Accuracy ... % Chance or Shot Dispersion?

[Mraah]

Gentlemen,

I believe I've discovered how the accuracy works ... Basically, it's shot dispersion ... ie your aim is the center of the shot and other factors (like stance, gun maxrange, gun dispersion factor, etc) changes the center location of the shot ... or in other words, causes the round to drift off-center.

I was doing some digging around the XML's and it seems the "beef @ potatoes" of this game is located in the BASIS/SCRIPTS/LOGIC folder ....

One file, called CONSTANTS has a bit of info in it that I was translating the descriptions (I'll show a snipet at the bottom of post of some values).

Anyway ... This is my preliminary findings ... and working on a theory.

You can't be told "what % chance does the shot have" ... however, they could use the AIM GURU 5000 to show you what your "dispersion" would look like. In other words, the cone of dispersion can either increase or decrease in size giving you an estimate as to how much "drift" the shot would be if you pulled the trigger at that moment.

For instance, look at my screen shot below showing the AIM GURU 5000 .... You can see the area of dispersion as indicated by the "lighter" area around your sight. Now, currently the AIM GURU doesn't have a dynamic cone of dispersion but I'm trying to explain whats going on so I'm using this as a demonstration.

As you can see, by aiming at the TORSO your dispersion will cover most of the target, which means any "drift" of the shot will more than likely hit another body part. Have you ever aimed at the torso and gotten a head shot??? The other shot locations cover less of an area of the target so any "drift" would actually miss the target altogether.

So, as in real life, you are aiming at a target that has a dynamic surface area ... In other words, if the target was facing side-ways to you then you would have less surface area to hit , thus, less chance to hit. Also, if the target was prone and facing you on a flat surface then this presents the smallest surface area to hit ... aiming at the torso would more than likely hit the head or arms first.

Anyway ... Am I making sense?

This is why you can target the enemy when it showing "grey" or "red" ... you are targeting a location and not a specific person.

If you want to experiment with dispersion then you can practice shooting at a solid wall ... you will notice the shot doesn't always hit the exact loaction you fired at. This is best done with a pistol for a demonstation of shot dispersal.

Ok ... now for a snipet into some data I found in the CONSTANTS xml (I'm not done with all of it but you guys get the idea) ;
--- It appears the distances are measured in meters.
--- You can see that night ops is 50% daylight ops ... day=100m , night=50m
--- note the camoflague coef for posture

-------------------------------------

<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">sight_radius</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">100</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">The maximum radius in the ideal conditions for the detection of the enemy</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">day_coef</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">1.0</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String"The coefficient of detection for full-time operation</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">night_coef</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">0.5</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">The coefficient for the detection of night operations</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">pose_lay</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">0.30</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">bonus to camouflage lying</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">pose_crouch</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">0.15</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">bonus to camouflage sitting</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">pose_stay</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">0</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">bonus to camouflage standing</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">activity_stay</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">1</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">The coefficient of detection still</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">activity_run</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">1.2</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">The coefficient of detection of moving</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">shock_wave_speed</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">343.0</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">The speed of wave damage, m / s</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">visibility_time_out</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">2</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">The disappearance of the character of sight in seconds</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">audibility_refresh_time</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">1</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String"> Time clarify the position of the character of sound </Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">audibility_time_out</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">3</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">The disappearance of presonazha hearing in seconds</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">shot_to_point_time_out</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">0</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">Waiting for the possibility of firing at a point in sekunah</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">prone_loudness</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">0.6</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">noise ratio when driving lie</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">sit_loudness</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">0.8</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">noise factor in the movement sitting</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">stand_loudness</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">1.0</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">noise ratio when driving in standing</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">run_modifier</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">1.2</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">modifier noise while driving double</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">sound_speed</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">343.0</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">the speed of sound m / s</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">tooltip_bgcolor</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">0xAA000000</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">the background color of the cursor tultipa</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">grenade_max_distance</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">30.0</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">Maximum throw grenades in meters</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">grenade_dispersion</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">8</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">scatter factor grenades</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">far_shooting</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">125</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">distance which is considered that the shot is in meters</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">middle_tired</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">1500</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">Tired medium (stamina)</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">heavy_tired</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">100</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">Tired badly (stamina)</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">lazy_time</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">30</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">How much time should elapse without an order of events for the Lazy, seconds</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">medium_wound</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">45</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">100 - well from 99 to the value - slightly injured, from this to heavy_wound secondary injury</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">heavy_wound</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">25</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">heavy_wound to critical_wound - serious injury</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">critical_wound</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">15</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">critical_wound to 0 - critically injured</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">critical_wound_period</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">50</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">each specified time period was 1 in the critical injury of health, seconds</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">stamina_down_hit</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">100</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">reduction of forces in the stock hit in the body</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">stamina_down_armor</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">200</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">reduction of forces in the stock hit in flak jacket</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">accuracy_mod</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">1.2</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">factor for the accuracy of the characters (less than 1 increases the accuracy and decreases of more than 1)</Data></Cell>
</Row>
<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">weapon_accuracy_mod</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">1</Data></Cell>
<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">factor in the angle of dispersion of weapons (less than 1 increases the accuracy and decreases of more than 1)</Data></Cell>
</Row>

------------------------------

Hope this helps explain what's going on behind the scenes,

Rob

[Mraah]

Here are some of my other observations about LOS, accuracy, etc.

The game engine appears to do an LOS check everytime you click on your merc ... most obvious is when you change your stance. Sometime the enemy will turn from grey to red ... but most of the time it will not change from red to grey ... kinda buggy. I've been able to take very long shots with an SVD at grey'd out enemies ... This feature was in JA2 as well as in Brigade E5, btw.

As far as whether you have a clear shot or not ... I let my merc tell me. If they can't take the shot then believe him/her. I usually change mercs to reset the LOS and then go back to the original merc and see if shooting at another body location results in them telling me they can't take the shot. If you don't switch mercs and they tell you they can't take the shot, and then you try a different body location, sometimes they won't tell you they can't take that shot because they told you that earlier!

And .. YES, it's hard to tell LOS with slopes etc. I found that changing the camers max_angle, max_height, min_angle and min_height helps me move the camera "further" than the default values. Also, changing the cameras FOV helps.

Anyway ... most of these observations are common knowledge on this thread ... I hope.

Sorry to bore you if you already "been-there-and-done-that", [>:]

Rob

[Sinjen]

Often when aiming at legs, I get the "no line of sight".&nbsp;&nbsp; If I either stand up or target torso, often the merc seems to gain the line of sight.&nbsp; Standing seems to make you the most vulnerable to gunfire and explosions, therefore I always try to end every turn either crouched or prone.

[Hard Sarge]

I don't think that is the intention of the artwork, it is not showing a drift pattern, it is trying to show what you would see if you were looking though a scope (reason for the crosshairs ?)

plus if it is drift, they need to work on the math some more, too many times, I have shot at the leg and blew the guys head off, or aim at the head and taken his legs out from under him

hopefully you can find something that can help from those files

(not totally true, but close when trying to explain)

a normal, decent rifle, has what is called MOA for Acc, that is minute of angle, most rifles can hold a 1 inch MOA, meaning they can put 5 aimmed rounds with in a Inch circle (think that was at 100 yards) which MOA expands as you get farther out, so you should be able to place 5 rounds into a 3 inch circle at 300 yards

my two hunting rifles have a 1/4 MOA, I can put 5 rounds into 1/4 of a inch circle at 100 yards

so something is off if I were to aim at a guys leg and hit him in the head (key word here is aimmed)

[Reinforce]

There's 2 values in Constants that effect your ability to hit anything along with 3 in the weapons table. All of them have to do with weapon movement and personal ability to shoot. Dispersion however seems to be the big one. Every weapon has it, Take the HK USP pistol it's got a Dispersion score of 0.0065 where as your sniper rifles for the most part are sitting at 0.0001

Now oddly the way this game works for almost everything is the closer you are to 1 or 0 depends on what we're talking about, the better. For dispersion If you set the dispersion on the weapon to 5 good luck hitting anything. Set it to 0 and you got yourself a laser guided bomb. Well kinda, dosn't make it a super weapon but it does make it more likely to hit. So basicly the farther the number is from the 0 the better. So a weapon like the USP with an Disp of 0.0065 has a worse acc then a Truvelo that has a Disp of 0.0001 if I added another weapon into the game with an Disp of 0.00001 that would be better then the Truvelo simple becouse your getting a smaller number closer to 0. However the amount this effects your ability to hit isn't a huge amount even at 0 with max aim you'll still miss as there's still range and your Avatars shooting ACC score to take into account.

However knowing what the dispersions is would make it easier to set up some kinda cone thing on the AIM Guru but that's beyond me as I've been looking for a way to display your ability to hit now for afew days and keep comeing to dead ends.

Oh and Dispersion is commented on as "Angle error in radians" Go google translate.

Anyways I hope this helps you all abit.

Much love,
Reinforce

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: Reinforce

There's 2 values in Constants that effect your ability to hit anything along with 3 in the weapons table.

Reinforce,

Thanks for investigating where and what this all does ... much appreciate it.

When you have a moment ... so we're on the same wavelength ...

1) What are the names of the 2 values in Constants?
2) What are the names of the 3 values in the weapons table?

I like to tweak a few things to get an idea and knowing what-is-what helps.

Thanks,
Rob

[Reinforce]

In Constants there's Accuracy Mod and Weapon Accuracy mod. Both of these numbers are a 1 average. The higher the number is the worse the score. So 1.1 is worse then 0.9 for instance.
&nbsp;
In the Weapon tables there's Dispersion, Recoil h and Recoil w. These 3 Values are a 0 is the best. If you set it to 1 you'll get very poor Accuracy as I said befor 0.0001 is better then 0.0065 becouse the closer you get to a true 0 for any of these values the better.
&nbsp;
So to Recap Constants is best set to 1 and the values in the weapons file are best set to 0. However keep in mind please there is still afew other things that effect your ability to hit such as range, Positon, If you've used your Aim points or not. There is also a min max value from what I've seen to hit, I figured it's around 90-95% to hit so there's always a chance to miss no matter how good your score is. So even if you set these values to 1 and 0 respectfuly don't expect super weapons you'll still miss.
&nbsp;
Much Love,
Reinforce

[SlickWilhelm]

This discussion on accuracy is interesting, gents. But are we(and the developers) assuming that all the shooting is at non-moving targets? In a turn-based game engine, surely there is some modifier to reflect the fact that combat involves shooting at moving targets, and not some stationary target all the time?

[Hard Sarge]

you know this is the one area that really needs to be worked on

really getting tired of being told, I don't see him, and then put 3 rounds dead center into the target

you can see, the LOS is good, but the Trooper can't

Current battle, just killed 3 targets that "couldn't" be seen

and of course, missed 2 that could be seen, never got the round close

really, don't tell me I can see something I can't see, and don't tell me I can't see something standing right in front of me

[Hard Sarge]

make that 6 killed that I could see, and 4 that I couldn't hit that I could see (IE either get the spotted but can't see the target, or can see, but the bullets are not on the map when fired)

(really though, am happy with the first round of combat, 6 killed and a few others knocked down or hurting, is a pretty good round, nice ambush

too the good, had a nice one last night, hit a guy in the chest with a MG, picked him up and pinned him to a tree, while the rest of the burst, hammered him, very nice effect, ahhh, a 10 round burst, into the chest, he didn't last long

also see a bad guy, jump out of a window, never seen that before

[Hard Sarge]

okay to carry on, hit 5 more that I "couldn't" see

missed 3 that I "could" see

had one, that I could see, but get the report that I can't see him, and then force the shot, and score a 3 round burst into his chest

scored 2 hits on targets I could see

[Hard Sarge]

2 more kills that I couldn't see, only 2 hits on ones, I could see, all of the rest were misses

again, have one that I could see the target, then get told, I can't see it, only to put 2 out of 3 rounds onto the target

[Hard Sarge]

2 more hit that I can't see, 2 that I can see, then get message I can't see, hit, and 6 I can see, that didn't come close to

getting hammered by these guys I can see but can't target, they can see me and hit me, but I can't return the favor

[Mraah]

HS,

When you say you hit them when you can't see them ... Do you mean their icon is grey? I've noticed that the ability to see someone is based on the gun sight that the weapon is equiped with. For instance, a scoped rifle will change the enemy icon to red whilst an iron sight weapon will show grey for the same enemy.

And, regarding the grey/red change ... It is buggy, and doesn't reflect a change once it's turned red. A good example is going from prone to a standing position. It will turn an eenemy red but "may not" return it back to grey if you return to prone.

Sighting appears to be very dynamic too. Most notably in real-time mode. I was using one of mercs for target practice and when he died he vanished out-of-los. As I approached his body it finally came into view, then I layed down prone and it vanished... got back up, he reappeared.

Other cases are when I target an enemy in the legs ... says I can't hit him ... I reset by choosing another merc, go back to other merc and target the enmies head. Sometime the merc will shift a bit or lean left/right and I think that this small change in LOS maybe enough to block LOS when the merc finally takes the shot.

A very good example of this is watching the enemy ... Have you ever seen the enemy stand up, then crouch, stand up and again, then move a bit left, then crouch again ... only to end the turn out of AP ? These small changes in LOS are so minute that it's very hard to tell what part of the body is blocked and what part of the body isn't.

And, finally, the worse case scenario for LOS I've seen so far is at the train station ... your merc can see the enemy behind the train because he see's their legs, or feet but can't take the shot.

Anyway ... [;)] ... I'm with ya on what you've posted ... That's why I went to a better FOV dispite going underground at times.

Rob

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: Reinforce

In Constants there's Accuracy Mod and Weapon Accuracy mod. Both of these numbers are a 1 average. The higher the number is the worse the score. So 1.1 is worse then 0.9 for instance.

In the Weapon tables there's Dispersion, Recoil h and Recoil w. These 3 Values are a 0 is the best. If you set it to 1 you'll get very poor Accuracy as I said befor 0.0001 is better then 0.0065 becouse the closer you get to a true 0 for any of these values the better.

So to Recap Constants is best set to 1 and the values in the weapons file are best set to 0. However keep in mind please there is still afew other things that effect your ability to hit such as range, Positon, If you've used your Aim points or not. There is also a min max value from what I've seen to hit, I figured it's around 90-95% to hit so there's always a chance to miss no matter how good your score is. So even if you set these values to 1 and 0 respectfuly don't expect super weapons you'll still miss.

Reinforce,

Gotcha .. thanks. I've found the "recoil h and w" interesting ... doesn't take much to make a large change.

I've been running some "target practice" tests at the airport using the back wall of the big hanger as my test wall. I'll post some notes about them later on. I described whats happening to a friend that has fired most of the weapons in RF ... ie M60, RPK, AK74, M16, etc and it all seems accurate as far as the effect of dispersion. My question to myself would be how bad the recoil is on the AKM ... punch the numbers in and it spits out the effect. One weapon I need to retest is the AK74 ... my friend says this weapon hums ... ie, barely any recoil compared to the earlier AK models because of the hole at the top of the muzzle to reduce recoil.

With regards to RECOIL, I believe the weapon's ROF plays a good role in distributing the rounds .. ie the distance between each subsequent round.

Anyway, good thing my sci-fi calculator has a DEG <-> RAD conversion.

Frankly speaking ... I don't want to change the weapons to something ridiculous ... As I research I may adjust.
I'll tell you this ... using the hanger as a reference, it's about 35 meters long (estimate) and weapons with high recoil are useless beyond half the distance in the hanger, ie 20 meters or so ... I'm gauging this on a full triple burst aimed at the feet with the last bullet hitting about man height.

I'll post some screenies later to show you guys (and gals) the range I'm talking about.

Rob

EDIT NOTE : I recommend using the airport hanger as a firing range , nice and flat. I choppered in all my ammo , all the guns from storage and I'll probably purchace a bunch of guns to test out. Makes for a good change of pace during a campaign since it doesn't hurt anything ... I'll go back to my campaign saves beforehand to continue where I left off.

[Hard Sarge]

when I say, I can't see them, it is what the game is saying, either a grey target, or a target the game tells me the trooper can't see when I target it, as above, I killed 4 targets, when the game told me I didn't have a LOS to the target

I have trouble with the idea of recoil, most of what people think, is from the movies, it takes very little training to learn to use recoil or handle it

a 44 Mag blows your hand up, the weight of the pistol drops it right back on target and you fire again, takes very little work to learn to cock the hammer on the way back down, a 45 pushes your hand back towards you, it is a very good pointing weapon (but, the 45 scares most people, and if you are scare of it, you can't shoot it)

a 7.62x39 got a kick like a 22 lr, now a 308 kicks like a mule, but most 308s are heavy weapons, and the weight sucks up the recoil, never seen any of the AK's have much kick, the round is too small, most people who let a weapon kick, is doing it in there mind, I used to be a rifle coach, and would laff at the guys on the line, rocking back and forth while firing a M-16, the rifle wasn't rocking them, they were doing it themselfs, the 16 has no kick, you can hold it in one hand and fire off a 30 round clip, and nothing happens

and that is the idea behind the bullpups, recoil is designed out of them

(now, I will admit, you not going to be putting rounds into the same hole while firing bursts, with most of these weapons, but you are not going to be shooting at his toe and missing his head with the 2nd or 3rd round)

overall, you counter recoil with the weight of the weapon, the design of the weapon (bullpups or muzzlebreaks) or by training

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
(now, I will admit, you not going to be putting rounds into the same hole while firing bursts, with most of these weapons, but you are not going to be shooting at his toe and missing his head with the 2nd or 3rd round)

overall, you counter recoil with the weight of the weapon, the design of the weapon (bullpups or muzzlebreaks) or by training

HS,

Agreed.

I just tested the AK-74 again and I feel it's too much of a spread for the 2nd and 3rd round. As a matter of fact, I feel the AKM and the AK-74 recoil data is swapped ... meaning the AKM has a tighter pattern than the 74.

In the screen shot below, I'm at the airport firing from the fence (I'll show a second screenie in the next post showing an overhead view).
The numbers 1,2,3 show the approximate location of the rounds hitting the wall behind jabby (using the AK74), 3 rnd burst. Distance ~ 70 meters.
The letters A,B,C show where my proposed shot locations will be for the AK74 for the same distance.

Thanks for your knowledge on all this ... your input in much appreciated.

Rob

EDIT NOTE : Correction ... AKM and AK74 data for recoil identical ... I must be thinking of another AK in the game.

[Mraah]

Overhead of my make-shift target range ... Airport Hanger.

[Hard Sarge]

greesh, that is not recoil, the weapon broke in half and exploded

70 meters, a 3 round burst, you should be able to blow his chest apart

that is the trouble with this kind of stuff, you can aim and miss, but if you hit, all should hit, or been very near misses

you can aim, and not be alined with the target, which will make the 2nd and 3rd round be off center, even more so with the recoil effects, but Merks should know how to shoot, so that shouldn't be a issue

(if your body and weapon is lined up with the target, once you fire, the weapon should come back to rest, lined up with the target, if it does not, you are using your muscles to hold it on the target, which is not really a issue when target shooting or slow fireing, but rapid firing, or combat firing, means you are missing most of your shots (a trick you can try, if you have a rifle lying around or something like one, aim at something, and then shut your eyes, take a breath, now open your eyes, are you still looking at the target the way you were before you closed your eyes ? if so, your body and weapon are lined up with the target, if you have to reaim to the target, it means you are using your muscles to hold onto the target)

[pndrev]

Balance aside... I only used the P1, G3, G36 and the MG3 of the Bundeswehr, but that shot pattern at that distance is ridiculous. I understand balancing issues, but from a prone position I'd expect better results. No wonder I get halfway realistic results only when aiming at the legs of an enemy standing 10 m away - that's about when the final bullet hits the head.


Also, we need bullet hole decals for better testing.