Price?

[Waffenamt]

I bought a $20 game a few months ago that I managed to squeeze about 10 minutes of enjoyment out of before I shelved it. Kind of like the $50 wonder I got a couple of years ago which almost killed me through boredom. That was a bad gamble. I got BFTB without any reservations because I really enjoyed the previous ones and knew I wouldn't be disappointed. I'm not, and I'm already getting great mileage out of it. It's all relative.

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: Nick Schieben

I bought a $20 game a few months ago that I managed to squeeze about 10 minutes of enjoyment out of before I shelved it. Kind of like the $50 wonder I got a couple of years ago which almost killed me through boredom. That was a bad gamble. I got BFTB without any reservations because I really enjoyed the previous ones and knew I wouldn't be disappointed. I'm not, and I'm already getting great mileage out of it. It's all relative.

But that's you. I(and I'm sure plenty of other members on this forums) have had plenty of games 20 bucks and under that have given hundreds of gameplay hours. Price has nothing to do with quality and how fun it is.(well, sometimes price does, but NOT when it comes to fun factor) Higher price doesn't mean it will give you more enjoyment...it's just a higher price. I'm not complaining about the price of this game, your argument just didn't make any sense.

[Waffenamt]

Eh - what argument is that? I thought I was just commenting about some of the crap (IMHO) I've had the misfortune of wasting my time and money on within the context of some of the rhetoric I've seen in this thread. People are whingeing about the price without even trying BFTB so I'm curious as to what the point of reference is for them. If you're happy haunting the bargain bins or just finding these amazing budget-priced but oodles-of-fun gems more power to you, and any of the "plenty of other members" who make these lucky finds. Like I paraphrased - it's all relative. Just curious - do you have BFTB?

[V22 Osprey]

I don't have BftB, I was just making a point that yea you have picked up bad games for $20, but I was making a point that there are PLENTY of games under $20 that will offer just as much(or even more) enjoyment as BftB. I was just merely pointing out the fact the Price doesn't mean how much fun you will have. Sorry for the misunderstanding, it's just that in your post you made it seem like that BftB's price tag is what made it automatically a good game, and that a $20 game can't have just as much enjoyment and fun factor as s $100 game.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
I don't have BftB, I was just making a point that yea you have picked up bad games for $20, but I was making a point that there are PLENTY of games under $20 that will offer just as much(or even more) enjoyment as BftB.

That rather depends on what you enjoy.

[NavalNewZ]

Price is relevant and comment worthy, in the same way that bugs, and game features are. In this case, the game in question is more expensive than the vast majority of comparable games out there. As such, it requires justification. Please don't disparage this thread simply because you bought the game and decided that it is 'ok'. I would suggest that the best solution to this issue is for people to explain why they think the game is good, rather than label some posters here as whingers. The publishers have suggested that they won't 'fix' this problem (price), so it remains to be seen if its worth purchasing...

[wodin]

I was shocked at the price...I have since got the game like a few who where out at the begining and like them I do feel the game is worth the outlay IF you enjoy wargames...

See my holey moley thread for an outburst by myself on the game...

[Steely Glint]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

But that's you. I(and I'm sure plenty of other members on this forums) have had plenty of games 20 bucks and under that have given hundreds of gameplay hours. Price has nothing to do with quality and how fun it is.(well, sometimes price does, but NOT when it comes to fun factor) Higher price doesn't mean it will give you more enjoyment...it's just a higher price.

Just to pick one example, I paid 20 bucks for Arsenal of Democracy and it has given me hundreds of hours of fun gameplay.

I have never said that I think this game is a bad game. I just find it way overpriced and accordingly will not buy it. Bear in mind that when you pay this much for a game, a light goes off in the game company's head about how much more they can get away with now when pricing games. Do you really want to be supporting higher prices in a time of economic crisis and downturn? You shouldn't. It's really not in your self-interest.

[Steely Glint]

ORIGINAL: bretg80

What if you were one of the developers. How would you feel?

I'd read this thread and then say "Damn, we seriously overpriced the game."

[DanOppenheim]

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint
I have never said that I think this game is a bad game. I just find it way overpriced and accordingly will not buy it.

Fair enough. I don't find it overpriced and bought it.

Bear in mind that when you pay this much for a game, a light goes off in the game company's head about how much more they can get away with now when pricing games. Do you really want to be supporting higher prices in a time of economic crisis and downturn? You shouldn't. It's really not in your self-interest.

They priced their game to what they think it is worth and what they need to charge to recoup their costs. I evaluated that price and decided I'd pay it; it didn't seem unreasonable for a game system that is light years ahead - in my opinion - than any other system I've played. £65 is really not a lot of money for the amount of enjoyment I get back. I couldn't care less if they now price all their games this way; if they're good enough I'll pay the price again.

You're correct in that most games wouldn't be worth £65. This one is to me. Not all games need be priced the same.

[CptWaspLuca]

My 2 cents. For me the price would be OK only for a gold edition, including HTTR+COTA scenarios with the new engine. But considering that armor issues, strange AI moves and other odd things are still present like in COTA and that PERSONALLY I feel the game is still basically the same I think it's overpriced.

I think that the price was intended exactly for the type of users on this forum: wargame grognards, thinking that spending 30$ more or less is irrelevant (I'm not criticizing this, it's only a consideration).

I love the series, consider this: I reviewed COTA with 9.2 (9.2!) on 10. But I can't find in the game enough new material to justify this price.

[wodin]

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

My 2 cents. For me the price would be OK only for a gold edition, including HTTR+COTA scenarios with the new engine. But considering that armor issues, strange AI moves and other odd things are still present like in COTA and that PERSONALLY I feel the game is still basically the same I think it's overpriced.

I think that the price was intended exactly for the type of users on this forum: wargame grognards, thinking that spending 30$ more or less is irrelevant (I'm not criticizing this, it's only a consideration).

I love the series, consider this: I reviewed COTA with 9.2 (9.2!) on 10. But I can't find in the game enough new material to justify this price.

I think your forgetting the Est Editor which opens up the game for a long time as I'm sure lots of user made content will come out which you didn't get with the previous games...also I think the problems are far less noticable than the previous games.

There you go BillyJJ and Major someone who has bought it and isn't to happy...see where not brainwashed[;)]

[CptWaspLuca]

ORIGINAL: wodin

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

My 2 cents. For me the price would be OK only for a gold edition, including HTTR+COTA scenarios with the new engine. But considering that armor issues, strange AI moves and other odd things are still present like in COTA and that PERSONALLY I feel the game is still basically the same I think it's overpriced.

I think that the price was intended exactly for the type of users on this forum: wargame grognards, thinking that spending 30$ more or less is irrelevant (I'm not criticizing this, it's only a consideration).

I love the series, consider this: I reviewed COTA with 9.2 (9.2!) on 10. But I can't find in the game enough new material to justify this price.

I think your forgetting the Est Editor which opens up the game for a long time as I'm sure lots of user made ciontent will come out which you didn't get with the previous games...also I think the problems are far less noticable than the previous games.

I don't give much value to it, it's true. I'm not a modder and I don't know if there will be enough people creating scenarios. Maybe it requires a lot of work and that the price will discourage many from buying. In many other games editors are given free at some point (sometimes in the first release).

About problems: personally I think that the armor problem is a lot bigger in BftB, because there are a lot more tanks.

I still like BftB, but without HTTR and COTA scenarios the price is too high for me.

[wodin]

I posted a replied to your worries in the other thread...the problems your seeing are being reproted as you can see from a few posts...I imagine a few people are wary about posting this sort of thing because of they might feel that the anti price lobby will pounce and say weve all been ripped off. Also alot of people are new to the game so probably don't notice yet anything out of the ordinary.

I really do think if we all highlight the issues they will get sorted out as the price warrants it. I really can't see Panther Games not resolving the issues with patch's because they know the game has cost a fair bit more than the normal so it needs to work well. It's abit of a concern that some issues are left over from the previous games but I do feel there not as bad as then so they have been worked on but they need abit more. Also all of us are playing the game so issues will arise that beta testers would have missed.

[Arsan]

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

My 2 cents. For me the price would be OK only for a gold edition, including HTTR+COTA scenarios with the new engine.

Good point! For that i will consider spending 80 euros, even if i already own HHTR and COTA and RDOA (and even that cool HTTR strategy guide).
Honesty i have never understood why Panther has not done something like this before. Letting all that great scenarios from HHTR of COTA "waste" themselves in old engines is a shame. Most of the work its already done isn't??[&:]
Updating them to the newest engine for a reasonable fee or including them in the new game to justify its rip-off price woudl have been a great idea IMHO.

I would like to add my 2 cents at this looog thread i have been reading.
Personally, even as a long time fan of Panther i will not be buying BFTB.
It's not that i can't afford it (even if i'm suffering the economic crisis, luckily things are not so bad that i cannot afford spending 80 euros) or that i think its not a good game.
It's just that i don't think it has anything worthy of such a special premium price.
Its sounds like a good evolution of a great gaming engine, but there is nothing revolutionary in it nor does it offer anything substantially different of the previous games or an exceptionally high level of content (as the other games, it has a lot of scenarios over the same campaign, one that i'm not specially interested in personally. Good level of content, but not anything to write home about).
DOes it has lots of nice tweaks and improvements?? sure.
A decent amount of content?? Sure.
A polished and innovative gaming engine?? Sure, as it has been since RDOA.
Something to justify paying twice the price of a normal game??. IMHO, no. Not at all.

The worst about this price thing is not that i feel Panther is digging themselves deeper and deeper on a still smaller niche of war gamers, scaring away a lot of potential new players that will pass on the game because of the price.
Not good for the future of the engine or the company, no matter how good are your games.

As an example, on this thread, a lot of pages back, Erik explained how they had upped the price of COTA lately to help support BFTB development. When i read it i though... "god, that's so bad!... why don't they think bigger??"
I don't know how many extra $ did the get increasing COTA's price by 10$?? I bet not that much...
Wouldn't it had been better to put that game (or even HHTR) at 20 bucks so new players would take the chance and get to know the gaming system??
Surely they would have improved sales a lot (after all, both games where already pass their prime time, i don't think the sell a lot at 50$) and more importantly, get new players to know and get hooked into the great Panther engine, and ready to get into BFTB when released.
But it seems they prefer to sell less and less games at higher price that more games cheaper, when the later means increasing their players community which means more buzz on the net about the games and more scenarios and more mods and more... future!.
Cheers!

[billyjj]

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

I think that the price was intended exactly for the type of users on this forum: wargame grognards, thinking that spending 30$ more or less is irrelevant (I'm not criticizing this, it's only a consideration).

Well I'm starting to think that they made the right choice, most of the "regulars" seem to have bought the game.. They have decided to start price gouging the fans of these games, what a shame that is... especially now that it is starting to slowly come out that this game isn't as great as everyone thought. Thank you for speaking the truth

[billyjj]

ORIGINAL: wodin

I posted a replied to your worries in the other thread...the problems your seeing are being reproted as you can see from a few posts...I imagine a few people are wary about posting this sort of thing because of they might feel that the anti price lobby will pounce and say weve all been ripped off. Also alot of people are new to the game so probably don't notice yet anything out of the ordinary.

I really do think if we all highlight the issues they will get sorted out as the price warrants it. I really can't see Panther Games not resolving the issues with patch's because they know the game has cost a fair bit more than the normal so it needs to work well. It's abit of a concern that some issues are left over from the previous games but I do feel there not as bad as then so they have been worked on but they need abit more. Also all of us are playing the game so issues will arise that beta testers would have missed.

They patch 40 dollar games too.. matter of fact just go to paradox forum their games have never ending patches with broken gameplay... so in that sense you guys got a better deal for 80 dollars than 40 dollars on HOI3.. unless of course there is some game breaking balance issue that only comes up once everyone gets the hang of the game. Like WW2 Time of Wrath still waiting on the patch to fix the tac bombers, and re balance the scenarios, I think everyone that bought that game has pretty much stopped playing it once they realized it is pointless.. do I feel ripped off, not really... but i could be a happier man. This is one of the reasons people should be hesitant to shell out 80 bucks on a game that may or may not be playable after a month.

[wodin]

Billy,

I told you the other day there are posts on here about problems with the game....it's just that it's been said in detail on here.

Even with the problems so far only one person has said he feels it isn't worth the price...these problems will get fixed...

No one was hiding something from you...you only have to read the other threads on here to see whats been said above.

Your post is exactly why no one posts here about things that could be fixed...

[wodin]

This is thread is getting idiotic now....I had problems with the price at first but I have the game and I do know even with its problems its worth the money TO ME! Infact I always knew it was worth the money it was that I diodn't think I could afford it, that was my problem.

Also worth the money to others aswell.

I understand people who are upset because they can't afford it....however those who bang on about it not being worth the money are getting boring now....don't buy it if you think it isn't worth it and it looks like your not going to....your loss in my opinion....

Honestly I really feel you all need to give it a rest now...

This thread is now dead to me...

[Sheytan]

I dont follow. Didnt you get a free copy of the game? Frankly, if you did you really need to relax. No matter what everything will filter itself and settle down in time. Further only one or two people seem to be hard core on the its not worth it tangent. So what? As to me I still will not buy it...least till a demo comes out.

ORIGINAL: wodin

This is thread is getting idiotic now....I had problems with the price at first but I have the game and I do know even with its problems its worth the money TO ME! Infact I always knew it was worth the money it was that I diodn't think I could afford it, that was my problem.

Also worth the money to others aswell.

I understand people who are upset because they can't afford it....however those who bang on about it not being worth the money are getting boring now....don't buy it if you think it isn't worth it and it looks like your not going to....your loss in my opinion....

Honestly I really feel you all need to give it a rest now...

This thread is now dead to me...