Engage/Move question

[benpark]

When my units are given the Engage/Move order, they don't seem to be using their weapons until the reaction phase. I then manually target enemy units, and my friendly unit stops it's movement. Is this correct? What order do I need to give to let each commander auto-target while on the move? I find that moving forward, I constantly need to leave about 1/2 of my force behind to overwatch. Otherwise, my tanks plod along into intense enemy fire without firing back.

[redwolf]

ORIGINAL: benpark

When my units are given the Engage/Move order, they don't seem to be using their weapons until the reaction phase. I then manually target enemy units, and my friendly unit stops it's movement. Is this correct? What order do I need to give to let each commander auto-target while on the move? I find that moving forward, I constantly need to leave about 1/2 of my force behind to overwatch. Otherwise, my tanks plod along into intense enemy fire without firing back.

This is different by command. For some command you can only fire in the reaction phase, for others not at all. The attack move will allow firing all the time.

There's also the bound command which does the overwatch for you (for the Germans).

[Laryngoscope]

I must admit I am little confused about the difference between move commands as well [:@]. Although the manual does a reasonable job it doesn't cover all possibilities. Even after playing a few games I remain in the dark [&:]

As far as I can tell (and can someone please correct me if i am wrong):

1. Advance means that a unit will move toward it's destination at 1/2 NORMAL speed and fire once per phase. Presummably if a target hasn't been pre-selected the advancing unit will auto target an enemy of opportunity?? A Turreted vehicle or Infantry should be able to target 360?? but a fixed gun can only target straight ahead? Is this right??

2. Rush seems simple enough [:D]

2. Engage->Move means that a unit will move forward at NORMAL speed but if it does it can't then fire that phase. My question is that if the movement was small (say less than the distance covered by the advance command) then can the unit still fire that phase?? If not then Advance is a better command for short distances (< 1/2 movement allotment). The manual also mentions that the Engage command will target and/or move. Does that mean that if a target is sighted and an Engage->Move command given the unit will shoot instead of moving that phase or move instead of shooting??

3. Engage->Target (similar ?? as for Engage->Move) Will the unit actually *move* it's position (x,y) to bring the target into a solution or just rotate as the manual implies. If it moves or rotates does this then not allow it to shoot for that phase?? As per the general Engage rule?

4. Withdraw. What is its speed? Do you get a move and fire each phase or just one per turn? Is it in effect Advance backwards?

5. Defend->Move the manual makes it sound like this is exactly like the Engage->Move command (move OR shoot each phase), but with the limitation that the move distance is capped? In what situation would I use this over Engage->Move?

6. Defend->Stay = Engage->Hold - Is this the default order for a platoon?

7. Defend->Facing if the facing changes for a phase do you also get a firing opp?

8. Regroup. What movement/firing rules does this work under exactly. Advancement rules or Engage->Move rules?


And finally just a few last questions?

Platoon orders are great mostly but sometimes you need a little finer control on positioning of your units. An example would be to advance one unit a small way but withdraw another to setup a better position. Is there a way to do this? It is possible possible to give individual firing commands to each unit so why not movement orders?

If I have a platoon of say 3 tanks in a good firing solution (2 of which are track immobilised but still able to fire) and I wish to take the commander and Rush him off somewhere else (he is not immobilised), do the immobilised tanks still get a shot in each phase (as they should), even though they are technically under Rush rules (and hence forbidden shoot for the phase)?

[benpark]

Fatigue for infantry doesn't seem to be modelled. Rushing from one end of the map(if they live that long) would be possible. Add this as a must for the next game, please!

[mbtanker]

Same goes for supression as well right? A suppressed unit is non suppressed next turn? I guess this all goes back to the issue of all or nothing with infantry but it is an issue for tanks as well.

[koiosworks]

ORIGINAL: Laryngoscope

1. Advance means that a unit will move toward it's destination at 1/2 NORMAL speed and fire once per phase. Presummably if a target hasn't been pre-selected the advancing unit will auto target an enemy of opportunity?? A Turreted vehicle or Infantry should be able to target 360?? but a fixed gun can only target straight ahead? Is this right??

yes, that is right

2. Engage->Move means that a unit will move forward at NORMAL speed but if it does it can't then fire that phase. My question is that if the movement was small (say less than the distance covered by the advance command) then can the unit still fire that phase?? If not then Advance is a better command for short distances (< 1/2 movement allotment). The manual also mentions that the Engage command will target and/or move. Does that mean that if a target is sighted and an Engage->Move command given the unit will shoot instead of moving that phase or move instead of shooting??

3. Engage->Target (similar ?? as for Engage->Move) Will the unit actually *move* it's position (x,y) to bring the target into a solution or just rotate as the manual implies. If it moves or rotates does this then not allow it to shoot for that phase?? As per the general Engage rule?

the main point of engage is that it lets DIFFERENT units in the same squad move and fire. so some can move while others fire. All other commands are 'all move' or 'all stay' sorts of commands. engage allows for some flexibility. Also, a unit that turns it turret to fire will miss some or all of its firing opportunities baded on how much the turret turns, the units turret turning speed, and the units rate of fire.

4. Withdraw. What is its speed? Do you get a move and fire each phase or just one per turn? Is it in effect Advance backwards?

yes, think of it as advance backward

5. Defend->Move the manual makes it sound like this is exactly like the Engage->Move command (move OR shoot each phase), but with the limitation that the move distance is capped? In what situation would I use this over Engage->Move?

you get to fire both phases vs only one phase.

6. Defend->Stay = Engage->Hold - Is this the default order for a platoon?

7. Defend->Facing if the facing changes for a phase do you also get a firing opp?

all defends let you fire both phases, however moving will lower your accuracy. (defend move/face)

8. Regroup. What movement/firing rules does this work under exactly. Advancement rules or Engage->Move rules?

more like the engage-move rules

And finally just a few last questions?

Platoon orders are great mostly but sometimes you need a little finer control on positioning of your units. An example would be to advance one unit a small way but withdraw another to setup a better position. Is there a way to do this? It is possible possible to give individual firing commands to each unit so why not movement orders?

yes, for all orders, once you set the commander's order (say advance) THEN you can go to each unit in the squad and give it a mini-advance order/destination. In other words, once you set the group order, you can then go independently set each unit in the group to a new destination (over-riding the default destination it got from the commander's order

If I have a platoon of say 3 tanks in a good firing solution (2 of which are track immobilised but still able to fire) and I wish to take the commander and Rush him off somewhere else (he is not immobilised), do the immobilised tanks still get a shot in each phase (as they should), even though they are technically under Rush rules (and hence forbidden shoot for the phase)?

regardless to order, all units that are not moving (reached destination, disabled etc.) get to fire. In effect, the phase restrictions on firing are only there to hamper moving units.

Thansk!

[koiosworks]

Same goes for supression as well right? A suppressed unit is non suppressed next turn? I guess this all goes back to the issue of all or nothing with infantry but it is an issue for tanks as well.

suppression can last move than one turn - ie, multiple turns. each unit checks to recover from suppression at the end of each turn. if it does not recover, it remains suppressed.

thanks

[Laryngoscope]

ORIGINAL: koiosworks

And finally just a few last questions?

Platoon orders are great mostly but sometimes you need a little finer control on positioning of your units. An example would be to advance one unit a small way but withdraw another to setup a better position. Is there a way to do this? It is possible possible to give individual firing commands to each unit so why not movement orders?

yes, for all orders, once you set the commander's order (say advance) THEN you can go to each unit in the squad and give it a mini-advance order/destination. In other words, once you set the group order, you can then go independently set each unit in the group to a new destination (over-riding the default destination it got from the commander's order

Thanks for clearing some of these orders up. There is still obviously alot going on under the hood that I yet don't understand but I am getting there. I guess in my own mind a type of executive summary of all the orders might be this:

Units will move *first* and shoot *second*. If too much *moving* has occured during a phase then there is no time left for *shooting*. Each order is then just a way of proportioning how much time is allocated for moving and shooting each phase.

With respect to my final point quoted above, I understand and have used the movement orders individually for each unit within a platoon, but that is not exactly my question. What if I want to give an Advance order to my platoon leader but a Withdraw order to my wingman? If I try to set individual advance paths for each tank I often find the one under AT fire which I want to back up will turn the whole hull 180deg (nicely exposing it's soft parts) and then move "backwards" but facing the wrong way!

Thank Koiosworks, for taking the time to answer my questions.

[Erik Rutins]

Great summary of the orders by Kevin there, bumping this so everyone sees it.

ORIGINAL: Laryngoscope
1. Advance means that a unit will move toward it's destination at 1/2 NORMAL speed and fire once per phase. Presummably if a target hasn't been pre-selected the advancing unit will auto target an enemy of opportunity?? A Turreted vehicle or Infantry should be able to target 360?? but a fixed gun can only target straight ahead? Is this right??

As a side note - Advancing vehicles do not have a 360 target ability. Per the rules (I believe this is in the manual) only stationary infantry can "see" 360. While a turret can turn 360, an advancing vehicle is limited in the arc that it will "see" targets in. To have the best chance of acquiring a target while Advancing, advance towards the enemy.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Laryngoscope
With respect to my final point quoted above, I understand and have used the movement orders individually for each unit within a platoon, but that is not exactly my question. What if I want to give an Advance order to my platoon leader but a Withdraw order to my wingman? If I try to set individual advance paths for each tank I often find the one under AT fire which I want to back up will turn the whole hull 180deg (nicely exposing it's soft parts) and then move "backwards" but facing the wrong way!

You are limited to one platoon order per platoon, per turn. You can give the Platoon an Advance order and move up the platoon leader but leave the Wingman stationary, then give a Withdraw order next turn to pull the Wingman back while leaving the Platoon leader stationary. Platoons prefer to stick together as much as possible in Panzer Command.

In the case of being under AT gun fire, I would start with Withdraw to get out of trouble, then Advance the rest of the platoon next turn.

Regards,

- Erik