Status of 3rd Pz Div 1941 OOB

[rickier65]

While working on 3rd Pz Div OOB i note references all show most, though not all Pioneer units with fairly full complement of Lgt MG. To reproduce that I've used the Reg. 41 Inf and made them elite. Those units have the correct complement of Lgt. MG. This was done even in the Pioneer Bn for two of the three Pioneer Comp. The third company had no Lgt MG so I used the Pioneer unit modeled in the game.

Also, a number of references made note of a few armored companies in the infantry contingents, but none of them were specific on what dishtinguised them weaponwise from regular companies. So in only one instance did I make that distinction. That was giving the 1st Co/I Bn/3rd Schutzen Rgt halftracks. As far as I can tell, none of the units in the 3rd Pz Div had halftracks in 6/1941 - but this company was singled out as armored - and I thought they'd look good.

I also left the AA Co. out of the 543rd PzJg Bn OOB-The only AA unit they had was 20mm, dual and quad. But in game we only show the 88 Flak unit.

One other modification was I abbreviated the units using the PzG designation rather than Schutzen, mainly for economy of letters (and even with that, I note the name of a few units extends outside of one of the game display boxes.

The Battle plan isn't functional in game because it's way too big. In order to get the RBG to use it, I had to reduce the probability of any given unit appearing down to about 10%. Otherwise the I kept getting errors that RBG couldn't place xxx unit on this template ( I think that msg is generated when it runs out of room for units). But at least now I've got the entire 3rd Pz Div in Panzer Command format.

Now I need to sort through some ways to make these useable in the game. I'm going to look into using presets to parcel out the units and have the Battle Plan randomly select one of the presets. And I still need to sort though equipment upgrades, etc.

Thanks for help with info on this project!

Rick

[rickier65]

After looking closer at the file structure and trying a couple of things with preset file, it doesn't look like I'll be able to accomplish what I was hoping to.

I'll have to do some more thinking about this.

Apparently the presets file, will allow me to put in a core unit section, but it seems to ignore it and only give auxilliary units on random battles. I'll look at it closer but that looks like what's happening.

Unfortunately, for auxilliary units, only the name "root" is used and the RBG creates the first part, so it doesn't allow you to recreate the exact OOB. I"m going to try one or two other things.

If if all else fails, I can still create a campaign similar to the ones that shipped with the game(3rd Panzer 1941 Short for example).

But I have some other ideas as well.

I was hoping to be able to create a battle plan that would have different random presets. where each preset would have a different 'core' force that would be historical componenets of the 3rd PzD., while the auxiallary units would also still be the historical remaining units of the division. Still have a couple of things to try though.

Thanks
Rick

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: Rick

After looking closer at the file structure and trying a couple of things with preset file, it doesn't look like I'll be able to accomplish what I was hoping to.

I'll have to do some more thinking about this.

What exactly do you want to do?

Apparently the presets file, will allow me to put in a core unit section, but it seems to ignore it and only give auxilliary units on random battles. I'll look at it closer but that looks like what's happening.

Put your core units in the main battle plan

Unfortunately, for auxilliary units, only the name "root" is used and the RBG creates the first part, so it doesn't allow you to recreate the exact OOB. I"m going to try one or two other things.

Maybe I can adjust to RBG to do the naming you want?

If if all else fails, I can still create a campaign similar to the ones that shipped with the game(3rd Panzer 1941 Short for example).

But I have some other ideas as well.

I was hoping to be able to create a battle plan that would have different random presets. where each preset would have a different 'core' force that would be historical componenets of the 3rd PzD., while the auxiallary units would also still be the historical remaining units of the division. Still have a couple of things to try though.

Do this in the battle plan.

Regards

S.

[rickier65]

I had lots of ideas, but basicly what I was trying accomplish was to get a historically accurate Divisional OOB where the player could 'pick' which divisional units he would use for either a RB, or as a core force in a RC.

It looks like I need a combination of Battle Plans and presets to do this, with core forces identified in Battle Plans and extra or auxilliary forces in the presets. So far so good, BUT in the presests, the auxilliary forces don't get 'fixed' names. The 'root' name from the preset file is used, but you might end up with 6 platoons for a specific company, when historically there were only 3.

In the Battle Plan on the other hand, you can have the exact unit name and composition, but realistically you can genearlly have only 1-2 companies in a Core force, perhaps 3. So that means that basically each Battalion will need it's own Battle Plan.

I was trying to find a way to work around this by setting up core forces in the presets, so that the exact unit names and compositions could be used at that level, and then set the battle plan to randomly select which one (using the preset tag in the BattlePlan.). This way if someone wanted to do a RBG with a specific unit, they could simply select that preset and default Battle plan, but if they wanted a random force from a specific Division, they would select that Divisions Battle plan.

I obviously haven't throught this through very well.

Rather than you wasting your time on my vague thoughts, I think I'll spend some time digging into how the presets and the battle plans work, and actually build some battle plans myself. I think by having the entires Division in XML game format I should be able to do this. Then maybe I can better formulate what I'd like to be able to do.

Thanks!
Rick

[Stridor]

Rick,

As you have discovered whilst the RBG/RCG system is flexible, it is not infinitely flexible. Most of this has to do with the limitations of the PCK engine itself.

Having said that if you work out exactly what it is you want to do, and the RBG/RCG system can do it, *and* it is not too big of a job, **and** it won't break backwards compatibility, then I could probably make some tweaks to support it.

Keep in mind that a big limitation of the PCK engine is that it needs to see the same core units in subsequent scenarios otherwise it will "forget" their continuity status. One way around this is to "rest" core units by including them in subsequent scenarios but as reinforcements with ridiculously long arrive times. I guess this would be historically correct as well to a certain point. Any unit was potentially available to the division, if you were prepared to wait long enough! (by which time the battle was lost of course). If you set the arrival time late enough the points for the platoon will = 0. Just make a note in the battle plan briefing so the player doesn't get totally confused ("why is there a core platoon with a 100 turn delay?")

I am really looking forward to see what you can come up with especially now that the MM supports autogen of templates. Even quick and dirty MM maps should trump the stock ones in terms of looks and functionality.

Regards

S.

[rickier65]

Just a status report - still working on this campaign. Research was bigger job than I expected. I've finished going through my four main sources, and I'm collating the notes. I found a map from the West Point Map Series that I cleaned up and and adjusted and I'll use this for my own plotting, and perhaps as the campaign map image.

I've got 150-200 'notes' I'm sorting through - most won't be used of course - I'm using powerpoint to collate my notes (thats what I ended up taking notes).

I'm not really rushing to get this done. I'm also still working on the Hill 621 scenario though it's a bit on hold waiting for a couple of things to get finished. (and I've started going through SSG's Kharkov:Disaster on the Donet's).

In the meantime, here an image of the 3rd Pz Div area Of Operations Map I'll probably be using for campaign plot.

Thanks,
Rick

[rickier65]

Just an update - Still working on this ( I never said I was fast).

I've charted the route for the 3rd Pz. Up until Rogachev. (July 2-4). I'll probably do one or maybe two battles in the Schlobin - Rogachev - Bychov area.

Had a fair bit of trouble trying to locate place calle Novye Bychov. (and Starry Bychov). Finally located Bychov ( and I think found out the Novye translates to New, and Starry translates to Old).

Haven't decided yet when I'll cut it off.

I'm preparing a campaign narrative (annotated), mainly so I can keep in mind what was happening between engagments.

Below is Campaign progress so far. I still need to plot Bychov crossings.

Thanks,
Rick

[rickier65]

Just a quick status report.

I've started working on the first scenario in this campaign. This will be at Kobrin. Working on the map just now - spent a fair bit of time this evening on getting the bridge over the Mukhavets River to fit just the way I wanted. ended up building a "bridge demo map" so I could look at all available bridges in one place.

Still not satisifed -

I was also not happy with how I did the outskirts of Kobrin - so I need to work on that

Thanks.
Rick