VMB 433 was one of eight PBJ equipped VBM units deployed to the PTO. All of their pilots were extensively trained in torpedo bombing. In 1945, VMB 621, 622, 623, and 624 swapped out their PBJs for TBMs. Clearly from 1942 through the end of the war, USMC B-25 drivers were trained in torpedo bombing
And of the eight units, seven saw combat. The last unit, VMB-614 arrived in theater too late.
"...extensively trained in torpedo bombing."
Uh, no. Units received very rudimentary torpedo training at either Boca Chica, Fla or San Diego, but not both. Training lasted up to two weeks at Boca Chica and was one week long at San Diego. Training consisted mostly of lectures with a few orientation flights. 2000lb concrete shapes were used at both stations to simulate torpedoes. Only one unit, VMB-433 actually dropped live exercise torpedos. Interestingly enough, it is the only unit to have a torpedo on its patch. It was designed by one of its officers, Malcolm L. McGuckin. Even more interestingly, you chose to use this patch to bolster your arguments that PBJ units should be torpedo equipped. Pretty thin thread if you ask me. But the most telling part is that not one PBJ equipped VMB unit ever carried a torpedo outside of the US. And not one received any additional torpedo training at anytime, anywhere.
"In 1945, VMB 621, 622, 623, and 624 swapped out their PBJs for TBMs."
True enough but not quite the whole truth now, is it?. Of course, you failed to mention that these squadrons were never assigned to the Pacific, never trained in torpedo tactics and that they never left the US. The sole reason for the conversion was that the Marine Corps wanted a carrier-capable bomber for close air support. The TBM, with its large bombbay, was perfect. These units were to serve aboard CVEs in that role for the expected invasion of Japan. MGEN Vandergrift came up with the idea in July 44.
"Clearly from 1942 through the end of the war, USMC B-25 drivers were trained in torpedo bombing"
Clearly, USMC B-25 drivers were NOT trained in torpedo bombing in 1942 as the first USMC B-25 unit, VMB-413, wasn't commisioned until 3/1/43. And VMB-413 didn't complete their training until Dec 43 and deployed to the Pacific in Jan 44. And of course, these were PBJs if you want to get technical, not B-25s. And just as clearly, there wasn't any VMB torpedo training in 1945 as the last VMB unit to conduct any torpedo training finished training in 1944.
Another point to make here is that only the PBJ-1C/D models were actually capable of deploying torpedoes. The PBJ-1H/J models were too heavy and had considerable center of gravity problems when loaded with their airborne radar suites, HVAR rocket installations and 75mm cannon provisions. Most H model and all J models had their torpedo shackles removed in the field to save weight. One of the VMB squadron webpages has an extensive list of field modifications that were made to reduce weight.
Another point to consider is that these units usually flew from Marine Corps bases and these did not have maintenance or storage facilites for torpedoes. And last, let's not forget that USMC ordnance personnel were not trained in torpedo maintenance. In addition, the US Navy was increasingly equipping its Avengers with bombs rather than torpedoes due to the lack of suitable targets. Put it all together and the picture is rather dismal for supporting your assertion that USMC pilots were extensively trained in torpedo bombing.
You have an interesting point of view to dismiss USMC standard doctrine and training from 1941-1945, photos of torp armed B-25s, and four dedicated VBM torpedo bomber units as "whimsy."
So torpedo training was USMC standard doctrine and training in 1941 and 1942? Now that's whimsical! No mean feat when you consider that the Marines didn't have any torpedo squadrons during those years! And the picture you presented is that of a VMB-433 aircraft at Boca Chica during torpedo training. But the most telling part is that not one PBJ equipped VMB unit ever carried, let alone dropped, a torpedo outside of the US. And not one unit received any additional torpedo training at anytime, anywhere.
Your cognitive failure here seems to be that you find it beyond imagining that USMC PBJ units might, under different circumstances, have actually done that which they were extensively trained to do. I'm not sure that a consim that allows any deviation from an exact replication of history is what you're looking for. Perhaps you should read some books instead. It's clear you've got a lot of historical cathing up to do.
And your cognitive failure is that you fail to recognize that VMB units were not "extensively" trained in torpedo use. They had no supporting infrastructure, no stock piles of torpedoes, no trained torpedomen and crews who received at most 2 weeks classroom and flight training.
And I am sure that you will never play this consim. What was the sum of your WitP experience again? Oh yeah, you "borrowed" a copy of a very early version and played against the Ai until May 42. When was that again? 4 or 5 years ago? I forget. Something like that.
And perhaps you should go back and reread those websites instead. It's clear that you are the one that has some historical "cathing" up to do.
One last question... why do you care so much about a game you won't buy and don't play?
To those that own the game... there is an editor. If you feel that torpedo-equipped PBJs should be in the game, the means to include them is at your disposal.
If I have offended any by this post, I apologize. I just get real tired of this continual "bull-in-the-china-shop" routine.
Chez
