both cases.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: rominet

I am playing PBEM against Emek;
the tests were done human against human.
Same results in both cases.

Very odd... what version of WITP are you playing? i am playing 1.806.

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: rominet

I am playing PBEM against Emek;
the tests were done human against human.
Same results in both cases.

Very odd... what version of WITP are you playing? i am playing 1.806.

1.806 like you.

In fact, im my game (please Emek, don't read), it is Tarawa (Airfield = 6) which is 67% damaged.
So, i sent other fighter group and yestesday, Emek launched an other strike.
Nearly all my fighter took off but now, the airfield (i mean the runway) is 78% damaged.
Hum, 78 very close to 80 but it is still ok so i sent other fighter.
Today, no raids but only a reco which showed a lot of fighter still in CAP.
And my runway, back to 59.

PS: désolé de polluer, Gladiatt

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: rominet

I am playing PBEM against Emek;
the tests were done human against human.
Same results in both cases.

Very odd... what version of WITP are you playing? i am playing 1.806.

1.806 like you.

In fact, im my game (please Emek, don't read), it is Tarawa (Airfield = 6) which is 67% damaged.
So, i sent other fighter group and yestesday, Emek launched an other strike.
Nearly all my fighter took off but now, the airfield (i mean the runway) is 78% damaged.
Hum, 78 very close to 80 but it is still ok so i sent other fighter.
Today, no raids but only a reco which showed a lot of fighter still in CAP.
And my runway, back to 59.

PS: désolé de polluer, Gladiatt

Non,non, pas de problemes; je vais louer des espaces sur mon AAR [:D];

i will hire space on this AAR for comments [:)].

I will try to check on next turn the damages levels of airfield.
From memory,, i was able to fly CAP from Yunan with 60% damage to airfield.
Luang Prabang (jap level 5), can't know: i think it is LRCAPED from Hanoi or Raheng.
Funafuti, jap level 2, no more jap planes after damages above 60% or so.
Gasmata, jap level 2, no more jap planes after damages above 60% or so.
Rabaul, jap level 6, no more japs planes after damages above 75% or so.
Koepang is around 70% (jap level 2), but is LRCAPed from Maumere.

So it could well be the size of airfield taken into acount;
well, simple rule: to bomb until no more plane icon on the base

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

Non,non, pas de problemes; je vais louer des espaces sur mon AAR [:D];

Aie, aie, aie, après les droits d'auteurs, ça va commencer à faire cher.[:D]

[gladiatt]

8th april - 20th april 1943

- on 8th april, japs DD Kiji hit a mine at Tulagi and sink. One less, still 140 to destroy

JAPS ARE COUNTERING MY MOVES

After the seizure of Gasmata, the japs made some moves, wether to prevent me from holding bases, or to try to build new bases to defend Rabaul :
- As soon as 2nd april, Munda in the Solomons fall in the hands of 66th Nav Guard
- on 12th april, 40 4E attack 3 japs DD at Mussau Island. DD Kisaragi is hit by one bomb, DD Asakaze by 2 bombs, but no sign of sinking since.
- 13th april, KAVIENG is captured by fragment of 2nd Parachute Regiment, probably by airdrop.
- 14th april, EMIRAU Isl is captured by another fragment of 2nd Parachute Rgt.
- 15th april, ADMIRALITY Isl is captured by another fragment of 2nd Parachute Rgt.

I tried to slow down any building of theses bases, with raids from Port Moresby from time to time (on Port if Airfield is size 0, overwise it won't attack).
- Munda is bombed 10th april ( 3 ports hits), 15th april ( 5 ports hits), 18th april ( 1 port hit)
- Kavieng is bombed as soon as 14th april by SBD operating from Gasmata; and also by B-24 from Port Moresby on 15th, 16th april
- Admirality Island bombed 18th april by 29 B-24, 2 hits on port. On 19th, a raid score no hits.
- 2 raids on Emirau score no results.

JAPS ATTRIT MY SHIPS WITH AIR STRIKES OR SUBS

My planes on LRCAP cannot be everywhere, thus bettys from Truck or Guadalcanal sometime find an uncovered TF in the Bismark Sea.
- on 8th april , Gasmata, 1 AP and 1 AK are hit (both will sink)
- on 9th april, at Gasmata, 1 AP and 2 AK hit (both will sink trying to reach Port Moresby)
- on 18th april, 1 AK is hit at Lae.
These attack cost the japs 5 bettys.
- on 11th april, a TF crossing the cap of Gili Gili unload by accident a fragment of Seabees at Fergusson Island (just West of Gili Gili) after an AP hit a jap mine.
Same day, SS I-5, west of Port Moresby, sink an AK with a fragment of Aviation Regiment; hunted by australians MSW, it manage to sink MSW Nipigon on 13th april... [:@]
- on 17th april, at Gili Gili, 14 Bettys score 1 bomb hit on an AK but 1 betty is downed by my dutch Brewsters.

- GILI GI/I is captured on 14th april. "Ticket to Ride" is complete
And Lae, empty of troops until now, now host a australian base force and Australian 30th Brigade, and is building.

CENTPAC
- Funafuti is raided 4 times, with a few hits scored on airfield, and 2 bettys destroyed on ground.
Nukufetau is raided 2 times with no particular results.
Nanomea airfield reach level 1 on 14th april. It is out of bomber range.

KB SHOWS BACK

- on 16th april, a japs raid from Guadalcanal targets my subchasers near Luganville: 43 Zeros and 27 Bettys face my 51 fighters. For the losses of 1 Corsair and 2 P-40E, 20 zeros and 4 bettys are destroyed
- on 17th, KB come close to Efate, and strike an AK that unloaded supply in Luganville few days ago. 21 Kate score 8 bombs hits on AK Andrew Furuseth, sinking it.
Same day, 21 Vals alone attack Luganville, all destroyed by my CAP; 2LT Landers, of 49th FG (P-40E) score 4 kills, reaching 18 kills.
Another raid from Guadalcanal gathering 38 zeros and 18 bettys fight my CAP; 1 P-40E is downed for 32 zeros and 3 bettys; and 2nd LT Landers score 4 more kills, downing 8 planes in a day and reaching 22 kills.

Once more my CV are unable to react in time, being too far away, and on 18th, KB withdraw north toward Ponape.

[gladiatt]

And the moves near Luganville with KB

[gladiatt]

NORTH AUSTRALIA 8th APRIL - 20th april 1943

Koepang still keeping this base close

on 8th april, 17 P-38 of 24th FG/B conduct a sweep against 20 japs fighters on LRCAP from Maumere. 5 japs are destroyed for 6 P-38; the raid of bombers didn't flew [:@].

On 10th, the raid face a hard defence: 6 japs are destroyed for 5 P-38 and 1 dutch Mitchell (out of 42), scoring 31 runway hits.
On 11th, 24th FG/B sweep alone, destroying 3 japs fighters for no losses.
On 12th, the bombers raid without cover (lack of coordination). 2 Australians Liberators are destroyed, but 1 hit on airbase and 15 on runway are scored.
On 14th april, jap CAP of 21 fighters tangle with 17 P-38, 7 dutch Brewsters and 48 bombers. 7 japs are destroyed for 5 Brewster, 1 P-38 and 1 B-25; 1LT Posten of 24th FG/B score 4 kills reaching 20. 36 hits are scored on runway.

On 19th april, a sweep by 12 P-38 score nothing.
On 20th april, bombers attack but the escort didn't come. 1 mitchell is lost (out of 41), 2 hits scored on airbase and 15 on runway.
The base of Koepang is nearly 80% damaged.

TENIMBAR & ARU
Between fatigue of crews and weather grounding my planes, japs are able to conduct small raids, straffing my PT Boats or AK.
Tenimbar is targetted by 5 raids gathering 54 sorties of bombers.
Aru is targetted by 9 raids gathering 42 sorties.
The global amount is 3 PT Boat sunk, 3 damaged and 3 AK damaged. 1 zero and 1 sally are destroyed.
The 2 bases are still building but yet unable to host planes. There is only 1 Seabee unit per base.

PHILIPPINES

COTABATO is captured on 16th april by 3500 japanese soldiers from 5 small units (NLF)
Davao is now bombed daily (arond 9 sally at a time) were 101st PA Div has waited since the beginning of the war.

[gladiatt]

CHINA 8th APRIL - 20th APRIL 1943

East of Chungking, the slow agony of 2nd chinese Div : this unit is bombed daily by 200+ japs bombers or fighters training here. It is too far away from my bases to attempt some ambush (like i did sometime in the past).

On 17th april, this unit manage to get close to Chungking but 8 japs unit shut the road leading to rescue on 20th april.


YUNAN
I am absolutely unable to base planes here. The damages inflicted to the airbase are so huge that no repair can be think of, and no raising of forts in the city.
In 12 days, the japs conduct 32 raids gathering 1224 sorties of bombers and 334 of fighters. They score 45 hits on the base, 16 on supply and 681 on runway. The japs loose (from LRCAP of Flak) 15 bombers and 5 fighters for 2 allied fighters.

But the weather ( ) ground several of my missions: 7 sweep could not be conducted and 8 raids.

My forces launched 11 raids gathering 384 sorties of bombers (mostly chinese B-25J) and 50 sorties fighters.
I loose 4 fighters and 18 bombers, destroying 31 japs fighters and causing 800 casualties among japanese ground troops.

On 9th april, 44 B-24 targetted the resources at Kunming: the japs had repaired 35 point since they took the town. I was thinking he was doing this to try to help the deliveries of supply to his front troops, and that i could annoy him. This raid knocked 5 resources points.
But on 10th april, i forget to reset my orders (DOH !) and the second raid gathering 64 B-24 lost 10 planes to the japs CAP for no result.

ON GROUND
The japs launch several deliberate attacks.
- on 12th april, reducing fort to level 5; 9000 japs casualties for 3000 chineses.
- on 16th april; reducing fort to level 4; 8200 japs casualties for 3400 chineses
- on 19th april reducing fort to level 3; 7000 japs casualties for 3000 chineses.

It is now obvious that the fall should not be long....

[gladiatt]

BURMA 8th APRIL - 20th APRIL 43


ANDAMAN
Raided 9 times by my forces, gathering 212 sorties of bombers, with no more jap LRCAP; still keeping the base close

On 18th april, a jap TF of MSW manage to clear several dozen of mines. None of my subs on station dare attack [8|].
Jap ML Aotaka hit a dutch mine and sink.


NIGHT RAIDS

The japs launched 9 raids by night on AKYAB gathering 296 sorties.
My CAP of Beaufighter VIF was reinforced by P-40B, but manage to shoot down only 7 japs bombers for the loss of 4 planes and 4 more on ground.
Chandpur is bombed at night on 8th april.
Dacca is raided at night 3 time, gathering 91 sorties, destroying 2 planes on ground for 1 bomber.

BAY OF BENGAL

On 12th april, 45 bettys in two waves attack my transport at Akyab, without escort. 38 japs bombers are destroyed without scoring a single hit.
On 13th april, 4 bettys attack, none get back home.
On 14th april, 51 zeros and 50 bettys face a CAP of 7 buffalos and 20 P-38 covering an incoming TF near Akyab.
3 buffalos are shot for 23 zeros and 3 bettys. MSW Cuttack is sinked, PG Nigella is on fire.
2nd LT Lacy of 23rd FG/B score 5 kills, reaching 16.


NEW JAP OFFENSIVE

On 14th april, 6 japs divisions (140 000 soldiers, 3000 AV) are attacking along the railroad leading to Mandalay.
On 15th, 80 allied bombers manage to cause 150 casualties among the jap 2nd Div.
Same 15th april, the jap deliberate attack reach 1/1 odd, but unable to repulse me, with 2300 japs casualties for 300 allies.

On 16th, the weather slaughter my bombers [:(] :
2 waves of bombers, gathering 98 planes, fly unescorted in the claws of a CAP of 50 japs fighters. 42 of my planes are destroyed
Despite these losses, my artillery seem more powerful than the japs, causing 500 casualties among the japs.

Between 17th and 18th april, the japs artillery cause 140 allied casualties , while allied artillery cause 800 japs casualties.
As soon as the japs launched their attack, reinforcement are sent from Mandalay
On 19th april, lead by 254th Indian Tank Brigade and 7th Armored Bde, the brits counter attack.
I suffered a setback, 0/1 odd , but causing 2200 japs casualties for 1500 allied.
Now, if i could receive a reinforcement of 200 transport planes to feed in supply my Burmese troops.

[gladiatt]

Take a look at the map:
1) KB is back
2) Rabaul host once again japs ships

[gladiatt]

25 april was busy in Bismark Sea.
Sadly, i lost too many opportunity to strike japs ships: weather stucking my planes on ground ? Heavy CAP above the targets ?
I have no idea of how to danse the rain-dance, to dispell the bad weather [8|].






Note: there are a few things happening elsewhere; Bismark Sea is a main concern now.
The AAR has NO delay to the gameplay (still waiting for my opponant turn).

[gladiatt]

CHINA 21th - 30th april 1943

Yunan
The airfield is bombed daily to ruins by the japs bombers.

On 21th april, a raid is launched against the japs troops by my chineses bombers squadrons with Corsairs of VMO 251 on escort.
14 Jack and 4 Tojo on CAP fight 15 F4U; 3 japs are downed for 2 Corsais and 1 B-25J.

On 22th, 2 scattered raids of B-17 without escort loose 5 planes above Yunan.
But on 23th,24th and 25th, bad weather prevent my raids to attack the japs troops. In the same time, the japs planes are able to conduct many strikes against the airfield and my troops.
I am DOOMED , doomed i tell you !!!
The perpetual thunderstorm above India have probably shortened my resistance in Yunan [:(] :

Ground combat
On 22th april, in the moutains north of Yunan, a jap shock attack is triggered by a brigade crossing the Yangtze, to reinforce the one already there with a mongol cav div. The attack fail to dislodge my troops.
On 23th april, the japs launch their 43 units to attack Yunan. A deliberate attack reach odd 1/1, reducing fort to level 2 and causing 4300 japs casualties for 4300 chineses;
On 25th april, another attack reach 2/1, bring fort to level 1, causing 5000 japs casualties to 3600 chinese.
And another attack on 26th, shock one, reach odd 9/1 and CAPTURE YUNAN with 3000 chinese casualties and 5000 japs.

By luck, no chinese unit surrender, the whole shattered army retreating along the Burma road toward Lashio.

Isolated and reduced to roughly 200 squads, 3 corps and 1 HQ are bombed relentlessly by the japs, now unable to each Yunan.

North of Yunan, the japs managed in 2 days (27th and 28th april) to repulse the 3 warbands that were keeping the north flank of Yunan.

THE BATTLE LASTED ONLY 2 MONTHS, TOO QUICKLY TO MY TASTE

Pursuit
On 28th april, 3 japs divisions (including Imperial Gd) crossed the Yangtze , pursuing my troops along the Burma Road (now closed).
The shock attack fail, with 2700 japs casualties for 400 chinese.

After the fall of the town, the airbase is repaired in almost 2 days, and host japs planes.
But still, weather prevent me to raid freely the japs.
At least, on 29th, a small sweep of 15 P-38 from AVG/B tangle with 30 japs fighters, downing 3 for 2 Lightning. But no bomber raid [:@].
On 30th, still no raid.

I HATE THIS WEATHER, I REALLY HATE THIS WEATHER, I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE WEATHER OF PTO


East of Chungking
Chinese 2nd Div is cornered before to reach the capital city, and forced to SURRENDER

Chungking
Since a few days, Zeros on LRCAP above the town intercepted a few dutch Dakotas flying supplys in it.
On 24th april, a sweep of 12 chinese P-40N destroy 3 zeros for 1 Curtiss.

[gladiatt]

BURMA 21th April - 30th April 1943

24th april on Irrawaddy front , my british troops launch a deliberate attack wich fail at 0/1 odd with 600 japs casualties for 500 allied.

Another attack on 29th april with only 2 armored brigades (254th Indian Tk and 7th british Armored) fail at 0/1 with 500 casualties on each side. There are no more japs attacks !
The land bombardement of the japs caused 830 allied casualties in 9 days, while the allied bombardement cause 3500 japs casualties in 7 days (minus the 2 attacks).

RAID ON RANGOON

On 27th april, after 4 days to prepare, my airforces launch a strike on Rangoon, and with luck , both waves schedulded get to attack, in the right order.
- First wave , 108 fighters and 193 bombers face a CAP of 87 japs fighters.
13 allied fighters are shot down, but no bombers are hit, and the japs losses are high : 16 Jack, 55 Tony and 29 bombers destroyed on ground.
- A second waves of 110 4E unescorted have to face only 2 japs fighters, suffer no losses and destroy 36 planes on ground.
The amount of damages on Rangoon airfield ( 60 hits on airbase, 184 on runway, 6 on Port and 5 on supply) raise the level of damages from 0% to 56% on this size 8 airfield.

On 28th, my 2 waves of bombers attack. 2 Corsairs are destroyed for an amount of 82 japs planes on ground. The airbase suffer 15 hits, the runway 160.

And then, WEATHER ONCE AGAIN TRICK ME :
No raid occured against Rangoon on 29th and 30th april, allowing the japs to start repairing the base [:@].

On 29th, i made a mistake, trying to cause the same fate to Moulmein.
26 B-24 are lost in the clouds, 25 B-17 and Liberators attack Moulmein, against a CAP of 100 japs fighters....
15 planes are lost.
The sweep only came after [8|]. 10 P-40B and 45 P-38 . 29 are destroyed by the japs CAP, wich loose 25 meatball fighters.

On 30th, a new sweep on Rangoon bag 9 japs fighters for 3 allied.
Global tally of these raids: 47 allied planes (OUCH) for 252 japs ( WAHOW [X(] )


ANDAMAN

Raided 5 times, 2 zeros are downed by my liberators for no direct losses, several Nick damaged.
But the japs have, maybe bring more engineers in the place (one barge hitting a mine and sinking with 87 casualties on 26th april), because the damages on the base are quickly repaired.
In the previous weeks, the airfield never get under 70% of damages, and at the end of this week, it was near 10%.
I won't like to have a fully operationnal base here.

[gladiatt]

raid on Moulmein