Price?

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

£56 and £63? With tax that's £66 and £74 - really - OUCH!

I SERIOUSLY cannot buy a game that costs that...Way to much money. Good luck Dave - but I'm checking out. [:(] Very sad.

Jeez I forgot about the VAT ... [X(] - counts up to about six on this page now and about ten on the wargamer...... I honestly can pass on this one - I just dont think there is enough extra here - but I think you made a mistake.

[RayWolfe]

C'mon guys. You know how many hours went into this game and by god you know how many hours you will get out of it!

[PunkReaper]

£56 and £63? With tax that's £66 and £74 - really - OUCH!

Was really looking forward to this game but at that price think I'll have to pass for now as well.....[:(][:(]

[Bamilus]

I mean I'm sure it's a fine game but now seeing the price I think I'll hold off. Especially since I haven't played HTTR in 7 years (and barely played it then) and there is no demo so I have no idea if I'll like the system or not.

Sorry, maybe later!

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

C'mon guys. You know how many hours went into this game and by god you know how many hours you will get out of it!

Well thats the point - I would have bought it to take a look - as a lot of people have said - and that I think reresents the vast majority of sales - the hardcore hours on end players represent a small minority - and this is simply not one of those buy or else games - not with the subject matter nad the lack of a full campaign. These days also its not so much about hours for dollars with me - and a lot of other people - its a case if I spend 30 quid on a game do I feel comfortable if I dont really play it ... yes .. at 75 pounds its a whole different ball game - especially not in times like these..

[JudgeDredd]

RayWolfe - I know. I understand. But there's a threshold on price and each person has his/her own threshold - that's WELL over mine...seriously well over. I eeked a game over £50 I think ONCE. But £50 is my absolute limit until I get a serious pay rise from work....I simply cannot (and will not) pay that much above my personal threshold.

Hell I was in the Across the Dnepr 2 forum telling eople it wasn't alot for that game blah blah blah...they rightly said, for them, as they saw it, it was too expensive for them. I disagreed and bought it - because it was under my threshold - way under. I can't help but think if it was £15 - £20 cheaper Matrix would have made that money back.

I seriously wish Dave and co luck...I really do. This was in the bag for me, but way way over my price barrier.

I'll go back to boardgaming full time at this rate! And no - I won't pay "whatever" is asked for War in the East. [:-] (sorry Wodin [:D] )

[MikeBrough]

FECK ME! I've had cheaper divorces.

I need to wait for the reviews.

[htuna]

Especially with no 'demo'... I understand our niche is small, and sales are not as big...thus prices are higher.. but on the other side, money is tight right now.. and I don't want to buy a game, that I'm gonna end up not getting into (which has already happened to me a few times this year - on the other side of the coin, I've picked up a few that I've really enjoyed)... but at that price... it's no brainer... 50's my limit on all games (reason I bought WITP and not AE)...

[JudgeDredd]

I do not need reviews to tell me I can't afford £74 for a game (more like closer to £80 if you add delivery).

I'm checking out the forum now - BftB will not be on my hard drive - not at that price.

I'll leave the people that can afford it and want to enjoy the release of this fine game. Dave and team good luck. Matrix - what were you thinking?

That's my piece said. Goodnight [:(]

[PunkReaper]

Perhaps Erik will introduce a discount for us here who have a £50 limit.......[:(]

[TonyAAA]

$79/89?  Ouch.

I'm a huge fan of CotA, but that's simply too much for me to spend as well.

Guess I'll just buy some other games and hope for a really good Christmas sale.

[MajFrankBurns]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

£34.99 for DD and £39.99 for physical shipment with printed manual. That's my guess.

Lol you were waaaaaay off by about 1/2, but, I would have preferred your price.

[Erik Rutins]

Guys, I understand the instinctive reaction to the price and I know it's not going to be within some gaming budgets. Nevertheless, this is what the price needs to be for this kind of wargame to be made and it's worth asking what games you are comparing it to when deciding that the price is too high. If we compare cars to wargames, this is effectively a Ferrari. It does not cut corners, it is meticulously hand-crafted and no expense was spared in terms of development time and effort to bring it to perfection. This is not a mass-market "reasonably priced car". Similarly, this is close to the price of many mass-market console games these days, which have far better economies of scale than a niche wargame can achieve.

I'm truly sorry that this has put some of you off, but this is only $20 more than COTA and the quality and value of this release is IMHO higher, especially with the full editing tools included.

With that said, I'm sure there will be a sale at some point in the non-near future, but in the meantime the reality is that this is the price a wargame like this needs to sell at in order to make wargames like this possible. This is also the price of games like WITP AE and while we do release many games that are priced lower they generally have commensurately less development time and cost. Each game and developer has a different business model.

The model for this game is the highest possible quality and realism in every respect, from research on maps, scenarios and units to the performance of the AI and the general playability, stability, polish and documentation of the game. I don't think I've worked with any developers that put a higher emphasis on quality than Panther does and frankly the time it takes to do that also has a cost. I've seen many comments on other games that wished for better scenarios, better AI, better testing or better documentation or just generally higher quality. All of that is here, I don't think you will find a single rough edge, but the additional $20-$30 over many other game prices is what that costs in order for this to be a viable ongoing business plan for this series.

Regards,

- Erik

[wodin]

I'm out....

[MajFrankBurns]

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

I just wanted to weigh in on the price.

Erik's comparison to WitP is a sound one. Games like this are well worth the price. Especially in the light of the garbage that mainstream developers release for $60. Paying an extra $20 for a good, solid game is well worth the cost in my opinoin.

It's not just paying an xtra $20 it's paying $80 for ONE game plus tax and if you want a physical copy that's another $20 after shipping. So that comes to around $100 and that will sure buy a lot of bargain bin $5-$9 games from Steam, Gamersgate, Impulse and GoG.

Making History II and Storm over the Pacific are coming out real soon as well. I would wager both of them together wouldn't cost more and we'd get a lot more gaming.

I'd have paid $49.99 immediately for this and thought about $59.99 but not $80-$100 I don't even play HTTR or COTA anymore anyway.

[wodin]

I'm going to see how much NWS end up selling it for....fingers crossed.

Next game to look forward to then is CM Normandy.

Eric I understand where your coming from...but I think it's flawed....you will sell far more copies if you reduce the price to at least between £45 and £50 than the amount you will sell at its current price.

In todays economic climate people just don't have that sort of money to spend on 1 game.

I really feel cheated out of my favourite wargame series because I do not have the finances to buy it...I'm disabled and can't work so the sort of money your asking is huge to me...

[boatrigm]

I was looking forward to this release after picking up HTTR & COTA but it's just too much money. These game prices are approaching the cost of WITP AE and seems to be heading toward the norm and I don't like it.

Too much for me....I'm out of here.

[MajFrankBurns]

@ Erik: What good is it to put a price you say is required for this type of game if hardly anyone is going to buy it? What's the use of producing it if hardly anyone is going to buy it. It's like you made a great movie but you want $30 at the gate above and beyond the regular ticket price to see it. How many people do you think are going to go see it? When making a price you also have to make one that the market is going to accept and pay. I think the list of non-buyers is growing pretty fast and should show you that you've made an incorrect decision this time. With this kind of price you'd have to have a lot of die hard fans to pay it and for you and developer to make a profit from those miniscule sales. I'll also say that the WitP game offers up a lot more than this game in in both detail and micromanagement and value for time spent playing it without even having to play BftB I think I'm pretty right on with that statement.

[Chad Harrison]

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

It's not just paying an xtra $20 it's paying $80 for ONE game plus tax and if you want a physical copy that's another $20 after shipping. So that comes to around $100 and that will sure buy a lot of bargain bin $5-$9 games from Steam, Gamersgate, Impulse and GoG.

Making History II and Storm over the Pacific are coming out real soon as well. I would wager both of them together wouldn't cost more and we'd get a lot more gaming.

I'd have paid $49.99 immediately for this and thought about $59.99 but not $80-$100 I don't even play HTTR or COTA anymore anyway.

I guess it depends on how many games you buy though. For me, I will buy two or three games a year. Not because of limited funds, but limited play time and/or interest in great games. I have come to the opinion that 'Okay' and 'Good' games are pretty easy to find, but great games are very, very rare. When one comes along, such as this, spending an extra $20 or so more than I would for an 'Okay' or 'Good' game is an easy decision.

Sure, I could buy 100 games from Steam for the same price, but those are not games that I want to spend my very precious free time on.

But to each his own. These days it is very understandable for tight hobby budgets. My issue though is time to play.

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Guys, I understand the instinctive reaction to the price and I know it's not going to be within some gaming budgets. Nevertheless, this is what the price needs to be for this kind of wargame to be made and it's worth asking what games you are comparing it to when deciding that the price is too high. If we compare cars to wargames, this is effectively a Ferrari. It does not cut corners, it is meticulously hand-crafted and no expense was spared in terms of development time and effort to bring it to perfection. This is not a mass-market "reasonably priced car". Similarly, this is close to the price of many mass-market console games these days, which have far better economies of scale than a niche wargame can achieve.

I'm truly sorry that this has put some of you off, but this is only $20 more than COTA and the quality and value of this release is IMHO higher, especially with the full editing tools included.

With that said, I'm sure there will be a sale at some point in the non-near future, but in the meantime the reality is that this is the price a wargame like this needs to sell at in order to make wargames like this possible. This is also the price of games like WITP AE and while we do release many games that are priced lower they generally have commensurately less development time and cost. Each game and developer has a different business model.

The model for this game is the highest possible quality and realism in every respect, from research on maps, scenarios and units to the performance of the AI and the general playability, stability, polish and documentation of the game. I don't think I've worked with any developers that put a higher emphasis on quality than Panther does and frankly the time it takes to do that also has a cost. I've seen many comments on other games that wished for better scenarios, better AI, better testing or better documentation or just generally higher quality. All of that is here, I don't think you will find a single rough edge, but the additional $20-$30 over many other game prices is what that costs in order for this to be a viable ongoing business plan for this series.

Regards,

- Erik

Well Erik - price is not a matter of judgement in some respects - you cannot charge simply what YOU think its worth - that has to meet up somewhere with what people are willing to pay. I would say you have missed that by a wide margin. I hate to say it but maybe if this is the price you have to charge to make a game like this then perhaps you have answered your own question.