Game mechanics questions

[BMD]

Just bought the game, and I'm struggling a bit with how to make the most of my units:

Unit footprint:
- Is cover, LOS and range calculated from unit centre or edge of footprint? My theory so far (based only on quick LOS-tests) is that units are treated as points except when under artillery barrages, where the % of the unit footprint that is covered by the bombard footprint is multiplied by the % of the bombardment footprint that covers the unit . Is this correct?

Supply:
The manual says this:
"If accepted, a transport column is raised [...].A supply route is determined and a Supply Transport Event scheduled.
To reduce the processor load, the transport column is not managed like a regular unit. So it does not move along the route each minute. Rather, when its scheduled Supply Transport Event occurs it reviews the situation at that time and determines whether or not it can get through to the unit. If not, it will abandon and try to return to the Base. If it can get through, it determines any losses due to enemy threats to the route and deducts these from the assigned personnel, transport and supplies. It then delivers the supplies to the unit ( converting ammo into actual rounds as appropriate ).
[...]
It then determines if it can return safely to the Base ( ie there is a safe valid route ). If so, it schedules another event at which time its personnel, transport and any undelivered supplies will be absorbed back into the Depot. If not, it will either wait around, provided no enemy units are about, or be lost. If it waits around, it will schedule another event at which time it will again assess if it can return."

So, to see if I got it right:
1-Unit reports supply need (time until it reaches depot calculated based on distance?)
2-Depot schedules a Supply Transport Event (STE).
3-Casualties in STE calculated

Now for the questions:
- Does this mean the STE moves the trucks from supply dump to receiving unit instantaneously?
- Do supply columns use "quickest" or "avoidance" routes?
- Interdiction fires: If you set a road under continous, slow bombardment, does that kill/stop any supply trucks passing by?



Great game by the way

[BMD]

Oh, and another thing: When it comes to AFVs, guns and penetration data - is there any way of finding out how far away a particular gun can hurt a particular tank at which angle?

[BMD]

Anyone?
 
Is it because I ask clumsily, because you don't know or just because it's uninteresting?
 
For the footprint question, I would think knowing where to place units to get good cover and LOS to be a fairly important question to any palyer.
 
And the supply part: Whew, I'm guessing I'm not the only one who's gotten my supply trucks shot up. Some tips on how the abstraction works would go a long way in removing the frustration factor and increasing our abilities to work _with_ the system in stead of against it as at least I'm doing right now.
 
Example: I send an armoured unit on a quick mission to block a retreating enemy. Of course the AI chooses that exact time to top off their supply and all supply trucks are gunned down delivering tea and biscuits to already well fed troops. If I knew more exactly how the supply algorithm worked, I could have timed it so that wouldn't have had to happen. As it is, I feel I can never move any of my units into a momentarily dangerous supply situation without risking the trucks as I don't want all my supply trucks shot up on the first day of a several-day operation.
 
I'm really hoping someone with a little more experience could give me a hint on this one. I was really looking forward to the supply simulation in this game, but without knowing how to work with it, it's just frustrating.

[simovitch]

BMD, the people who would answer this the best might have overlooked your inquiry because they are feverishly trying to get the patch out[;)]. I'll give it a shot to the best of my knowledge.

For the footprint question, I would think knowing where to place units to get good cover and LOS to be a fairly important question to any palyer.

Cover, LOS and range is determined from the center of the unit icon. Not sure on the bombardment/footprint effect exactly, but I think the observations you state will serve you well in the game.

Also, there isn't any data (that I know of) available in the game to give the players instant penetration (% kill) information. I agree that a general idea, or way of figuring it out would be nice. Range, and side/rear footprint facing for the firing unit and the target does have an effect on kill chances.

If I knew more exactly how the supply algorithm worked, I could have timed it so that wouldn't have had to happen. As it is, I feel I can never move any of my units into a momentarily dangerous supply situation without risking the trucks as I don't want all my supply trucks shot up on the first day of a several-day operation.

The movement of supply from the dumps to the units is not instantaneous. It travels a "safest-avoidance" path, and the supply trucks will be interdicted by enemy units within LOS and range of the path. I don't think indirect fire on a supply path for a unit not in the LOS of the path will have an effect (nice rule though...)

The supply algorithms are being revammped a bit for the patch. But here are some theads that may help you out:

THREAD 1

THREAD 2

hope this helps.

[JeF]

Hi,

though I don't pretend I know everything about those questions

ORIGINAL: BMD
Unit footprint:
- Is cover, LOS and range calculated from unit centre or edge of footprint? My theory so far (based only on quick LOS-tests) is that units are treated as points except when under artillery barrages, where the % of the unit footprint that is covered by the bombard footprint is multiplied by the % of the bombardment footprint that covers the unit . Is this correct?

It's mostly my understanding as well : cover, LOS, range are calculated from unit center and the 100x100m map square below it decides the terrain type the unit occupies, as noted in the data tab.
You're right about artillery using the footprint of the unit. I think it covers all combat routines as well.

I usually let the tacAI decide about those things. I don't micro-manage to that level.

- Does this mean the STE moves the trucks from supply dump to receiving unit instantaneously?

I think so. But the time between the creation of the STE when the transport column is formed and the trigger of the STE when the transport column arrives at destination is estimated by the travel time along the supply route, plus loading and unloading times, efficiency of the Base and requesting unit...

Have a look at the corresponding question in the FAQ

It is exacltly as if the game was keeping track of each column along the route. The column losses due to ennemy firepower is assessed only once and not continuously though.

- Do supply columns use "quickest" or "avoidance" routes?

I suppose they are avoidance routes. I would have done it this way anyway.

- Interdiction fires: If you set a road under continous, slow bombardment, does that kill/stop any supply trucks passing by?

Not to my knowledge. Only direct firepower along the route affects the transport columns.

Oh, and another thing: When it comes to AFVs, guns and penetration data - is there any way of finding out how far away a particular gun can hurt a particular tank at which angle?

No. Not in game at least. The data available in the ScenMaker Estab tabs can prove usefull though : for each gun, there is a table with accuracy and armour penetration at different ranges. Now, there is no indication about angles and facing. Anyway, in this case, facing should be abstracted : not all tanks in a company are facing the same way.
Frankly, I don't take care of such details. The Intel reports are usually too bad to effectively guess the real equipment.

I hope this helps,

JeF.

[BMD]

Thanks [:)] Very helpful. I'll try a new game and see if I can put it into practice first thing tomorrow. (Today is + + - day [:)])

Hope I didn't sound too negative. CotA seems to be by far the best game I've ever found for simulating warfare at this scale. I guess the fact that the game itself seems so good contributed to my frustration at not understanding the mechanics of it [:)]

Really looking forward to the BFTB and russian front add-ons by the way.

[Golf33]

ORIGINAL: BMD

Just bought the game, and I'm struggling a bit with how to make the most of my units:

Unit footprint:
- Is cover, LOS and range calculated from unit centre or edge of footprint?

Not quite either. LOS is based on near edges of the footprint. It is hard to see this in the game because enemy units are shown in their reported positions, rather than their actual positions, so you can't just run an LOS tool from the front of your unit to the front of the enemy and be sure of seeing them. Cover is always calculated based on the unit footprint. If you select a unit, and look on the Gen tab, you'll see what terrain types it occupies. Each terrain type occupied by the unit has an influence in proportion to how much of the unit footprint is in that type of terrain. Range is calculated from three locations: front edge of the footprint, centre of the unit, and rear edge of the footprint. Weapons are distributed across the whole footprint, so if only the front edge is in range for rifles, potentially only 1/3 of the rifles in the unit will fire.

Oh, and another thing: When it comes to AFVs, guns and penetration data - is there any way of finding out how far away a particular gun can hurt a particular tank at which angle?

As JeF says, only in the scenmaker. AFV armour values are averaged between turret and hull and adjusted for slope to be equivalent thickness at 30 degrees. Gun penetration values are for armour at 30 degrees.

Regards
Steve

[Arjuna]

BMD,
 
First I'm sorry for not replying to this sooner. But I completely missed this thread..must have been one of those days. Thanks to all who replied and especially to Steve ( Golf33 ) for giving the right answers.
 
Re supply. Things don't happen instantaneously at any stage in resupply. Once a unit raises aresupply request there is a delay before the Depot receives it. It then gets placed in a queue. After a while it will get processed. If at the time it is unsafe to despatch a transport column ( TC ) it will be suspended for an hour and then reviewed. Once processed, a TC raised and despatched an event is created for the TC's arrival. This will be some time ahead depending on the route and enemy interference and the effectiveness of the Depot and receiving unit.
 
At the designated arrival time another check is made of the route and losses taken due to enemy direct fire along it. This may destroy the column or reduce it. The supplies are transferred to the receiving unit and then another event raised to cover the return of the TC. If the route back to the Depot is blocked, then it will wait around for an hour ( in which time it may suffer more losses ) and try again. Once the TC returns to the Depot it is merged back into the Depot. Typically the durations involved are measured in hours. Units typically receive resupply some two to fours after requesting.
 
At the moment we don't factor in indirect fire into the TC's potential losses. This would add a fair bit of processing and always be a vague abstraction unless we record every fire anywhere along the route from the time of despatch to delivery and estimate which of these would have come close to the trucks. If we handles the TCs as actual units, rather than abstract them as events, we could have done so, but for processing reasdons we opted against this approach. Maybe when we have a lot more grunt we can do it this way.