Bren LMGs have no performance data

[FredSanford3]

I don't think Bren LMG's are active at the moment:

[FredSanford3]

We should get an Estab edit compilation thread going. I saw someone say something about M1 rifles, as well as the German rifles being unusable due low reliability- I changed mine from .04something to .99. Here's what I am using for an edited Bren LMG:

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Good work Franklin Nimitz.

Did you check the CotA estab data for the entries?

[Prince of Eckmühl]

And I believe that most of the other information that's needed is under the other tab:

[FredSanford3]

Actually I just checked Wikipedia, and gave it 'typical' LMG data. The 6mm of armor penetration is a gift of sorts. I think the estab engine allows for giving nominal armor penetration data, but I don't know if it means anything when in the Aper fire data table.

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Good work Franklin Nimitz.

Did you check the CotA estab data for the entries?

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Something that this application desperately needs is some sort of aggregate viewer, something in spreadsheet format perhaps.

I make that comment because it's just too darn easy to miss a value that's been entered incorrectly.

Did you notice that a big chunk of the Allied weapons data cites the EXACT same reliability value, including the M-1 rifle.

The Mauser, on the other hand, has something ridiculously low, and would have stood out like a sore-thumb in spreadsheet form because it's in such stark contrast to the reliability of similar weapons.

[FredSanford3]

I was thinking the same thing- maybe a family of performance charts- something that makes it easy to visually flag omissions or overutilization of copy/paste (e.g. reliability).

I always thought the engine overemphasized artillery, but they could at least give the poor german grunts a rifle that worked, and the Brits a LMG that shot. Poor bloody infantry can never catch a break...

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Something that this application desperately needs is some sort of aggregate viewer, something in spreadsheet format perhaps.

I make that comment because it's just too darn easy to miss a value that's been entered incorrectly.

Did you notice that a big chunk of the Allied weapons data cites the EXACT same reliability value, including the M-1 rifle.

The Mauser, on the other hand, has something ridiculously low, and would have stood out like a sore-thumb in spreadsheet form because it's in such stark contrast to the reliability of similar weapons.

[wodin]

This is a major issue I feel that needs to be addressed ASAP....you can't have these major weapons being ineffective....

Has Dave been informed?

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Hi Wodin,

I'm trying to find a freeware utility that'll allow us to view the estab .xml files in spreadsheet or .CSV format. IMO, that's essential because it's darn near impossible to identify goofy-stuff like this in the mountain of data that's presented in the EE GUI. Prima facia, all is well. It's only when someone goes digging in the editor for a specific function, that errors become evident. Were this not so, I have to believe that the errors would not have escaped the watchful eye of the developer and his playtesters. As I mentioned above, a HUGE percentage of the weapons in the game have the exact same "reliability" coefficient.  Something needs to be done, but it will likely require tools (which we currently don't have) and some serious elbow-grease.

[Chief Rudiger]

I too have baulked at the amount of info in the editor, and the look of the database behind it, and am afraid of the mistakes I’ve made and how they'll affect the game.

However, I am a technician working for my city's local government roads authority, managing street lighting, and we have an inventory and job management package that is a lot worse to look at than the Estab Editor. Similar to the Estab Editor, the street lighting package allows you to manipulate the database through a graphic user interface, which should make everything user friendly. The GUI is usefully if you want to look at each lamp post/job in detail, but for making sense of all the wood-for-the-trees we use a third party SQL based report generating package which pulls info out of the database onto a excel look-a-like report whose fields you specify. This can be exported to Excel proper and manipulated. Edits can then be merged with the database.

So, say for example you want to look at what faults have been reported against a certain type of lamp post, say really old steel ones, you would point your report at the inventory database and tell it to find all the old steel poles, then look at the job database and find all jobs raised against those poles. You would then specify the report fields as pole location, age, manufacturer, and job date, person who did the job, and cost of the job. Your report would not include the mountain of info associated with each to the poles, or the jobs, and help you get a better idea which old poles are becoming a maintainence nightmare etc. With the Estab editor, you would restrict your report fields to what was pertinent to your query, say having one report to check all the Force details are correct, another to check weapon details etc.

The package we use if called R&R Report Works, but I don't think you'd get it for cheaps, or on any torrent site. I also don't know how to point it at databases other than the default, but I believe it is possible and will have a try. I think many accountants use a similar kind of reporting package, I think called "Crystal". MS Access can produce similar report, if you know what you're doing with it, which I don't, but that might be a better solution seeing as most people have it.

[wodin]

Well I'm willing but I haven't got the knowledge to know what the value should be....

[Chief Rudiger]

Exactly my problem too. Maybe this is why games take so long to develop, play test and then cost so much... woops, should keep that for the price thread...

[wodin]

If the germans at present don't really have a decent main weapon then scenarios can't be playing out right at all at the minute....not sure whether it's worth playing anymore until this is looked at

[RedMike]

who is armed with a bren ?? the amis ?? the germans ?? captured usage ?? what ??

i think there is data in the estab pertaining to a possible upgrade for httr which has not been completed yet. in which case that is why you see bren guns with incomplete data.

on the other hand, other significant weaponry with questionable entries may need attention. if spotted please report to panther.

just my unofficial half farthing.

redmike...out

[wodin]

The M1 carbine and German rifles have problems aswell RedMike....also the Mg42 high rate of fire is I think about 50 rounds a minute....I'd imagine it should be more like 500...the highest rate of fire I came across in the high rate of fire catergory for an MG gun was 120....

[Arjuna]

see my comment on rates of fire here: tm.asp?m=2495592&mpage=1&#2495790

[wodin]

OK Dave I've read it...thanks for the reply...as I said maybe an option when on the defence for Max ROF in emergency would be useful then?

[Arjuna]

That already happens automatically - ie the rate of fire is increased if the enemy is very close.

[wodin]

Excellent

[daft]

ORIGINAL: Chief Rudiger

I too have baulked at the amount of info in the editor, and the look of the database behind it, and am afraid of the mistakes I’ve made and how they'll affect the game.

However, I am a technician working for my city's local government roads authority, managing street lighting, and we have an inventory and job management package that is a lot worse to look at than the Estab Editor. Similar to the Estab Editor, the street lighting package allows you to manipulate the database through a graphic user interface, which should make everything user friendly. The GUI is usefully if you want to look at each lamp post/job in detail, but for making sense of all the wood-for-the-trees we use a third party SQL based report generating package which pulls info out of the database onto a excel look-a-like report whose fields you specify. This can be exported to Excel proper and manipulated. Edits can then be merged with the database.

So, say for example you want to look at what faults have been reported against a certain type of lamp post, say really old steel ones, you would point your report at the inventory database and tell it to find all the old steel poles, then look at the job database and find all jobs raised against those poles. You would then specify the report fields as pole location, age, manufacturer, and job date, person who did the job, and cost of the job. Your report would not include the mountain of info associated with each to the poles, or the jobs, and help you get a better idea which old poles are becoming a maintainence nightmare etc. With the Estab editor, you would restrict your report fields to what was pertinent to your query, say having one report to check all the Force details are correct, another to check weapon details etc.

The package we use if called R&R Report Works, but I don't think you'd get it for cheaps, or on any torrent site. I also don't know how to point it at databases other than the default, but I believe it is possible and will have a try. I think many accountants use a similar kind of reporting package, I think called "Crystal". MS Access can produce similar report, if you know what you're doing with it, which I don't, but that might be a better solution seeing as most people have it.

What is it you want exactly? Once the reported bugs are ironed out, maybe me, The Plodder and DanO can get something going that is a bit more intuitive than Excel. An application to sort or provide different views of the Estab data wouldn't be too hard to code up if we're three devs working on it. Detail it a bit and hear what Dave has to say and I think we can get something done.