Bob

[BrucePowers]

How many aircraft were routinely based at Pearl Harbor during the war (I would think quite high)?

Also, I would think the number of planes based within 60 miles of Tokyo was also quite high,

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

On airfield overstacking - it is something that I have always disliked, but I can see the occasion where it might be necessary. The game allows only 50 a/c per airfield level, I allow myself to overstack up to 50 more per level (i.e., 100 a/c can be at a level 1, 300 at a level 5, etc.)for short periods of time (I don't do it for longer because I don't like the way it leaves too many damaged a/c at the base). This allows the occasional need for an extreme effort, but prevents the gamey overcrowding that some of you have seen.

This has sort of been my point... but i will do what the majority says... [&o]

Isn't the performance of air units in bases with units in excess of the base capacity negatively impacted? Also, aren't air bases with really dense air unit populations likely to take much higher rates of air unit damage and destruction if subjected to bombardment or bombing attacks? I'm a noob, so you guys I'm sure know better than me; but I had the sense that trying to run too many air units out of a too small base already had these intrinsic "double edges" to the sword so to speak.

Also, the op losses, and rate of repair will be impacted somewhat by base size (no matter how many Av Eng in the base eh?), and thus, I would _think_ (and please do correct me if I'm wrong on this) that basing way too many air units in a base could pretty quickly result in accelerated loss of air resources?

I'm just about to begin a PBEM with a buddy of mine, so maybe I'll start to understand the reasons for all the various house rules once we play a bit. But having played only the AI a bit, I'm puzzled what the rationale for all the house rules are. But then that is a very complex question, and I don't want to derail your thread [:)]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

OK - voting to date (subject to mood swings and excessive alcohol consumption):

1. Sub Commando Raids Allowed?
Faber - YES
Niceguy - NO
Speedy - NO
Bruce - YES
Mike - NO
RT - YES

2. PT Rule (no more than 12/hex)
Faber - YES
Niceguy - YES?
Speedy - YES
Bruce - YES - but prefers alternate rule
Mike - YES
RT - YES

3, Night Bombing Rule (CITY bombing allowed, other (stationary) targets - UNLIMITED night trained units, and up to 24 non-night-trained aircraft (trying to adjust to this number)
Faber - YES
Niceguy - YES
Speedy - ?
Bruce - YES
Mike - YES
RT - YES

4. Naval Bombardment - only if your troops in hex, or if in preparation for a landing.
Faber - YES
Niceguy - NO
Speedy - YES, but... how far in advance prior to landing?
Bruce - ?
Mike - YES
RT - YES

5. AKs not allowed to move troops (except as Last Gasp)
Faber - YES
Niceguy - ?
Speedy - NO - not doable in 44...
Bruce - YES, but Allied evac allowed.
Mike - YES - except for tank/arty and any units starting the game in AKs for their first invasion
RT - YES, but Allied evac allowed.

6. Units Limited to HQ Area
Faber - ?
Niceguy - YES, except on defence
Speedy - ?
Bruce - ?
Mike - YES
RT - YES, except on defence

My 2 yen. [:D]

[fabertong]

Hi Mike....what's your e-mail........you, me and Bruce need to discuss Jap command structure......and then stategy......in private of course..............mine is fabertong@hotmail.com......

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

OK - this is just to get this down to the end of the thread... i will not correct the one above any more, but just this one...

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

OK - voting to date (subject to mood swings and excessive alcohol consumption):

7. No 4E Bombing of Shipping
Faber - ?
Niceguy - NO - maybe altitude restrictions
Speedy - YES
Bruce - NO - maybe altitude restriction
Mike - NO
RT - NO - allow from 12K feet or better, or at 100 feet.

8. Land on Base Hexes only??
Faber - ?
Niceguy - YES
Speedy - YES
Bruce - ?
Mike - YES
RT - YES


9. Aircraft limit per level of airfield
Faber - 50 - 100
Niceguy - 50, Staggered schedule OK
Speedy - Staggered schedule
Bruce - Staggered schedule
Mike - ?
RT - 100 (EXCLUDE SEAPLANES)

10. TWO day turns
Faber - ?
Niceguy - YES
Speedy - NO
Bruce - NO
Mike - NO
RT - NO

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

OK - i've also added Speedy's No 4E AC bombing of shipping proposal...

i vote NO as this did happen (a lot) in the actual war with a lot of damage. Alas, this mainly occured at night, but also during the day (with sinkings).

We can't bomb at night, so i say we should be able to bomb during the day - let's limit the altitude to either >12K feet or at 100 feet (Allied skip bombing was first done by B-17s.) i'd be willing to forgo the 100 feet if that will make a difference.

This is ok by me.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Morning guys[:)]

I'd rather not go for 2 day turns in this. I have a game going against Nik and while I like it very much I prefer the greater management ability of 1 day turns.

AF limits - how about 50 per level up until level 7 (B29 operable) where it become 100 per level from then on. E.G.

AF 4 = 200 planes

AF 6 = 300 planes

AF 7 = 700 planes

AF 10 = unlimited?

Just a thought guys?

This looks fine by me...I've never played past about 6/43 so I don't know what to expect. I think the important thing is not to allow 100 to 200 planes on a size 1 field.

That is okay by me.

Fine with me too.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Sokay - AB's instructions were pretty thorough... i have it installed now - you DO have to install the AB Standard Map, then AB Extended Map. When the batch file asks to backup your regular art files, do it or else it aborts some key steps.

If you load everything and fire it up and it looks wonky, run the ModSelect utility - select (iirc) option 5 (Both CHS art and CHS extended map) - and it should look OK.

Ok, for a total computer non-weenie like me, what do I download?

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I'm not part of this, but I'd like to comment on a couple of house rules here.

Why allow only allied evacuations with AKs? Shouldn't this apply to both sides?

On airfield overstacking - it is something that I have always disliked, but I can see the occasion where it might be necessary. The game allows only 50 a/c per airfield level, I allow myself to overstack up to 50 more per level (i.e., 100 a/c can be at a level 1, 300 at a level 5, etc.)for short periods of time (I don't do it for longer because I don't like the way it leaves too many damaged a/c at the base). This allows the occasional need for an extreme effort, but prevents the gamey overcrowding that some of you have seen.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that you guys switch to my way of thinking, but only wanted to throw out those thoughts for future contemplation...

How about 50*(Airfield level + 1) ?

[Nikademus]

You guys should do a 3x3 with 3 day turns.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: fabertong

Hi Mike....what's your e-mail........you, me and Bruce need to discuss Jap command structure......and then stategy......in private of course..............mine is fabertong@hotmail.com......

Faber, I sent you an email.

[Mike Solli]

Something else that comes to mind:
 
 
Allies - conversion of 2E bomber squadrons to 4E bomber squadrons.  I vote no.
 
 Japanese - conversion of light daitai/chutai to medium (Sally/Helen) daitai/chutai.  I vote no.

[Mike Solli]

I just read Faber's AAR. [X(]   900+ Allied CAP!  Has there been some thought on aircraft limits in a sea hex?

[scott64]

I vote for everything goes, including the kitchen sink. [:D][:'(]

[rtrapasso]

OK - Once again, this is just to get this down to the end of the thread... i will not correct the one above any more, but just this one...

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

OK - voting to date (subject to mood swings and excessive alcohol consumption):

1. Sub Commando Raids Allowed? DEADLOCK
Faber - YES
Niceguy - NO
Speedy - NO
Bruce - YES
Mike - NO
RT - YES

2. PT Rule (no more than 12/hex) PASSED
Faber - YES
Niceguy - YES?
Speedy - YES
Bruce - YES - but prefers alternate rule
Mike - YES
RT - YES

3. Night Bombing Rule (CITY bombing allowed, other (stationary) targets - UNLIMITED night trained units, and up to 24 non-night-trained aircraft (trying to adjust to this number)* PASSED
Faber - YES
Niceguy - YES
Speedy - YES
Bruce - YES
Mike - YES
RT - YES
*As a clarification - this means you try to get no more than 24 of your non-night a/c to attack, but since you never know how many are going to fly on a mission, this becomes problematic - so you just shoot for the target of 24. You might exceed this on occasion, but then you adjust.

4. Naval Bombardment - only if your troops in hex, or if in preparation for a landing.
PASSED
Faber - YES
Niceguy - NO
Speedy - YES, but... how far in advance prior to landing?
Bruce - ?
Mike - YES
RT - YES

5. AKs not allowed to move troops (except as Last Gasp) - PROPOSAL DROPPED
Faber - NO
Niceguy - NO - but no invasions in AKs
Speedy - NO - not doable in 44... but OK if Jan 1 44 expiration
Bruce - YES, but Allied evac allowed.
Mike - YES, with exceptions, but proposal has been dropped
RT - NO - alternate rule possible (No AKs for invasion except armor)

6. Units Limited to HQ Area -
Faber - ?
Niceguy - YES, except on defence?
Speedy - YES
Bruce - YES, except on defence
Mike - YES
RT - YES, except on defence

7. No 4E Bombing of Shipping - Proposal as it currently stands is defeated - do we need an altitude rule??
Faber - ?
Niceguy - NO - maybe altitude restrictions
Speedy - YES
Bruce - NO - maybe altitude restriction
Mike - NO
RT - NO - allow from 12K feet or better, or at 100 feet.

8. Land on Base Hexes only?? PASSED
Faber - ?
Niceguy - YES
Speedy - YES
Bruce - ?
Mike - YES
RT - YES


9. Aircraft limit per level of airfield - i think we need to ask for Mike's proposal as a "common ground" proposal.Faber - 50 - 100, exclude Seaplanes
Niceguy - 50, Staggered schedule OK, exclude seaplanes
Speedy - Staggered schedule
Bruce - up to 100 at level 1 (EXCLUDE SEAPLANES), otherwise staggered schedule
Mike - 50 + 50 per airfield level
RT - up to 100 at level 1 (EXCLUDE SEAPLANES), otherwise staggered schedule

10. TWO day turns - DEFEATED
Faber - NO
Niceguy - YES
Speedy - NO
Bruce - NO
Mike - NO
RT - NO

EDIT: NEW PROPOSAL ADDED: (i am bundling these)
11. Allies - conversion of 2E bomber squadrons to 4E bomber squadrons.
Japanese - conversion of light daitai/chutai to medium (Sally/Helen) daitai/chutai.
Faber - NO
Niceguy - NO?, but allow balanced swaps
Speedy - ?
Bruce - ?
Mike - NO
RT - NO, but i am still thinking on this

OK - i think i am up to day on the current proposals... (for now)

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I just read Faber's AAR. [X(]   900+ Allied CAP!  Has there been some thought on aircraft limits in a sea hex?

From what i have read about CHS/NikMod - this might not be the problem it seems- the CHS limits aircraft production (i think) and NikMod allows for CAP leakers.

After reading the Lundstrom series and seeing how poorly CAP usually performed on intercepts, i've come to the conclusion that MegaCAP is a Mega game design flaw.

[Mike Solli]

Hey Robert, did you ever expect our little discussion to turn into this? [:D]

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Sokay - AB's instructions were pretty thorough... i have it installed now - you DO have to install the AB Standard Map, then AB Extended Map. When the batch file asks to backup your regular art files, do it or else it aborts some key steps.

If you load everything and fire it up and it looks wonky, run the ModSelect utility - select (iirc) option 5 (Both CHS art and CHS extended map) - and it should look OK.

Ok, for a total computer non-weenie like me, what do I download?

Go to http://www.bur.st/~akbrown/witp/CHS_download.html
follow directions carefully

Running the install batch files will patch the game in the folder \Matrix Games\War in the Pacific\

IF you want a second install, create another folder, and copy all the contents of the \Matrix Games\War in the Pacific\ folder into it.

i would then recommend following the directions for the SINGLE installation (pretty much the same but the second install is already done) - There is a slight but important difference in the single installation directions: it will make sure you run the proper selection program (which you will otherwise might miss) - Also, when it asks you to back up your various maps and art files, say YES (even though you already have them copied to a different file). If you say no, the installation process ceases and you can have problems (well, i did.)

Once you are done, you can rename folders, etc. and create a separate shortcut.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I just read Faber's AAR. [X(]   900+ Allied CAP!  Has there been some thought on aircraft limits in a sea hex?

From what i have read about CHS/NikMod - this might not be the problem it seems- the CHS limits aircraft production (i think) and NikMod allows for CAP leakers.

After reading the Lundstrom series and seeing how poorly CAP usually performed on intercepts, i've come to the conclusion that MegaCAP is a Mega game design flaw.

Yeah, that sounds right. Nik did talk about aircraft production. He cut it way back. If you want to increase it, it'll cost. I'm looking forward to cracking production in this. Should be interesting.

[Nikademus]

NM does....but you might want to consider a TF/hex rule anyway same as with airfield cap limits. As it stands right now there's no limitaiton on area CAP for a single hex so you can have 10 air TF's in the same hex and all that accumulated CAP will be available to attack you no matter which specific TF gets targeted. The only 'con' to this tactic is that a single cloud can really ruin your day if you trying to cover an amphibious assault (unless it too....is in the same hex) The only other rule that discourages this is the 50% rule if in a port hex.

Of course there's nothing to stop a player from putting every CV/CVL in one single TF either.