Problem With Some Running Plays

[DreamTeams]

Just wondering if anyone else is seeing this...

Guess it's hard coded that sometimes the QB pitches the ball to the RB (safety valve) in order to avoid a sack. However, the problem is that most of the time the RB just stands there and does nothing. He just stands there and waits to be tackled. Then when he get's hit by two or three defenders he sometimes coaughs up the ball. Not sure if this is a bug or a play design/logic issue.

Any ideas on how to fix this?

PS: I use Hack's excellent playbooks.

Moderator note: Edited Topic Title

[hack153]

what plays are you seeing this on?  it may be that the QB and HB have a "wait" in one of their commands points which allows the blocks to set up. (however, i've been going through and editing some that are not necessary) otherwise, on passing plays, that shouldn't be happening.

[Mykal]

Oh Yer...........

I've seen this many times
the QB often makes no attempt to avoid a sack and just takes it on the chin
I think its just the way the game plays

[DreamTeams]

ORIGINAL: hack153

what plays are you seeing this on?  it may be that the QB and HB have a "wait" in one of their commands points which allows the blocks to set up. (however, i've been going through and editing some that are not necessary) otherwise, on passing plays, that shouldn't be happening.

The play that the game will use is one of the HB pitch plays. But, other times it dosn't show the play used. So, did a test and removed all of those pitch plays from the playbook and the AI still found and ran this type of play sometimes when the QB is about to get sacked. That's why I was wondering if it's somehow hard coded into the game and if others are experiencing the same thing. I remember reading that the more intelligent QB's look to dump the ball (when under pressure) was one of the features added to the latest update. I don't mind that, but I just hate it when the RB stands there, doing nothing, waiting to get tackled. Sort of wrecks the flow of a good drive and is certainly a waisted play.

Going to look a little closer and see if I can determine what is happening.

[DreamTeams]

ORIGINAL: Mykal

Oh Yer...........

I've seen this many times
the QB often makes no attempt to avoid a sack and just takes it on the chin
I think its just the way the game plays

I used to see what you describe more often, Mykal. But, now I notice that QB's will often pitch the ball forward to the HB and then he just stands there and takes it on the chin. This only happens sometimes, other times the HB runs. It's as though the wait logic gets screwed up sometimes.

[Marauders]

The HB may not have any place to go, but I can't tell unless I know which plays one is seeing this on.
 

[hack153]

very odd.  i have not seen that yet.

[garysorrell]

Well, maybe not the same thing, but I noticed in the Coach Williams playbook that several run plays were almost always stuffed in the backfield immediately after handoff.

I should be able to play my 2nd game tonight, I will look out for all of the above.

[hack153]

i looked at the williams playbook.  one of the problems is the Ace 4 Spread formation.  i am going to spread the WR out more, which should allow some xtra yardage.  we will see.  however, if you look at the running percents, they are set to very low.  you should expect to see a lot of passing with that playbook.
 
i'm going through all my playbooks and making more edits.  i am almost done editing all of the defensive plays, and then will start on the offense ones i have left.  i have a list of things that need some tweaking. plus, i am going to add some better 3rd down plays to each playbook.  i have too many short and short-med pass plays and need a couple 3rd and med/ 3rd and long plays.
 
any ideas are helpful.  thanks for the info gary!

[DreamTeams]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

The HB may not have any place to go, but I can't tell unless I know which plays one is seeing this on.

It happens most with Coach Goode. The ai usually selects this play...

Goode R Pro 3 HB Pitch

I'll keep an eye out for which play is run when I see it in the other books.

[hack153]

Goode is the next offensive playbook to get a face-lift.  i'll check it out.  i just finished a face-lift on all defensive plays.   

[DreamTeams]

Watched another game and this time it happened on this play...

Goode R Pros HB Cntr

The other team was using Coach Miller and it did not occur with that playbook. Yaaaay!

Thanks for looking into this, Hack and for continuing to improve your playbooks.

[Marauders]

Unless they are named incorrectly, HB pitch and HB counter plays should be runs.

They should have nothing to do with sack avoidance.

With run plays, if the run path extends beyond the line of scrimmage through an offensive lineman, the back will try to go through the lineman. A run to the hole is usually all that is needed.

Practicing plays against multiple defensive fronts in the PDS is helpful to finding problems of this sort.

[hack153]

Unless they are named incorrectly, HB pitch and HB counter plays should be runs.

both are running plays.

With run plays, if the run path extends beyond the line of scrimmage through an offensive lineman, the back will try to go through the lineman. A run to the hole is usually all that is needed.

does any one do that? if so, [:-][:-][:-][:-][:-][:-][:-]. just kidding.

Practicing plays against multiple defensive fronts in the PDS is helpful to finding problems of this sort.

i agree. make sure the defensive fronts use different rushing schemes too.

[DreamTeams]

Coach Smith had no occurance. Super!

So far, it seems to be a problem limited to Coach Goode.

Looks like the ai diverts to this play sometimes when it looks like the QB feels under pressure. Not sure if it's the original play selected. I play cpu vs cpu games

[hack153]

good to know.  i think i am going to ditch some of the PRO formations for an I, Strong I, or Weak I.

[garysorrell]

Hey Hack, i'm posting full game logs this season, if that would be of any help.

Obviously only the games involving Orlando are played out.

[hack153]

thanks.  that will be helpful.

[dreamtheatervt]

ORIGINAL: hack153

good to know.  i think i am going to ditch some of the PRO formations for an I, Strong I, or Weak I.

By "pro" do you mean split back formations? (As an aside, you got to love football language...I can draw up 6 different published formations for a "pro" formation.) If so, good call; split backs with QB under center have been phased out by most coaches (in real life) due to the obvious deficencies it has in the running game, combined with marginal improvements it gives the passing game over variants of the I formation.

[cbelva]

I have seen this too. What I see happening on these plays is that it is a run play where the QB drops back and then pitiches it to the RB like it is a shuttle pass. I have opened the play up in the editor and it looked designed that way. The QB drops back like to pass and then is given the command to pitch to HB. The HB just stands there because he has been given a "run to next point" command without a next point to go to. I change the command to run to end zone and it appears to correct the problem. I have found several like from different coaches. Most of these are "HB dive" plays.