on behalf of the perhaps more casual and certainly less talented among us. We grovel before your ability to master strategy games (with multiple scenarios/maps no less) within 24 hours of their release! [&o]
However could we possibly beseech you to share hints or aar's of your glorious victories instead of the (predictable) demands for a better ai and generally harder game.
Remember not all of us can be elite. In my case I'm definitely struggling at the small 4 planet map that comes right below the tutorial. I've built plenty of ships, but I'm out of fuel and have no idea where to get enough extra resources for ground troops.
Any and all hints would be deeply appreciated. [:)]
A plea to high octane players...
A plea to high octane players...
Rex Lex or Lex Rex?
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TheHellPatrol
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:41 pm
RE: A plea to high octane players...
=[8D]Okay lesson #1: Each planet gives you a certain resource eg:Red planet=Fuel Ice=Crystals etc... Depending on what race/units you use you'll need "x" resources.
My next step is a surefire winner: As soon as possible get your science vessel to a station and pick "safety protocols", then get your factories up to 5. Remember to look ahead before getting that Mothership to ensure you have the resources otherwise you will be stuck...literally. One more tip...when starting you can send one unit on your freighter to any close unoccupied planet(if available) and really speed things up[;)].
In summary: The most important first step is to get your production going and don't lose a planet in the meantime. The ai won't "rush" you and even if they did a few well placed ships, in your budget, and you should have no problems attaining victory.
My next step is a surefire winner: As soon as possible get your science vessel to a station and pick "safety protocols", then get your factories up to 5. Remember to look ahead before getting that Mothership to ensure you have the resources otherwise you will be stuck...literally. One more tip...when starting you can send one unit on your freighter to any close unoccupied planet(if available) and really speed things up[;)].
In summary: The most important first step is to get your production going and don't lose a planet in the meantime. The ai won't "rush" you and even if they did a few well placed ships, in your budget, and you should have no problems attaining victory.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau
Henry David Thoreau
RE: A plea to high octane players...
About how much play time does the longest ( largest ? ) Scenario provide ?
TIA
TIA
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TheHellPatrol
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:41 pm
RE: A plea to high octane players...
Haven't tried the longest yet, only the small/medium. A medium scn. i played yesterday took about 4 or 5 hours with the unlimited turns option. Every map is different so in turn it requires different strategy/pacing.ORIGINAL: Black Cat
About how much play time does the longest ( largest ? ) Scenario provide ?
TIA
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau
Henry David Thoreau
RE: A plea to high octane players...
Excellent!
I take it a Mothership is key? (why?) What mix of units do you build (or is will any mix do?) ? Do you build from just one race or is a mix more effective?
Thank You [:D] i hope others will join in....
I take it a Mothership is key? (why?) What mix of units do you build (or is will any mix do?) ? Do you build from just one race or is a mix more effective?
Thank You [:D] i hope others will join in....
Rex Lex or Lex Rex?
-
TheHellPatrol
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:41 pm
RE: A plea to high octane players...
Motherships are my preference because a) they're cool b) powerful and c) they can build units AND you can invade planets with them (use them like a freighter). I think the Groth are my favorite (Undead[8D]) but i'm starting to appreciate the Fvost as well. On that note, the Groth and Fvost work well together as they are not "arch enemies" which incur command penalties eg:Fvost vs. Chaar =Ice vs. Fire, Death vs. Life etc..they are opposites. Another thread, "Commanders", goes into more detail. I mostly use units of my race, bonus or not, but i won't scoff at a mothership of each if i can get it[:D]. Mix of units: Always at least 2 mechs, 2 or 3 snipers and some grunts thrown in for flavor. Don't overlook the "special" units as i haven't seen the ai use them yet and they can turn the tide of battle. Of course, before any invasion, i have my science vessel get me(after safety protocols) armor and weapon bonuses and orbital laser comes in handy if the ai is massing pure infantry units...which it seems to do alot of.ORIGINAL: willgamer
Excellent!
I take it a Mothership is key? (why?) What mix of units do you build (or is will any mix do?) ? Do you build from just one race or is a mix more effective?
Thank You [:D] i hope others will join in....
The biggest thrill with this game is trying out all the different units and their related strategies. The space battles do play a little like chess but aren't quite as exciting as the land battles which are more like Laser Squad Nemesis or X-Com Lite[;)].
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau
Henry David Thoreau
RE: A plea to high octane players...
The winning strategy? You may think I have some super-power and extra play-time being the PR guy... actually due to a problem with my main PC I wasn't able to play this until today (spent all day with it so I can speak intelligently on this).
So, after 1 day of play... THP really nailed some of the best tips I have found. The safety protocol seems by far to be one of the best advancements. He hinted at another thing: Take a look at how much it costs to MOVE your ships, managing upkeep is easy but managing your movement costs can be very hard. From what I can tell all war ships require fuel, gold, and crystals to move. Often I find that I have much more problems with Fuel and Crystals than gold (in that order actually). Why? I have no idea, i've only been playing for a day
Motherships: I don't like them. Don't get me wrong, they are awesome in the right situation, but in general, give me a battle cruiser and load it with 2-4 ships. Motherships DO pack a punch and can make units and other ships.... but you can swarm them easily. A mothership will be able to bring down 1 or 2 ships in a swarm but they can't fire adjacent to them, so if you get 4 ships to surround it, game over for your mothership... and even 3 ships means it is hamstrung in where it can move. Battlecruisers on the otherhand can transport ships (efficient travel cost), have nearly the same armor and weapon strength, and MUCH further range, which usually makes up for the fact the gun range is only 2, but with no minimum.
Last but not least, the gold guy's repair ships can HEAL battle cruisers, not motherships.
Ok so here's my 10 minute guide to races, since THP said he likes the undead but gives no reason why (I like them too)
Fire Guys: Ok, fuel is your main resouce and probably the most important.
Ships: High Attack, Low Def, Bad Range (Only the shockwave attack has a range), high speed.
Ship Tips: Use these ships to chase down fleeing vessels. The shockwave attack can nail a lot of targets, think suicide bombing.
Ground Units:
Flamethrower guys can hit MANY targets at once, but the don't seem to do much damage. I don't like them.
I haven't used the firebomb guys, but by the sounds of it you want to use him to pin down enemy units... sounds like it is more useful as a temporary wall than as an attack, but forcing someone to walk through an ambush certainly can be useful!
I haven't played much ground combat with these guys, so im missing some info on them
Ice guys: Crystals as a main resource! Yay!
Ships: LONG range, Low Attack, Low Defense
Ship Tips: Oh man... The huge range on a scimitar means it can hit ANY ship without having it return fire (cept a mothership). The problem is that you cant return fire at point blank. Your first ship type can fire at point blank but has a range of only 2. These ships require balance. Use both ships at the right time. Any ship with range 1 you can easily pummel, but beware range 2 ships, use the scimitars wisely. Have them fire first and then move the close range ships in to block and make sure the enemy can't get adjacent. Scims also get a teleport ability... you cant fire after using it so you either want to use this to send reinforcements to a battle or to get out of a bad situation. Usually you can't use it to chase down a fleeting ship because you'd be dropping a non-melee ship into enemy territory, alone.
Ground Units:
A unit that limits enemy movement, freezes enemies, or just makes them really cold. Limiting movement COULD be useful when fighting a fast mech unit, obviously freezing enemies makes them sitting ducks. It seems most of these units are designed to bring down small armies of LARGE units. In theory, also, a defender could simply run like the dickens if you can hamper their mobility enough and stave off the invasion that way.
Undead Guys: Ore as a resource... bring on the mechs!
Ships: High Armor, Low Movement, and good damage. Slow and steady wins the race!
Ship Tips: You get a good balance, a 1 range unit and a 2 range unit. Both do awesome damage and take forever to kill. You'll have a lot of trouble against a smart opponent who uses hit and away tactics, but if you aren't trying to get somewhere you are basically a turtle. I could see this race's ships having the MOST problems on very large maps. If possible, load them into a battle cruiser for extra speed.
Ground Units:
The ships are ok, but this is where the undead shine in my opinion. You get a suicide bomber, which is mostly worthless since they are easy to gun down and any SMART opponent WILL gun them down. I suppose if you sent a horde of them you could do some good damage, but i'd rather use my points on a big mech. And... it gets a plague spreading, armored, killing machine. Possibly the best unit I have come across, even though it takes up 10 spaces each. Heavy armor, good damage, and plague makes their mechs Mr. baddass. Plague is useful in situations where you are faster than their units (like mortar units). Plague them and run away... they'll die eventually! Otherwise the land armor tech gives these things nearly 90% armor... from what I can tell, that means it takes a regular sniper 2 hits to do ONE point of damage. On the flipside, it takes one of these puppies 2 shots to kill any human unit. Also you can get a guy to ressurrect the dead as undead minions. This works for BOTH teammates and enemies... a smart enemy will avoid fighting in the creepy mist.... the AI doesn't seem to care much. Zombies don't seem to be quite as good as infantry, but you can go into a battle with 10 snipers/infantry and come out with an army! The trick is to know that you are fighting humans, not machines.
Religious Zealot Guys: Resource ... food... totally worthless :/ (Most games I end with around 10,000 food anyway)
Ships: From what I can tell, good at everything except range. No ship they get has range.
Ship Tips: No range will give you a LOT of trouble. Their level 2 ships get the ability to heal damage ships every 3 turns though, and this makes them very dangerous. I typically use the level 2 ships mostly and the level 1 ships to guard the flanks of my armada so no ship can be destroyed in a single round. If they can't bring you down in 1 round you'll be healed and charging forward in no time.
Ground Units:
MEDIC! The healer on the ground will work miracles... but I prefer using him in conjuction with big mechs (less for him to heal). The trick is making sure he doesn't die The shield unit I have never used... it would be very useful when fighting a horde of snipers... but otherwise, who cares. They also get a unit that can 'convert' humanoids on the battlefield. I prefer that tactic to anything. Show them true faith... and when you are hurt... send in the medic
Well, that gives the tips section a start. 4:00 AM and time for bed!
-Joe
So, after 1 day of play... THP really nailed some of the best tips I have found. The safety protocol seems by far to be one of the best advancements. He hinted at another thing: Take a look at how much it costs to MOVE your ships, managing upkeep is easy but managing your movement costs can be very hard. From what I can tell all war ships require fuel, gold, and crystals to move. Often I find that I have much more problems with Fuel and Crystals than gold (in that order actually). Why? I have no idea, i've only been playing for a day
Motherships: I don't like them. Don't get me wrong, they are awesome in the right situation, but in general, give me a battle cruiser and load it with 2-4 ships. Motherships DO pack a punch and can make units and other ships.... but you can swarm them easily. A mothership will be able to bring down 1 or 2 ships in a swarm but they can't fire adjacent to them, so if you get 4 ships to surround it, game over for your mothership... and even 3 ships means it is hamstrung in where it can move. Battlecruisers on the otherhand can transport ships (efficient travel cost), have nearly the same armor and weapon strength, and MUCH further range, which usually makes up for the fact the gun range is only 2, but with no minimum.
Last but not least, the gold guy's repair ships can HEAL battle cruisers, not motherships.
Ok so here's my 10 minute guide to races, since THP said he likes the undead but gives no reason why (I like them too)
Fire Guys: Ok, fuel is your main resouce and probably the most important.
Ships: High Attack, Low Def, Bad Range (Only the shockwave attack has a range), high speed.
Ship Tips: Use these ships to chase down fleeing vessels. The shockwave attack can nail a lot of targets, think suicide bombing.
Ground Units:
Flamethrower guys can hit MANY targets at once, but the don't seem to do much damage. I don't like them.
I haven't used the firebomb guys, but by the sounds of it you want to use him to pin down enemy units... sounds like it is more useful as a temporary wall than as an attack, but forcing someone to walk through an ambush certainly can be useful!
I haven't played much ground combat with these guys, so im missing some info on them
Ice guys: Crystals as a main resource! Yay!
Ships: LONG range, Low Attack, Low Defense
Ship Tips: Oh man... The huge range on a scimitar means it can hit ANY ship without having it return fire (cept a mothership). The problem is that you cant return fire at point blank. Your first ship type can fire at point blank but has a range of only 2. These ships require balance. Use both ships at the right time. Any ship with range 1 you can easily pummel, but beware range 2 ships, use the scimitars wisely. Have them fire first and then move the close range ships in to block and make sure the enemy can't get adjacent. Scims also get a teleport ability... you cant fire after using it so you either want to use this to send reinforcements to a battle or to get out of a bad situation. Usually you can't use it to chase down a fleeting ship because you'd be dropping a non-melee ship into enemy territory, alone.
Ground Units:
A unit that limits enemy movement, freezes enemies, or just makes them really cold. Limiting movement COULD be useful when fighting a fast mech unit, obviously freezing enemies makes them sitting ducks. It seems most of these units are designed to bring down small armies of LARGE units. In theory, also, a defender could simply run like the dickens if you can hamper their mobility enough and stave off the invasion that way.
Undead Guys: Ore as a resource... bring on the mechs!
Ships: High Armor, Low Movement, and good damage. Slow and steady wins the race!
Ship Tips: You get a good balance, a 1 range unit and a 2 range unit. Both do awesome damage and take forever to kill. You'll have a lot of trouble against a smart opponent who uses hit and away tactics, but if you aren't trying to get somewhere you are basically a turtle. I could see this race's ships having the MOST problems on very large maps. If possible, load them into a battle cruiser for extra speed.
Ground Units:
The ships are ok, but this is where the undead shine in my opinion. You get a suicide bomber, which is mostly worthless since they are easy to gun down and any SMART opponent WILL gun them down. I suppose if you sent a horde of them you could do some good damage, but i'd rather use my points on a big mech. And... it gets a plague spreading, armored, killing machine. Possibly the best unit I have come across, even though it takes up 10 spaces each. Heavy armor, good damage, and plague makes their mechs Mr. baddass. Plague is useful in situations where you are faster than their units (like mortar units). Plague them and run away... they'll die eventually! Otherwise the land armor tech gives these things nearly 90% armor... from what I can tell, that means it takes a regular sniper 2 hits to do ONE point of damage. On the flipside, it takes one of these puppies 2 shots to kill any human unit. Also you can get a guy to ressurrect the dead as undead minions. This works for BOTH teammates and enemies... a smart enemy will avoid fighting in the creepy mist.... the AI doesn't seem to care much. Zombies don't seem to be quite as good as infantry, but you can go into a battle with 10 snipers/infantry and come out with an army! The trick is to know that you are fighting humans, not machines.
Religious Zealot Guys: Resource ... food... totally worthless :/ (Most games I end with around 10,000 food anyway)
Ships: From what I can tell, good at everything except range. No ship they get has range.
Ship Tips: No range will give you a LOT of trouble. Their level 2 ships get the ability to heal damage ships every 3 turns though, and this makes them very dangerous. I typically use the level 2 ships mostly and the level 1 ships to guard the flanks of my armada so no ship can be destroyed in a single round. If they can't bring you down in 1 round you'll be healed and charging forward in no time.
Ground Units:
MEDIC! The healer on the ground will work miracles... but I prefer using him in conjuction with big mechs (less for him to heal). The trick is making sure he doesn't die
The shield unit I have never used... it would be very useful when fighting a horde of snipers... but otherwise, who cares. They also get a unit that can 'convert' humanoids on the battlefield. I prefer that tactic to anything. Show them true faith... and when you are hurt... send in the medic Well, that gives the tips section a start. 4:00 AM and time for bed!
-Joe
Joseph Lieberman
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TheHellPatrol
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:41 pm
RE: A plea to high octane players...
My preference for the Undead, in this case Groth, has been a fascination back from childhood watching scary movies while i polished and cared for my Avalon Hill counters(chits)[:)]. They are always the coolest in games and Supremacy is no exception, the maps are gorgeous on the Groth Planets[:D].
Groth mechs are badass and they cover alot of ground...my top pick! Motherships can fire very far in one direction and when parked near one of your planets with support they can be indispensible.
@Joe: Yes the Motherships can be swarmed but i use them at the center of a wedge with Fvost scimitars on the flanks and Death Merchants filling the gaps[X(]...needless to say, i can bring my Mothership across the galaxy with enough time. Capture one planet and you have one Hell of a foothold![;)]
Groth mechs are badass and they cover alot of ground...my top pick! Motherships can fire very far in one direction and when parked near one of your planets with support they can be indispensible.
@Joe: Yes the Motherships can be swarmed but i use them at the center of a wedge with Fvost scimitars on the flanks and Death Merchants filling the gaps[X(]...needless to say, i can bring my Mothership across the galaxy with enough time. Capture one planet and you have one Hell of a foothold![;)]
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau
Henry David Thoreau
RE: A plea to high octane players...
Yeah! [:D]
The cumulative effect of these tips is helping a great deal; I've now won a game at each of the 1st two maps...
One tactic I've stumbled across is Tractoring Field. Since small, cheap ships can do this, it's a great way (if you have the per use resources) to *tie up* a high powered expensive enemy and destroy him piecemeal.
Another excellent use for cheap ships is to fill up all 4 slots on an enemy planet rendering it unable to create new ships.
Thanks Guys and keep it coming....
The cumulative effect of these tips is helping a great deal; I've now won a game at each of the 1st two maps...
One tactic I've stumbled across is Tractoring Field. Since small, cheap ships can do this, it's a great way (if you have the per use resources) to *tie up* a high powered expensive enemy and destroy him piecemeal.
Another excellent use for cheap ships is to fill up all 4 slots on an enemy planet rendering it unable to create new ships.
Thanks Guys and keep it coming....
Rex Lex or Lex Rex?
RE: A plea to high octane players...
Yes, never underestimate the usefulness of the Tractor Beam. Its main advantage is that it prevents the tractored ship from returning fire, which is no small thing. Preventing it from running away is just icing on the cake.
My favorite ships (besides Battlecruisers, of course) are the Fvost Scimitar and the Altan Sentinel. The Scimitar is good because it can attack while remaining out of range of any other ship in the game, while its hyperdrive ability makes it ideal as an emergency response vehicle. The Sentinel's main advantage is that it can repair other ships, but keep in mind that this isn't like the repairs done at a planet or a space station. The repair is instantaneous, and the repaired unit can even move and fire in the same turn that it gets repaired.
My favorite ships (besides Battlecruisers, of course) are the Fvost Scimitar and the Altan Sentinel. The Scimitar is good because it can attack while remaining out of range of any other ship in the game, while its hyperdrive ability makes it ideal as an emergency response vehicle. The Sentinel's main advantage is that it can repair other ships, but keep in mind that this isn't like the repairs done at a planet or a space station. The repair is instantaneous, and the repaired unit can even move and fire in the same turn that it gets repaired.
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TheHellPatrol
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:41 pm
RE: A plea to high octane players...
[X(]What! And waste all that precious experience-giving cannon fodder![;)] Bring 'em on i say[:D].ORIGINAL: willgamer
Another excellent use for cheap ships is to fill up all 4 slots on an enemy planet rendering it unable to create new ships.
Thanks Guys and keep it coming....
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau
Henry David Thoreau
RE: A plea to high octane players...
Great research! JosephL!They also get a unit that can 'convert' humanoids on the battlefield. I prefer that tactic to anything.
For the "A5 Missionary", it's actually able to convert all types of units, but the possibilities of successfully converting depends on the target's armor and HP situation.
Hope that helps.
--
Programmer, Supremacy
Haska Su
RE: A plea to high octane players...
ORIGINAL: Haska
Great research! JosephL!They also get a unit that can 'convert' humanoids on the battlefield. I prefer that tactic to anything.
For the "A5 Missionary", it's actually able to convert all types of units, but the possibilities of successfully converting depends on the target's armor and HP situation.
Hope that helps.
--
Programmer, Supremacy
Haska Su
Someone get this guy a tag and a title [:)].
Welcome
RE: A plea to high octane players...
I second the motion.ORIGINAL: SlapBone
Someone get this guy a tag and a title [:)].
Welcome