Scenario making

[springel]

I recently rediscovered this game, and I looked a bit at the scenario tools.

I was pondering with the idea of making a scenario (series) about the May 1940 airborne invasion by the Germans in Holland. It was kind of a mini Market Garden event where German parachute and air-transported troops had to take control of the numerous bridges from the South into the hart of Holland towards the Hague, after which a small tank force would race in to take control of the residence.

It failed, similarly to Market Garden, and lead to the bombardment of Rotterdam.

But before I start on such a rather large task, I would like to ask if there would be any principal problems with changing the setting to 1940?

[Arjuna]

IIRC someone was working on a scenario based on a portion of this campaign. If not for HTTR then for COTA. I apologise for the fact that the forum search is broken ( c'mon Matrix, we need this fixed ). Can I suggest you scroll through the respective subForums for modding.

[Arjuna]

Oh and no problem with the setting at all.

In terms of scenario making you may find it easier to use BFTB which comes with an estab editor that will allow you to create your own 1940 unit estabs. Just a suggestion.

[springel]

So I cannot make completely new units in HTTR?

They will always have to be one of the existing units?

That would not work for this 1940 german paratroop scenario.

All that is possible in BFTB?
Can you build a completely new force?

[Arjuna]

You can make new units but they must use one of the existing estabs ( eg German 1944 Inf Coy ). With BFTB you can make new estabs. So yes you can build completely new forces.

[Lieste]

Don't know if you also have COTA, but the Estabs in that are more suitable for 1940 style scenarios, although they may lack a few specific types culled before the operations in the Balkans in the spring of 1941.
Importing/creating the maps should be fairly easy, although I don't have HTTR to check. (RDOA, COTA and BFTB only).

IMO if you needed to it would be better to purchase BfTB rather than COTA, as it has the Estab editor, giving far more options for creativity/experimentation.

[springel]

I am currently trying out the BFTB demo, and I like very much what I see.

It would be hard to model 1940 Dutch troops on anything from HTTR (bicycle troops..., gun boats)

Talking about the latter: would you be able to edit the effects of the movement-card on newly created units, or is there only foot/motorised? Those bicycle troops can move fairly fast on roads, but they can also carry their bicycles through a piece of foot-only area.

It wouldn't be terribly important, but I am just curious.

Also, can you create new terrain types with their own movement/combat numbers? I Probably don't need that for Holland (in the sense of Western Netherlands).

[Lieste]

I know you can change the appearance, visibility/cover modifiers and movement rates for each existing terrain type*. You are currently limited to global 'foot' or 'motorised' movement rates, but you could probably increase the maximum movement rate of bicycle troops on roads by editing their on road speeds high, and the off-road speed to a walking pace, then ensure that movement rates are capped to a reasonable overall movement rate for the unit as a 'foot' type.

I haven't really paid it much attention, but I don't notice a lot of difference between the foot and bicycle troops (or cavalry/mounted troops) in game yet.

*In all games (except possibly RDOA?), using the mapmaker utility.

[springel]

Lieste, I am currently experimenting with the HTTR tools, and I am beginning to understand how it all works together. Already produced my first little working test scenari.

It is funny when you play the thing seeing what your troops think what they are up against, when you know what it really is. A measly security company appears as assault gun and engineers, etc

Anyway, I am investigating your suggestions for bicycle troop: should I make it a 1 crew vehicle with a rifle, and then give it reasonable cross country rate? Because I don't see an option to give a foot unit a special road speed.

How do you indicate the transport type of the commander? Or is the commander an abstracted addition to the unit, that is not tied to a specific piece of equipment?

I would need BFTB to create such a unit of course. But that wouldn't be a problem.

[Lieste]

I'll make a brief note of the possibilities later, I can 'see' the options and what I'd do, but I prefer to double check against the game, and I'm not able to fire up BFTB until later today.

[Lieste]

Ok, in BFTB, the bicycle 'vehicle' is a 'motorcycle' with a maximum speed of 20kph, and normal speed of 12kph on roads, and 9 and 6 cross country (as infantry), max gradient 20 degrees.

The Bicycle 'formation' has movement class bicycle, which seems to be 'foot' movement class with some modification (rather than wheeled), maximum speed 20kph, normal 12kph.

However... in testing I didn't see any significant difference in speed between the normal leg Bn and a Bicycle Fus Bn. So I want to run additional tests to see what is going on... might be a foot support unit slowing the whole column - but I didn't immediately see where my error was.

[springel]

So, I purchased BFTB this weekend, and I see how to build everything up.

It will still be a lot of work to get my 1940 units created.

Are there Estab files made by volunteers for 1940 with for instance French troops, because I think they might be a good starting point for the Dutch units. For my purpose they don't have to be perfect.

However, first I am going to get into this game again by playing the HTTR scenarios.

Following the list of small scenarios I was able to master the first few, sometimes after a few times, but 'The Devils Hill' is giving me a run for my money. I think I must get my men into the woods as fast as possible, seeing that most of them are armed with short range small arms, but the assault towards the woodline is costly, and when I give follow up attack commands, the AI tries to move a lot of units around the cover of the woods, where they are very vulnerable.

I think I have to manage them on a much smaller unit base, because in larger formations the AI wants to move along paths that I think are not advantageous  with the weapons.

But maybe my reasoning is wrong.

The nice thing is that you can try a lot of different approaches in a short time with these relatively small scenarios.

[Chief Rudiger]

ORIGINAL: springel

So, I purchased BFTB this weekend, and I see how to build everything up.

It will still be a lot of work to get my 1940 units created.

Are there Estab files made by volunteers for 1940 with for instance French troops, because I think they might be a good starting point for the Dutch units. For my purpose they don't have to be perfect.

See my 1941 Syria/Lebanon scenario - Merdjayoun, i've created (Vichy) French units, weapons and vehicles. While i'm no expert on the French Army, the sources i used said there was no difference between the organisation of colonial troops and the Metropolitan ones. The only advancements between 1939-40 and 41 were the widespread use of a newer rifle, made possible by the reduction on troop number following the armistace.

I can link you to the very detailed online sources if you like.

tm.asp?m=2585349

[springel]

Thanks Chief. I will take a look at it.

Unfortunately at work an emergency arose, so instead spending my holiday playing wargames and making scenarios, I am the next two weeks very busy for my boss.

On the bright side, this gives me time to let ideas sink a bit before I start working on it.