CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

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Chad Harrison
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CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

Hi all

Given the lack of other AAR's, and how much I enjoyed doing the last one, I thought that I would do another one. This time, I will play the tutorial scenario from the German perspective. If you read my other AAR, you know what that means. This means facing a determined, well supplied and well supported armored advance against my desperately outnumbered and outgunned troops. But, if we can learn something from it, then taking a beating by the AI was worth it, right? [:D]

I would wager that most people who either play this series, or who are looking at getting into it, will exclusively play against the AI. I for one fit into that category. So having a good AI is pretty critical then - especially in a game without 'hexes' - if that is who I am going to be playing against everytime. We all know that playing a human will always be atleast more interesting, and most likely more challenging, than playing any AI because you never know what they are going to do next. Totally and completely unpredictable. However, I for one really enjoy the AI in this game (and series). No, its not perfect - but neither am I. Yes, it will do crazy things sometimes - but so do I, and so do/did real world commanders. With that being said, I think the AI does a splendid job of giving you a unique and enjoyable play experience each time through.

[soapbox]

With many people on the fence because of the price (like my other AAR, please do not discuss the price in here), I wanted to do another AAR to try and show how rewarding this game is when played properly. This is not Halo. This is not Risk. This game is the closest most (all?) of us will get to knowing what it would be like to be a division/regimental commander. Sure you could spend two minutes giving a bunch of attack, move and defend orders and then watch days fly by without doing anything. But you are missing the point to this solid game. This is *not* that kind of game. This *is* the kind of game where you should be spending nearly as much time planning as you are playing. This *is* the kind of game where you look at your OOB, look at the map, and then go for a 45 minute walk to think about how you are going to deal with tomorrows attack. This *is* the kind of game that rewards solid planning and punishes sloppy ideas. It is a wargame for wargamers.

[/soapbox]

And with that, lets get to business.

DBeves
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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by DBeves »

This will be interesting to see ...
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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

January 5th, 1945
Day 1 - 0600

Now that I sit on the other side of the Our, I know that I likely face the impossible: stop the 4th Armored from getting to St. Vith. I have only one hope of doing so: holding the Americans at bay until my calvary arrives. And not just any old, regular calvary: the remnants of Kampfgruppe Peiper. But thats not until Day 3, 08:10. 50 hours. 50 hours of facing down tanks with infantry. 50 hours of dueling the American 105's howitzers with my 12cm mortars. 50 hours of facing 3:1 odds. And all this in the snow. Oh, and on foot. 50 hours.

Facing such odds, no sane commander could ever hope for anything but a purely defensive mission. If I leave my shallow foxholes, I will not only face direct fire from endless Sherman and Stuart tanks, but indirect fire from two full battalions of 105mm artillery. If I do move, it will have to be either under cover, or at night. Anything else will cause excessive casualties. For the next 50 hours atleast.

Like any good commander, the first thing to do is look at the map. After my last AAR, I am pretty familiar with this small map. While it is 100 square kilometeres, the action plays out in a very small corridor - or atleast it did for me. Also, I have to flip it all around now and look at it from a desperate defense perspective. Luckily, the Our is my greatest defense. Due to the extensive shelling and fighting throughout this area for the last month, only two bridges still stand over the Our - and to get to the second one you have to go over the first. What that means is that the *only* way for Allied armor is get to St Vith is to first capture and hold the bridge at Steinebruck. If that bridge falls, the Allied armor can choose a number of routes to St Vith. On top of the river directing the American attack, most of the map is also covered in dense pine woods that prevent motorized movement through them. In other words, with the Americans starting position, their armor can only cross a signle bridge, and then only follow one of three paths to St Vith. Of these three routes, I fully expect the AI to take the center route as it is littered with objectives and leads staright to the goad: St Vith. But they could take another, or split up between the three.

My objectives are the same as they were when I was attacking, although with some slightly different starting times:
1. Steinebruck Bridge - Active at start
2. Lommersweiler - Active at start
3. Breitfled - D2 03:00
4. St Vith - D2 06:00

Now that I know my map and my objectives, its time to take a look at our forces. The forces that will be facing down the 4th Armored Division alone for the next 50 hours.

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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

Now its time to take a look at our starting forces.

Its simple: the 27th Fusilier Rgt of the 12th VGD. Yup, thats it. And we are suppose to hold out for 50 hours?

The main line units are the I and II Battalion - each with three rifle companies and one heavy mortary platoon. The I Battalion in on a reverse slope, on the South bank of the Our river (200 or so meters from Steinebruck), while the II Battalion is in Lommersweiler. The reverse slope will both help and hurt the I Bn. It will help by forcing the Americans to close with them before they can engage them. It will hurt them due to the fact that once the Americans do close, we will most likely be facing superior firepower and manpower - not to mention the tanks. However, as I learned myslef, once they get that close, it is too close for them to bring down their 105's on us. All the while, the II Bn. will be able to direct their fire against the enemy while they directly attack the I Bn. Unfortunately, both battalions only have hand-held AT weapons - in other words, II Bn. will not be able to do anything about tanks assaulting I Bn. But their heavy machineguns will be able to engage both mounted and dismounted troops.

As for regimental units, I have a single company from the 12 PzJg Bn (towed, 12 guns). They are placed just West of Steinebruck, on the North side of the Our. Which is really a shame. This unit represents one of my best changes to do some damage against their armor. Once the armor and infantry units come within sight, I expect this unit to be immediately subjected to both direct and indirect fire. My only armor unit is the 1012 PzJg Abt which consits of six Stug III's. I also have two infantry gun platoons, and a light flak platoon. All in all a decent force, except when you consider that I am facing down the 4th Armored - alone. For 50 hours . . .





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henri51
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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by henri51 »

LOL...

I just finished doing that, and I come to post about it and here you are...[:D]

Well I DID get a marginal defeat with the Germans without trying too hard. I set the available units at the start to delay up to the crossroads N of the bridge, one from across the bridge and the other from the town. The bridge was crossed arond noon, but the town did not fall until the next day, and German units were still harrassing from the flanks.

Peiper only arrives at 8 AM on day 4, so I ordered him to assault St Vith without giving orders to specific battalions. It was not until 3 PM that the assault got under way, but by noon the US 35th and 51st were fighting for St Vith against the thrown together supply and HQ units from up North that I had sent down there to hold until Peiper arrived.

Since German supplies were from the East and Peiper came from the West, and since the supply unit from the North on the map edge was too close to St Vith to distribute supplies efficiently, the name of the game was lack of supplies.

The battle for St Vith was a bloodbath, and although the Germans suffered a marginal defeat, they destroyed over 150 US vehicles and both sides got over 1200 casualties.

The Germans can probably get a draw against the AI taking into account that they know that the unit holding the other objectives will probably not move, but objectively the Germans don't stand a chance against the overwhjelming US opposition.

Henri

Henri
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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

Now, lets talk about reinforcements. I keep talking about the cavalry arriving in 50 hours, but we do get some help before then.

This comes in the form II Bn 48th Grenadier Regiment. They will arive 24 hours from now - D2 06:05. Even better yet, they will arrive just to the North of St. Vith - about 500 meters from the city center. While they will certainly help, I will be facing a lot of armor by then, specifically CCA and CCB from the 4th Armored division. Have another line battalion to throw in the mix isnt really going to make a huge difference.

However, 50 hours from now comes my only chance for a huge difference. Kampfgruppe Peiper. It will come with I Bn 1st SS Pz Regiment (mix of Mk IV's and Mk V's), III Bn 2nd SS Pzfr Regiment (Mk IV's), various support units and . . . 501 SS Schwere Pz. They have this little tank called the PzKfw Tiger Ausf B, better known as the King Tiger. Now you see why I am looking forward to getting the next 50 hours over with? Peiper will arrive from the West, approximately four kilometers from St. Vith. However, 50 hours from now we will be facing CCA, CCB and CCR of the 4th Armored. They will be supported by numerous units, and four artillery battalions (three 105mm, one 155mm). King Tiger or not, it might not be enough. And if the AI manages to take St Vith like I did before 50 hours is up, they may face an impossible situation.

And with that, lets make some plans for how in the world we are going to survive the next 50 hours.

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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

Day 1 - 06:00

Now to make our plans.

My hope of the day is that the combined might of I and II Battalions will be enough to blunt CCA's crossing of the Our for the day, forcing the Americans to await CCB arrival in the morning. That would give me the night to reposition and reinforce, not to mention that I would get my first battalion of reinforcements. There is only a small, small chance of being able to hold back CCA but I think that I am going to have to try it. This will depend heavily on what the AI does. If he is overly aggressive and comes in piece-meal, I may be able to pull it off. Only time will tell on this.

But what to change or order? I will be honest, it is very tempting to leave everyone where they are and just let the game run. This is for a number of reasons. For one, the enemy is only about 750 meters away from my forward positions, meaning that I would not have a lot of time to move, or to dig in at a new position. Also, while it is dark right now, it will only be fully dark for another hour. Full light will be at 08:00 - two hours from now. There is fresh snow on the ground and my troops are tired. Having anticipated an attack at any moment, they have been kept alert all night by the sounds of approaching armor and false alarms. While they have had time to atleast dig in, that is all they have had time to do. Moving them now would mean leaving those foxholes and moving across snow covered fields in the dark - when they are already tired. But perhaps that would better than dying?

Here is what I know for sure: I Bn 27th Fusilier can not move. There is just too much risk. The Americans are ready to move at a moments notice. My troops however are not anticipating a move. It would take about 15 minutes to get orders to a individual company for them to move, and about 45 minutes for the entire battalion. That would be more than enough time for the forward elements of the Americans to close the distance if they attack immediately. My troops would then be in the open, tired and exposed by the rising sun. Just too much risk. As much as I hate it, I Bn is staying put, which includes my 75mm AT guns on the North bank. I will order the I Bn to hold until the last man and to not reoccupy their positions if pushed back. When they do fall back, I do not expect them to survive as they run from tanks through open, snow covered fields. If any do, I will withdraw them into the woods to the North and Northeast. I want to formulate a more specific plan for these men, but given the circumstance, I do not see any other options. Their sacrifice is the only way we can even attempt to survive the next 50 hours.

That brings us to II Bn. They are on the front slope of a gradual hill that climbs away from the Our. That gives them excellent fire positions against the Americns coming down to the Our on the opposite side of the valley. While they are far enough away from the Our that they could potentailly move, doing so would leave their prepared positions and worse yet, first light may catch them still trying to move up or down the slope they currently sit on. I am sure the American 105's would appreciate us doing that. So, much like the I Bn, as much as I hate it, I see no other choice than to leave them where they are. If we only had another hour or two, we would have had time to reposition and dig new fox holes. But, as with all combat, you have to deal with what you are given.

Even though II Bn will stay put, at the first sign of I Bn cracking significantly, I am starting a general withdraw of II Bn. Obviously this will not be all at once. Rather, I will pull out my mortorized units first (1012 PzJg Abt and 3 Coy 12 PzJg Bn), followed by individual rifle companies. I will begin to reposition them along the central route to St Vith. If it comes to this on Day 1, these will be temporary blocking positions only.

Again, the only hope I see in pulling this off is keeping CCA on the Southern bank of the Our all day. If they get across in force, I Bn will be destroyed and II Bn will be in a bad situation since they will be heavily engaged by that point and withdrawing will either be impossible or interdicted. If that does happen, all the King Tigers in the world will not be enough to push the *entire* 4th Armored Division around.

The next 50 hours will decide. But its the first six of those that worries me . . .



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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

ORIGINAL: DBeves

This will be interesting to see ...

Those were my thoughts exactly. Impossible odds really. Two Bn's against the 4th Armored Division? [X(]
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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

ORIGINAL: henri51

LOL...

I just finished doing that, and I come to post about it and here you are...[:D]

Well I DID get a marginal defeat with the Germans without trying too hard. I set the available units at the start to delay up to the crossroads N of the bridge, one from across the bridge and the other from the town. The bridge was crossed arond noon, but the town did not fall until the next day, and German units were still harrassing from the flanks.

Peiper only arrives at 8 AM on day 4, so I ordered him to assault St Vith without giving orders to specific battalions. It was not until 3 PM that the assault got under way, but by noon the US 35th and 51st were fighting for St Vith against the thrown together supply and HQ units from up North that I had sent down there to hold until Peiper arrived.

Since German supplies were from the East and Peiper came from the West, and since the supply unit from the North on the map edge was too close to St Vith to distribute supplies efficiently, the name of the game was lack of supplies.

The battle for St Vith was a bloodbath, and although the Germans suffered a marginal defeat, they destroyed over 150 US vehicles and both sides got over 1200 casualties.

The Germans can probably get a draw against the AI taking into account that they know that the unit holding the other objectives will probably not move, but objectively the Germans don't stand a chance against the overwhjelming US opposition.

Henri

Interesting indeed. Sounds like there is a chance - a slim one though.

I guess it all comes down to how aggressive the Allied played is. If the Allied player knew that all he faced was two Bn's of infantry, he could push through at the bridge and then make a head long dash to St Vith without any worries. But, if he played it safe and took his time crossing the Our, and took him time getting to St Vith, they may arrive at the same time as Peiper.

I find it interesting that you moved some of your original troops. Maybe I am just too paranoid, but only having 1 hour of darkness to reposition in the snow worries me all sorts of ways.

Guess I will find out soon enough how it works out! [:D]
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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by drizzt73 »

Looking forward to seeing how this plays out. I am interested in this game as I have Highway to the Reich and COTA and like the style of play.

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henri51
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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by henri51 »

Interesting indeed. Sounds like there is a chance - a slim one though.

I guess it all comes down to how aggressive the Allied played is. If the Allied player knew that all he faced was two Bn's of infantry, he could push through at the bridge and then make a head long dash to St Vith without any worries. But, if he played it safe and took his time crossing the Our, and took him time getting to St Vith, they may arrive at the same time as Peiper.

I find it interesting that you moved some of your original troops. Maybe I am just too paranoid, but only having 1 hour of darkness to reposition in the snow worries me all sorts of ways.

Guess I will find out soon enough how it works out! [:D]


I figured that casualties would be smaller if I let my units fall back with a delay command, and that they might delay the enemy longer than by making a stand (after all, that is what the delay command is for, isn't it?), and make a final stand at the intersection above the bridge which is the choke point for US supplies . The units in the town will not fall back until the US reaches the town, so the Americans will have to push back two successive groups that are using delay tactics. I thought there was a danger that a stand on the original positions would fall much quicker and leave the road to St Vith open. And I don't have a problem with orders delays since I can give my delay orders at any time in advance. So we will see from your AAR.

OTOH when Peiper arrived I just gave an attack order towards the St Vith objective to the top HQ because I had to go out for dinner and didn't have time to prepare an offensive. I am sure you can come up with somewhat more sophisticated strategies for Peiper.

Henri
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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

ORIGINAL: henri51

I figured that casualties would be smaller if I let my units fall back with a delay command, and that they might delay the enemy longer than by making a stand (after all, that is what the delay command is for, isn't it?), and make a final stand at the intersection above the bridge which is the choke point for US supplies . The units in the town will not fall back until the US reaches the town, so the Americans will have to push back two successive groups that are using delay tactics. I thought there was a danger that a stand on the original positions would fall much quicker and leave the road to St Vith open. And I don't have a problem with orders delays since I can give my delay orders at any time in advance. So we will see from your AAR.

OTOH when Peiper arrived I just gave an attack order towards the St Vith objective to the top HQ because I had to go out for dinner and didn't have time to prepare an offensive. I am sure you can come up with somewhat more sophisticated strategies for Peiper.

Henri

The delay command is one that I have never really played around with in the past, and probably wont do so this time around either. I have always just used the withdraw or move command when needed. One of these days I will play around with delay . . . wait, is that what the manual is for? [:D]

Oh, Peiper will be getting more than a single command. If I am waiting 50 hours for him to get here, I am putting him to use. Whether or not that will be better than just a single group command . . . well, that we will have to find out [;)]
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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

Day 1 - 07:00

At precisely 06:00 this morning, we gave the official orders: stand fast in your current positions and prepare to repulse the American assault. To II Bn and supporting units, we told them to not hold back with ammo usuage - if you have a target, give it all youve got. However, we told them that if they do fall back, do not retake your old positions - we will re-route you to a new defensive position. For I Bn, the news was the same, except the following grim order was added: hold to the last man. Our entire defense depends on the I Bn holding for as long as possible. But we can only hope that atleast some of them will be here to greet the cavalry in 50 hours . . .

With the orders given, silence followed. Until 06:21. The unique distinction of spotting the first enemy went to 2 Co. I Bn - there is no doubt now, they are coming.

Immediately we hit them with both our platoons of heavy (12cm) mortars. While it was a short firing mission, they infantry unit was in the open and moving - too tempting of a target to resist. The unit disappeared immediately under the barage. With the darkness still lingering, who knows if any signifcant damage was done. Maybe this will be possible after all?

With that came the tide of infantry troops down towards the Our. Mission after mission of 12cm was called against them, but there are too many targets. Luckily, they are not shooting - yet. And their artillery is slient - so far.

Now it is 07:00, first daylight is upon us. No more hiding in the shadows. In the darkness they have closed the distance to the I Bn. So many troops against our few defenders. 49 more hours . . .



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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

D1 - 08:00

Disaster!

While the sun is finally bringing some warmth to our snow covered battlefield, it has also brought a starting truth: the entire balance of CCA 4th Armored Division is directly assaulting I Bn! Against such odds, how long can our troops resist this assault? Unfortunately, our brave troops have answered that question: about 30 minutes. For a moment, I thought maybe, just maybe. But as CCA pushed closer and closer to my troops, it became clear: there was no hope.

The first to crack was also the first to fight: 2 Co. After engaging multiple units at point blank range, they finally retreated to the safety of 1 Co. They left in decent order - enough so that I was able to order them to continue their withdraw to the East until they were out of sight from the enemy. They began to pass through 1 Co, still in decent order for a withdraw. It was at this critical moment that the artillery started to hit them. What started as a retreat, then a withdraw, has now become a rout. Heavy casulties have been sustained. But, they are in the woods, out of sight, and at about 50% strength. They may still be of some use to us . . .

Once 2 Co. threw in the towel, HQ Co. and 3 Co. were soon to follow. Within the space of a few minutes, my line went from holding, to stretching, to broken. There are even reports coming in from 3 Co. that some of their troops are starting to surrender.

Disaster has hit us hard.

But the fight must go on. The good news is that our only armor (StuG III's) have been firing for the last hour against the Allied armor. It is too hard to tell if any damage is being done - but they are shooting.

Now the real question is: what to do?

I have to make the Americans pay for their crossing. It is now impossible to stop their crossing, but I can still make them bleed for it. We must hold the line just a little longer . . .

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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

D1 - 09:00

Time to manage the crisis.

Lets deal with the obvious first: I Bn's participation in this morning conflict is over. Despite a brave fight, I Bn has been scattered and split. Currently, 1 and 2 Co has hiding in a stream bed to the East of their original positions. They are out of sight and trying to regain command and control of their troops. The good news is that these troops number 134 men. They made it out with a decent number of their support weapons, included 5 Panzerschrecks. We have given them orders to stay in the ravine until nightfall. If they leave the ravine, there is no covered route to safety - whcih means they will become friends with the 105's again. Their only chance is that no American units stray over there . . .

Hq Co and our mortar platoon have merged and are attempting to withdraw North to Breitfeld. However, they are still drawing heavy fire from the advancing American troops. We have ordered them to move as quickly as possible to Breitfeld, but so far, their movement has been interdicted by both direct and indirect fire. They do still have four heavy mortars in tow though . . .

Lastly, 3 Co is reporting that they have gathered 70 surviving men in the West river bed of the Our. Much like 1 and 2 Co, their only hope is to wait until nightfall and then move out. However, their chances of not being spotted in their current location are slim.

The good news is that 1 Co 12 PzJg Bn is saving the day - for the moment. They are making a heroic stand on the North bank of the Our. With all 12 of their Pak 40's firing both AP and HE shells directly into the enemy - at point blank range I might add - they have stalled the enemies advance. All we can hope is that this will buy us a few more precious hours so that we can finish withdrawing I Bn, and attempt to get some blocking positions setup.

1012 PzJg Abt is still firing away at the oncoming armor. With only six tanks, I wonder how long they will last once the Shermans turn their attention to them. But for the moment, they have not taken any losses.

All in all, things are bad, but not lost. However, the next 47 hours are not looking good . . .

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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

D1 - 11:00

We received our last transmission from 3 Co I Bn at 10:14 - they were being heavily engaged and were going to surrender. Thats our first line unit to be lost today. We dont have many more to carry their weight. For the last two hours, 1 and 2 Co I Bn were able to avoid any losses. They are not reporting any units in their vicinity - atleast that they know of. But they are so close, it would not take much for a few Americans to stray over a couple hundred meters. We can only hope that doesnt happen.

Unfortunately, our brave Pak 40 gunners have also fallen back now. The Americans used their 105's against them, along with direct tank fire. They held on for a few more critical minutes before withdrawing. As these AT guns are critical, we immediately ordered them to withdraw to Breitfeld. They are attempting to do so, but are not currently under control and are taking heavy losses. If we can only salvage a few guns, it would still help.

My StuG's have pulled out of town and are now preparing an ambust South of Breitfeld. Also, 6 Co II Bn is also preparing to set up another ambush between the bridgehead and Breitfeld. This means that I have two good order units setting up roadblocks against the inevitable rush of armor later today.

As for the American attack, it is still stalled for the most part, but they are starting to move out. With no units in their way, Steinebruck will fall any moment. The first five hours of this day have not been good.

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RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by Chad Harrison »

D1 - 13:00

Steinebruck has fallen. The Americans have not only a bridgehead, but enough momentum for an immediate attack on Lommersweiler by what appears to be the 51st Arm Inf Bn. While we were successful in stalling their attack momentarily, CCA is now on the move once again. II Bn is holding on as long as they can, but the two companies remaining intown - 5 and 7 - have already retreated. However, they were able to get back to their positions and continue to the fight. As the 51st draws closer, the only refield is that the 105's will be unable to help. However, its a fools hope to think that they will be able to hold on much longer.

If there is any one thing that we have learned so far this morning, it is that the American artillery have dominated us greatly. Their FO's bring down immediate destruction against our stationary units, our moving units, even our routing units. There seems to be no end to their limit of shells. And without any medium or heavy artillery of our own, there is nothing we can do about it.

If you can call it good news, we have continued to maintain radio contact with 1 and 2 Co I Bn, and they are now in good order - exausted and in a dire situation - but they finally have their troops back in fighting order. We have some staff working on seeing if there is a chance to sneak them out before nightfall. It may be possible, but being detected - whether from moving or by staying put - would certainly mean destruction to these fragile units.

Another hope is forming South of Brietfeld. A ambush is being prepared along the most likely route the Americans will take. We are under no dilusions that it will hold the enemy. It is only to delay, and bleed the enemy. Every tank or halftrack we can destroy now is one less that Peiper will have to deal with later.

Now we will see just how much fight II Bn has left in them, and how many more hours they can buy us. We still have 43 hours on our own.

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OlegHasky
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Hamburg

RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by OlegHasky »

I figured that casualties would be smaller if I let my units fall back with a delay command, and that they might delay the enemy longer than by making a stand (after all, that is what the delay command is for, isn't it?), and make a final stand at the intersection above the bridge which is the choke point for US supplies . The units in the town will not fall back until the US reaches the town, so the Americans will have to push back two successive groups that are using delay tactics. I thought there was a danger that a stand on the original positions would fall much quicker and leave the road to St Vith open

Henri revealed the only resonable ´sneaky´ thing to those disastrous positions that comes in mind with I Bn You were asking for. He did it automaticly, and naturally. As in oposite to AI.
In my mind it is the initial positioning of German I Bn, that is a disaster. The US troops are in fact close enough to soupport any arguments dismising any pull back back. But he done it.
And from his words it payed off more than 2 hour dely resulted in a "disaster" - as you have putted it. This extra hour that the IBn troops gained wich such heavy result will bounce back later as a -5 hours for the germans.
Again, I understand the realistic arguments about leaving the foxholes with such close range to the enemy at the start. But Im curious if you would do the same thing again now.
If You do - thats fine. In this case (with the start positioning arguments) it is one variant uptight in a clamp of roleplaying the designed scenario.
I wonder how many humans would use this variant, when realy found themselfs on the side of the Germans, trying seriously to pull out something from this defence (like Henri for examp) . I think a good % would reject the resonable arguments, and go for the second. And heres the difference between AI and humans. AI is not able to do that. And it is one of the main borders of the machine that have impact on the game....´s


Ask for current situation.
I wonder if I will see AI bypassing Lommerswiler from the West with tough, and determined armoured move, and cutting it of from the North. I really would like to see that. But I dubt I will.
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daft
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat May 18, 2002 4:05 pm

RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by daft »

ORIGINAL: OlegHasky


Ask for current situation.
I wonder if I will see AI bypassing Lommerswiler from the West with tough, and determined armoured move, and cutting it of from the North. I really would like to see that. But I dubt I will.

You mean going directly for Breitfeld via Neidingen? Wouldn't that put them in danger of ending up in a slow slog up the smaller roads to the West, giving the Germans ample time to do a local retreat from Lommersweiler and re-arrange the forces at Breitfeld to counter the new threat? Considering the numerical advantage the Americans hold here, isn't the "best bet" a quick push up the largest road considering the Germans are positioned quite badly?. At least the I battalion is positioned quite badly at the start. You might be right though. A flanking move to the west might be the best option for the Americans. Just thinking out loud here. :)
OlegHasky
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Hamburg

RE: CO - BftB: Tutorial AAR - The Other Side

Post by OlegHasky »

You mean going directly for Breitfeld via Neidingen? Wouldn't that put them in danger of ending up in a slow slog up the smaller roads to the West, giving the Germans ample time to do a local retreat from Lommersweiler and re-arrange the forces at Breitfeld to counter the new threat? Considering the numerical advantage the Americans hold here, isn't the "best bet" a quick push up the largest road considering the Germans are positioned quite badly?. At least the I battalion is positioned quite badly at the start. You might be right though. A flanking move to the west might be the best option for the Americans. Just thinking out loud here. :)

No, Just instead rolling straight only for the push on the objective (giving the Germans opportunity to pull back from the town) Try to focus on the crosroad NorthWest. Than perhaps using the same bow root, send Inf to those forests North-east of the town overwatching the railroad (making German Bn Northern root from Lommerswiler cutted off)
Chad showed that his retreat from the city is sopose to be North, to cut the main road in three points, making an obstacle for the US to advance forward quickly. Good one
.But while Chad had settled within the secondary objective in whole stranght (Maybe anticipating that the AI could not be capable to lunch such move in strenght). Risking... So its possible to prevent future problems.


The cutt of could prevent such obstacle
And till the American reinforcements will arrive. The closed, cutted, and surrounded German Bn will find it hard to any try of fighting their way out.,
So Americans can arrange a good force forward, with very less oposition now to bother Breitfield, lefting only enough force to overwatch German Bn in Lommerswiler.

That is the acceptable good opportunity I see from the situation. And its far from briliant - Its just seem obvious. Just wondering if AI will recognize the opportunity too.


P.s.- sorry for the edits
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