Scenario start stance of defending troops

[Conflux]

Just playing Olympus Foothills of the Gods, defending as the Allies and wondered why the AI would not bombard with any of my arty or mortars. Checked this out on a simpler scenario (try Tanks at Platamon as Allies) and found that the problem appears to be that at the start all defending troops have the order "waiting" instead of "defending". This means they do just that and will not bombard. They will of course use direct fire and infantry units "waiting" will attempt to regain their positions if forced to retreat.

To test - start Tanks at Platamon as allies and highlight either the mortar platoon or the FA Battery. You will notice their orders are "waiting". Run the scenario on fast and just leave it to run, you will notice not a single bombard mission and no arty ammo is used (unless they fire the occasional round of direct fire).

If you take the arty under direct control you can bombard of course, and after your first fire order has finished you will notice that the unit goes to "on call" and the AI will use it as it wishes. Set the unit to "reattach" and it will go straight back to "waiting" and do nothing.

This also affects supply. Leave the scenario running until 2300 ir so and you will also notice that while the Base receives its supplies, no supplies will be sent out to anyone 'cos the base also has a "waiting" order.

I attempted to work round this and tried a defend in situ order to the Bn. Fine so far as it goes, all the units then went to "defend" and the arty went to "on call" but the engineer unit left its entrenchments and moved to another position next to Bn HQ. Problem with the "in situ" order is that while the arty will bombard under AI control, if an infantry unit is forced to retreat then it will stay where it retreated to 'cos it has an "in situ" order! This means they then have to be micro-managed back into their entrenchments - may be practical in a small scenarion but impossible in a large one. As is taking every mortar platoon and battery under direct control so they will bombard and then remembering to reattach them when the parent Bn is givien new orders that will cancel out the "waiting" order.

Back to supply, if you leave the scenario running 'til 2300 again (using the in situ workaround), you will now notice that supplies go out to units as they should. Maybe this also explains some of the problems reported with no supplies getting through - you have to set all defending supply bases to defend in situ otherwise they won't do anything untill they get new orders.

As a third test - start the scenario as the Germans and you will notice that all the defenders start moving around. Stop the scenario after a short while (30 mins will do) and surrender. When you look at the Allies positions you will find that most of them will have left their entrenchments and decided to take up new positions - some, like the engineers, might even have left the area completely. This must be because the Allied AI as soon as the scenario starts has given a "defend" order so forcing a replan. Consequence of course is that all the hard work of the scenario designer in setting up a defence can be wasted.

Lastly, this problem dates back to HTTR (if not to RDOA) as well. I noticed this in one of the Nijmegan scenarios and wondered why most of the German bridge guards immediately left their bridges to attack the Groesbeek Heights. I made a mod and changed all the infantry units to static ones to solve the problem. Unfortunately I didn't realise its significance at the time.

Any thoughts?
Martin

[Arjuna]

Martin,
 
Well yes there is an onus on the player to give his forces some order at the start of the game. Otherwise they will just go on hold and do nothing. The simplest fix if you can't be bothered to work out an initial plan is to just give a def3end in-situ order to the onMapBoss. Now this should result in all units defending in their current position. They will stay put unless forced to retreat and yes if they are retreated they won't try and regain their position. There was a bug in the initial release that sometimes saw units move with a defend in-situ order ( other than when retreating/routing ). This was fixed for Patch 1. If you have patch 1 iunstalled and still see this behaviour please send me a saved game where this repeats and I'll look into it further.

[Conflux]

Many thanks for the swift reply - I really appreciate the support this game gets and having the designer explain the reasons behind the mechanics makes this the best gaming experience I've ever had,

My point, however, is that if you are a lazy player like me and don't give a defend in situ order to the onmap boss then this might explain some of the supply problems people experience. I have noticed that if supply bases are given a defend in situ order at the start they will recieve supplies from the SEP, but if the onmap boss is left in "waiting" mode, then when the 0600 or 1800 supply determination phase starts all supply lines are lost and nothing wil get through to the units. If the onmap boss is then given new orders, at the next supply determination phase supply lines are re-established. In other words if your onmap boss is airdropped in as a reinforcement (it comes in, in "waiting" mode), lands in a safe area and the player decides to leave it be, then as a result there will be no lines of supply - both the base and its superior HQ must have some sort of orders for supply lines to be established and supply to get through. This is not a problem but can lead to the unwary player who does not understand the imortance of this running out of supply - like me!

As for units moving this appears to be Tanks at Patamon specific. Give the Bn a defend in situ order and the location marker will not accept the actual location of the HQ but moves to the nearest 'suitable' location a few hundred metres away - for ome reason. As the HQ has to move a bit, so do its supports, the engineers and the arty bty - its organic units stay put. This is not an issue and is not important. I have tried both Olympus, Foothills of the Gods and First Clash at Veve, given the onmap boss the in situ defend and everyone stays put, supply lines in place, bags of pluck getting through, mortars etc bombard and all ok.

Again, many thanks for your help and I'm off to the Kliedi Pass to give those Jerries a real pasting!

Cheers

[RayWolfe]

ORIGINAL: mgfoster
Again, many thanks for your help and I'm off to the Kliedi Pass to give those Jerries a real pasting!

And when you get there, don't forget to use the new option that was introduced in the patch. You know, the [Bombard with Bags of Pluck] button.

Ray

Arjuna, this did get into the final candidate, didn't it?

[Arjuna]

Ray,
 
You really are a wolf in sheep's clothing. [;)]