Battle computers (suggestion)

[Black Knight]

First off, I love ToS. To me, one of the greatest strenghts of ToS is its titan creation. The possibilities are endless and designing, testing and improving each of your own creations is an incredibly satisfying experience. There are titans with all possible combinations of weapons, optional systems (DCS, shields, ECM, etc.) and amor distributions, and generally each of those titans is useful in different situations.

While browsing through the titan database, I noticed one thing that bothers me though: Battle computers. To be precise, once titans reach a certain size (medium), there's absolutely no incentive at all to install anything worse than the BC6. It's a no-brainer, really.

This is why I'd love to see a major change in how BCs are handled. What I suggest is that each BC should offer a special bonus, while the differences in To-Hit bonus between BCs are toned down. It could look something like this:

Hit-Mod Special
BC1 +10 None
BC2 +11 Improved titan handling
BC3 +12 Improves CC weapon accuracy
BC4 +13 Reduces movement speed penalty (target & self)
BC5 +14 Increases chance to score internal damage
BC6 +15 Reduces range hit penalty (should be most useful at long range and useless at short)

Imagine the possibilities. BC1 is for the sake of a quick lock-on and not suffering the harsh manual targeting penalty. BC2 is either a "rookie computer" or serves to balance out the negative handling of a chassis. BC3 certainly would be a must-have for all those close combat types. BC4 is useful when rushing or dealing with fast-moving enemies. BC5 would be devastating with meson guns or high-damage weapons like AC20 or tesla bolt. And finally, BC6 is the "sniper scope" for medium - long range, but you would want to use another BC on close to short range titans.

What do you think about it?

[LarkinVB]

Interesting suggestion. I agree that some types of equipment are not that usefull and/or a bit unbalanced.

I don't want to make changes which force a redesign of titans and - more important - do not want to make big changes at this state of the game. Therefore I can only think of minor balance changes to the computer systems.

Currently I have taken a break from coding for TOS but this might change.

[Black Knight]

I don't want to make changes which force a redesign of titans ...

Well, none of the titans in the database would really suffer from those changes. Many of them would end up with a computer that isn't ideally suited for them, but since most titans above 70 tons have the BC6 installed anyway, the "redesign" would be limited to installing a "smaller" computer and filling out the free weight with additional armour or an upgrade to flares/life support, etc.

... and - more important - do not want to make big changes at this state of the game. Therefore I can only think of minor balance changes to the computer systems.

Of course, I understand that completely. What you see fit depends entirely on your vision of the game. [;)]

It's just that I read the latest changelog (haven't tried that version yet) and new features like cloning and bank credits as well as some of the balance changes (movement time changes, etc.) immediately got my attention.

Anyway, when it comes to balance changes a beta is always a good idea. I'm sure gamers like me would gladly test anything that you come up with. [;)]

[LarkinVB]

I will think about it. There are more systems which are underused but which can't be rebalanced by changing weight/slots. Weight/slots are a no go as I don't want to mess with existing titan designs.

Since I plan to add a new flag for tcc.cfg to disable ambient sound streaming (it can be buggy under vista as it seems), it is likely that there will be a new beta. This may include some equipment balance changes.

Btw. I strongly suggest using the 1.2.2 beta, it is superior to 1.2.1.

[Thorgrim]

The current format of the BCs is consistent IMO, with the increasing size and weight corresponding to increasing targeting bonuses. Not sure the proposed bonuses justify the different sizes and weights.

[LarkinVB]

I was thinking about reducing the to hit spread 0-15% and adding some tertiary effect. Secondary effect is target locking time.

[Black Knight]

Not sure the proposed bonuses justify the different sizes and weights.

Well, I didn't propose any actual numbers for the special bonuses, because balancing such things is quite tricky indeed. The aim would be to make every battle computer a viable option without really changing the overall game balance. The bonuses shouldn't be huge anyway, only large enough to offer some variety and interesting design choices.

Btw, thanks Larkin for 1.2.2, I really like it! Keep up the good work! [;)]

[Ghstbear]

I sometimes find a better pilot can reduce his targeting computer and use the added weight to some sort of advantage. Of course, Assault titans can use extra weight less than mediums titans.

[LarkinVB]

Well, I didn't propose any actual numbers for the special bonuses, because balancing such things is quite tricky indeed. The aim would be to make every battle computer a viable option without really changing the overall game balance.

This would change the current design rule that each advanced equipment is superior in all aspects except weight/slots/cost. I don't want to change that.

I tweaked battle computer modifiers with b58 and added small bonus for close combat. Tradeoff for bonus against weight/slot is more balanced now. Also increased effectiveness of the stronger flares and life supports and added +5% to all damage control systems. 

[Thorgrim]

Will you also include the fixed titan database in the 1.2.2 patch?
I think it should be included, since the patch needs the titans to be fixed. It'd save players the trouble to look for the fixed database, or doing it themselves.

[LarkinVB]

ORIGINAL: Thorgrim

Will you also include the fixed titan database in the 1.2.2 patch?
I think it should be included, since the patch needs the titans to be fixed. It'd save players the trouble to look for the fixed database, or doing it themselves.

This will overwrite any existing database, erasing own designs. I think about adding the tmerge clean/fix function at startup of tcc.exe or to the factory (automatically, just wrinting to log if something is fixed). This will only fix the databse though and old squad/mission titans will still be slower. I can live with this.

[Thorgrim]

I think it would be worth the cost, but maybe it's just me. There could be a warning with the patch, to backup own designs.
It's a good idea to add the functionality, but a bit gimmicky.

[LarkinVB]

ORIGINAL: Thorgrim

I think it would be worth the cost, but maybe it's just me. There could be a warning with the patch, to backup own designs.
It's a good idea to add the functionality, but a bit gimmicky.

Perhaps you are right. Do you know how to use the nsis or another installer system ? I'm incredible lazy and reluctant to learn them. This is the main reason the patch isn't released with installer yet.

[Thorgrim]

Nope, sorry. I think there are some installers that don't allow patching, because of some disk space saving ability - you have to keep the msi in the hdd. I don't think Matrix uses such installers though.

[Thorgrim]

ORIGINAL: LarkinVB

Well, I didn't propose any actual numbers for the special bonuses, because balancing such things is quite tricky indeed. The aim would be to make every battle computer a viable option without really changing the overall game balance.

This would change the current design rule that each advanced equipment is superior in all aspects except weight/slots/cost. I don't want to change that.

[/quote]

In fact, BCs do have other stats, they just are overlooked mostly. For example, BC1 costs 2k, BC6 25k! 12.5x more. Yes, not that money is much of an issue most of the time.
Also, BC6 does have better threat level assessment than BC1. Again, usually not the most useful thing.
Anyways, just pointing out that there could be other ways of making the distinction more pronounced.

I tweaked battle computer modifiers with b58 and added small bonus for close combat. Tradeoff for bonus against weight/slot is more balanced now. Also increased effectiveness of the stronger flares and life supports and added +5% to all damage control systems. 

Were these changes added to the changelog?
DCS had already been changed in one of the betas, point 63; LS, was that change 116 from a previous beta? And flares?

[LarkinVB]

ORIGINAL: Thorgrim

I tweaked battle computer modifiers with b58 and added small bonus for close combat. Tradeoff for bonus against weight/slot is more balanced now. Also increased effectiveness of the stronger flares and life supports and added +5% to all damage control systems. 

Were these changes added to the changelog?
DCS had already been changed in one of the betas, point 63; LS, was that change 116 from a previous beta? And flares?

63. shows the final DCS changes. LS is 116. and flares 74. These are total changes of all betas regarding this equipment.

[Thorgrim]

Ok, thanks. It's not intuitive retro-reading the changelog when trying new betas, but for release it is better.
 
 

Anyways, just pointing out that there could be other ways of making the distinction more pronounced.

 
Like a defensive bonus for the accuracy of threat level. Better yet, a to-hit bonus to attackers, that increases with the inaccuracy of threat level (the higher the difference, the higher the bonus); maybe only the non-detected attackers would get that bonus. [you're trying to evade a guy and oops, you just gave your flank to the other guy you didn't spot...]

[Stafroty]

How bout battle computer to have memory so it can remember earlier scans from other scanned titans.

BC 1 can remember 1 scanned titan.
BC 2 can remember 2 different titans
BC 3 can remember 3 different titans
.. and BC 6 can remember 6 different titan scan results.

so with BC 1 u have always to scan titan when u change target and with BC6 u can store 6 titans in memory.

[LordSteel]

An interesting idea, Stafroty. Only thing I can say about it is that I rarely go back and pull up "remembered" scans on other titans. I normally focus fire until one titan is down and out.