HTTR (mini-guide): And even more tips!

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


Now, let's take a look at setting up forward fire bases that are in the very midst of fighting.

For the next few posts, we will be looking at my desparate attempt (Allies) to set up a hasty defense of a crossing while large German forces move into the area to deprive me of same crossing.

Golf33 said avoid observation. Sometimes, you can do that by hiding behind a rise like I had previously demonstrated and sometimes you just got to find some woods and set up shop there.

(The screenshot shows another new HTTR feature using the mini-icon view for uncluttering the map. Use the '~' key.)

{Dave, did that make it into the documentation? I am looking at my keyboard reference and I don't see that there. Hmm...}

Below you will see two fire bases set up in the woods. For the most part, they are shielded from casual view. To achieve this mortar platoons were stripped from 12 separate battalions (meaning I gave them direct [D]efend orders). You will notice that the configuration of mortars gives me an oval of coverage about 9km by 6km. Each fire base, also has some light arty in the center.

Some additional points:

(1) As stated this is an active combat area, thus besides increasing my mortar coverage I have somewhat reduced my total risk of loosing arty/mortar support by splitting them.

(2) Also, by splitting them, the 75mm howitzers of each fire base can provide mutual support for the other fire base. The 81mm mortars don't really need this as they can practically fire point blank.

(3) The mortars also substantially add to the strength of the security perimeter around the arty units. Remember, that arty units will have a minimum range and therefore will not be able to lay down fire when they are at risk of being overrun. Mortars don't have that problem.

(4) You will note that the mortars are spreadout. This serves to help reduce the effect of counter battery fire if it happens. Additionally, the enemy if the casually stumble upon the position are less likely to know that they have found a major fire base.

MarkShot has attached this image:

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


Also, you will note that the fire bases security has not been left to lady luck. A couple of battalions have also taken up positions in and around the woods where they reside. However, these battalions are pulling double duty and that's why they are somewhat removed.

We'll discuss setting up a defense next time. We had better. I am hearing a lot of whispered commands coming out of the neighbooring woods and it doesn't sound like they're speaking English.


MarkShot has attached this image:

[Tzar007]

From Kevinugly:


I assume that the arty in HTTR WILL now follow orders unlike the truculent swines who manned the guns in RDOA. [:)]

[Tzar007]

From Golf33:

I assume that the arty in HTTR WILL now follow orders unlike the truculent swines who manned the guns in RDOA. [:)]

Yes they certainly do [:)] In HTTR, Bombard orders no longer incur orders delay. Also, when a unit has finished Bombarding and goes to Rest, this does not incur an orders delay either. Folks with real-life artillery experience will appreciate that this realistically models the ability of artillery to rapidly switch targets, and the instantaneous response of the gun crews to the command "Rest" from the GPO [:)].

Note that the trick MarkShot describes for rapidly resting artillery will not work in RDOA since it's artillery modelling is not as accurate as HTTR's.

There is also a brand-new "Fire Support" tab next to the unit info and status tabs, that shows the current status of every indirect-fire unit under the player's direct command. When you issue a bombard order you will see the status of that order in the tab. For example, if the unit cannot fire because friendly forces are in the target area, you will see "Friendlies in Way" on the Fire Spt tab under that unit. Similarly, if a rocket unit is reloading (takes quite a while for Nebelwerfer batteries as you can imagine) you will see "Reloading" on the tab. The Fire Spt tab also simplifies ammo tracking for artillery, since you can select units off the tab and see their ammo state right there; and you can even issue orders by selecting a unit off the Fire Spt tab and placing an order point on the map.

Regards
33

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


Steve,

As long as I have sucked you into this thread, I was wondering the other night ... does taking direct command of arty units add to the command load of HQ like other units or are arty units special?

Thanks.

Folks,

By the way, here is a look at that new Fire Support Tab which Steve mentioned. Ooh aah ...


MarkShot has attached this image:

[Tzar007]

From Arjuna:


Markshot,

Thanks for pointing out the omission in the Ref manual regarding the display of small icons. I've emailed Marc to see if it possible to get this in, but I'm not sure at this late stage. If not, we'll have to post an amendment on the forum. Heh, another reason to check the forum [:)].

[Tzar007]

From Arjuna:


Hi all,

I must say I am enjoying Markshot's tips. Many thanks Mark.

I would like to offer some alternate advice on the issue of centralising control of indirect fire assets. In smaller scenarios there is usually only a few arty/mor units, and so it's fine to take direct control of all of them. In larger scenarios where there are significant numbers of arty and mortar units I tend to take direct control of the arty units and leave the mortar units under command of their Bn HQs. I find this the best use for the mortar units for a number of reasons.

First and most importantly, their battalions need them and they will need them at short notice and usually when your attention is focussed elsewhere.

Second, the more arty units you have under direct command, the more work you have to do in managing them. In larger scenarios this can detract or divert your focus away from where it should be. In the Breakout from Joe's Bridge scenario, for instance 30th Corps has a plethora of arty units, not to mention mortar units. So I tend to only command directly the medium and a few of the field arty units - around six to ten units. I find that's a good number to handle. I will usually allocate three or four field how units to support the Irish Gds group's drive up the highway and one field how bn to each of the flanking infantry Bns. I then check the box on the tasks for the Irish Gds and the infantry Bns to ensure that these arty units only support them. In effect this ensures that their arty firepower is dedicated.

Everyone is different and one of HTTR's great strength is that it does provide alternate approaches to managing your forces. So I would recommend you experiment a little before settling on the best approach for you.

[Tzar007]

From VALENT PHILIPPE:


Thinks for all your answers [:D]. i study what you say in this forum. [:'(] .

phil

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


Yes, time for a disclaimer. [:)]

(1) The tips presented here (by me anyway) do not necessarily reflect the views of Panther or Matrix.

(2) The tips I offer seem to work for me as I win more than I loose. However, your actual mileage may vary.

(3) Past performance is no indication of future results.

Well, I think that covers every TV commercial cliche I can think of. [:)]

As with many games, there really is very little public discussion of how to best use the tools the game provides. I have to admit I am very excited about the Strategy Guide project and the prospect of the Australian War College opening their annals to the general public. [:)]

Now, if I can just get Matrix to ban the sale of the Strat Guide in Pennsylvania, I might actually have a glimmer of hope against Yakstock in an MP game. [:)]

---

Folks,

Stay tuned. I'll be back later to talk about when to detach mortars and when to leave them with their organic commands. My views may differ a bit from Dave's.

Debating game play techniques with the developer is a little like debating theology with your maker. I hope I am not going to get myself cast down into the fiery pit for this. [:)]

---

All clowning aside, I'll be back later with some more tips. In the meantime, RDOA veterans please jump in here and give us some fresh meat to chew on. Thanks.

[Tzar007]

From VALENT PHILIPPE:


mARKSHOT?
i am sorry i don't understand the problem! [&:] its with me? can you explain please where is the trouble? i want some explain with the game , only!
[:(] sorry .thinks à + tard phil

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


Phil,

I am not sure that I fully understand your last post.

Are you asking why no one has responded to your Juggernaut thread? If so, I am not sure why.

I am checking my notes. I do make notes about the scenarios I play. It appears that I never played that one. If I had RDOA loaded, I would give you some thoughts on it. However, I really don't have the time to reload at the moment. I am sorry.

JeF,

Are there any AARs for that scenario available?

[Tzar007]

From JeF:

JeF,
Are there any AARs for that scenario available?

None that I know.

[The rest of this post has been moved here on request]

[Tzar007]

From Golf33:

... does taking direct command of arty units add to the command load of HQ like other units or are arty units special?

Yes, it does. In the British system (and most armies use something similar) command of artillery assets is separated into various levels. For example, the Division artillery staff commands three field artillery regiments (which it might even hand down to the brigades to command), while the Corps artillery staff commands two or three medium artillery regiments and often a couple of heavy artillery batteries. When you take direct command of all your artillery assets, you effectively place them all under command of Corps HQ - which then has to do extra work to coordinate them all, which would normally be handled at Division level.

On the plus side, in most cases the added load is only quite small.

There is also a way around it, especially in scenarios featuring the massed artillery of XXX Corps. By selecting a group of artillery units and issuing a Bombard order, the most senior unit of the group becomes the 'commander' and the others will then fire on Bombard orders issued to that unit. You will also only see the 'commander' unit in the Fire Spt tab. This reduces your HQ command load, simplifies the management of Bombard tasks for you, and brings the advantage of easy massing of artillery! Remember, a single round from 72 guns is far more effective than 72 rounds from a single gun.

By the way, here is a look at that new Fire Support Tab which Steve mentioned. Ooh aah[:)] ...

Ooh aah indeed [:)]

Regards
33

[Tzar007]

From Golf33:

Second, the more arty units you have under direct command, the more work you have to do in managing them. In larger scenarios this can detract or divert your focus away from where it should be. In the Breakout from Joe's Bridge scenario, for instance 30th Corps has a plethora of arty units, not to mention mortar units. So I tend to only command directly the medium and a few of the field arty units - around six to ten units. I find that's a good number to handle. I will usually allocate three or four field how units to support the Irish Gds group's drive up the highway and one field how bn to each of the flanking infantry Bns. I then check the box on the tasks for the Irish Gds and the infantry Bns to ensure that these arty units only support them. In effect this ensures that their arty firepower is dedicated.

In this scenario, you start with four medium and five field regiments under command of XXX Corps HQ, plus another two field regiments (one split into three batteries) under command of Guards Armoured Div HQ. Each infantry battalion also has at least one mortar platoon. If you want to control the artillery directly, a good way to do it is to create two groups of two medium regiments each, another group of three field regiments, one of two field regiments, keep the entire Guards field regiment as a single unit, and group the three Guards field batteries together. This gives you six fire units with a variety of ranges and strengths.

Alternatively, you could group the mediums either all together or in two groups of two, group the XXX Corps field regiments in a single group of three and allocate the remaining two to the infantry brigade or even its battalions, while either keeping the Guards arty under your direct command or allocating it to the various subordinate formations of that division. As Arjuna points out, checking the "Arty Direct Support Only" box when giving an order to a unit that has artillery under command, will prevent that artillery unit firing at targets that are not of interest to the commanding formation. Just remember that when placing artillery under command of a formation you will incur the full orders delay, both for the formation HQ and for the arty unit. During this time you can still give Bombard orders directly to the arty unit, and it will respond quickly, but it then stops being under command of the manoeuvre unit.

Regards
33

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


Ah, we are having a great discourse about arty and mortars.

Since the purpose of this thread is to teach the basics to new players and those less familiar with ground warfare concepts, I think I will back track briefly. (I didn't know any of this stuff a few years ago ...).

Okay, so, why have Dave, Steve, and myself put so much focus on talking about artillery as opposed to say your recon platoon of Stuarts (light tanks)? Simply put, arty plays a very critical role in the game and on the battlefield for the following three reasons:

(1) It represents a very significant portion of your total fire power which you can bring to bare.

(2) Arty is an indirect fire (meaning that you need not have visual contact with the enemy) weapon system. (Of course, there will be spotters and communications to the batteries.) As such, when it is used correctly, it can apply fire power to the enemy without receiving return fire itself. The same is no true of other units.

(3) Arty can move the focus of its fire power 15km or more in a matter of minutes. If you try to move the fire power you can apply with your armor, it can take anywhere from a few hours to more than a day depending on the situation.

So, learning how to effectively use your arty is going to be one of the most important steps you are going to take towards becoming an effective player.

---

So, if you take direct control, you will need to:

(1) Position it.

(2) Secure it.

(3) Manage the rate of ammo consumption.

(4) Be in contact with the enemy so that the guns have something shoot at.

---

Let's look at #4 immediately above for a second. It is saying that arty is a resource like petroleum. Meaning it needs to be integrated into a plan. On it's own, it is not going to give you a victory. Now, you can be in contact with the enemy by having two brigades making an assault. But also keep in mind the smallest and weakest and most understrength unit in the game is sufficient to be in contact with the enemy.

Thus, a single company can halt or delay major enemy movements along a road if rather than stopping the enemy with brute force direct fire, it has your on-call arty apply massive indirect fire to the enemy.

Corollary to this is the importance of not being observed. That's why Steve made the point in thread of not having the enemy spot your guns. That's why when you identify a location to FUP, if even 12 guys who have bailed out of their Panthers see you there, they can ruin your whole day.

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


I will tell you that I almost always dettach my arty (I don't mean mortars here) and I never group it like Dave and Steve have discussed here.

But let me give you some tips on how arty behaves when grouped with other units which is quite different.

If you group three infantry companies together and tell them to move from Point A to Point B, then after a certain period of time, you will find your three companies in the vicinity of Point B.

But that is not the way arty moves when given a [M]ove or [D]efend order and grouped with other units.

If I take three arty units (call them U1, U2, and U3) and order them to move from Point A to Point B, here is what happens. U1 will move to the vicinity of Point B. U2 and U3 will make sure that they are in bombard range of Point B, then stop and deploy. This is good for providing fire support for U1 during the move, but doesn't really help you position U2 and U3 when Point B is your fire base.

So, even if you plan to group your arty as suggested, you are going to have to give them individual [M]ove or [D]efend orders to get them to the fire base.

Since you are going to have to move arty units individually when you decide to relocate a fire base, they are not going to benefit from bounding overwatch and security forces like other groups of moving units. Thus, you will have to be extra careful that you are moving them along a secure route that is not under enemy observation.

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


Lest you think that with so many units on the map and a handful of arty units on the map that it's no big deal if they are spotted, be advised that your arty units are an arty magnet for the enemy's AI gunners. [:)]

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


Alright, tomorrow, I will get back on to the mortar thing. [:)]

Remember if you got arty questions ask them here to Steve. In his former life before being a game developer he was a gunner.

[Tzar007]

From Mr.Frag:


Mark, does drag selecting with a move order accomplish what you suggest or does it turn them into a command structure and cause them to sub deploy as you have pointed out ... just wondering if there is some alternative to individual orders as some scenarios had rather insane numbers of units in the Arty catagory [X(]

[Tzar007]

From MarkShot:


Mr. Frag,

Any manner of multiple selection of units followed by issuance of an order makes them one force.

I guess you must be of those half empty people and me one of those half full people. You can never have too much arty. [:)]

In terms of moving arty, I don't find that even when you take direct command you do too much moving. The reasons being:

(1) You tend to try to establish a fire base which will serve your needs throughout the entire battle. In some cases, you may need to make a single move after establishing the first fire base. I cannot recall a scenario where I needed to position arty units more than twice. The map just isn't that big and these guys have some reach.

(2) When they are moving and deploying, they ain't doing what they were made for which is laying down fire on targets.

(3) If they move, then they restart the whole process of deploying -> diggin in -> entrenching. As said before, it's best that the enemy doesn't have them under observation or run across them. However, if the enemy should find them, they are much better off being entrenched than dug-in. The less you move them, the more likely they are to reach that state.