Desperatly missed weapon for WS

[LarkinVB]

Since I need a break and want to do something for a change I'm ready to add one weapon for WS which will add to the game, will fit into the overall balance and is not that hard on special effects.

Is there something which should be in and isn't ?
Do need heavy/assault a close combat weapon ?
Is there the need for a hex damaging weapon which will hit the target hard and does spray damage on bystanders ?
I've always thought of a mine launcher but it would make the game even harder for the attacker.
Should the energy crew get another reason for its skill and get an EMP pulser which can handicap internal electronic components ?
Or should I just let it stay the way it is cause any new weapon might unbalance the game ?

Your input is needed but think twice what you do propose. It should add to the game in a reasonable way.

[Lyhrrus]

My personal vote, SRM12 or NM21. >=D j/k, even though I love missiles. Maybe "heavy hitter missiles" that work withing a 5 hex range, doing 3 points of damage per missile, but also explode for more on ammo explosions. (Works on principle of stuffing more explosives into a small missile, sacrificing range.) So... HHM5 or HHM6?
For a heavy/assault CC weapon, you could do something like "Ratchet wheels", pretty much spinning saw blades that have pinpoint accuracy. Maybe 15 damage, +10 to hit, 2-3 slots? Could also have possibility to launch one hex, but then you lose them.
I think a heavy frag cannon could be in order as well, which sort of works like a missile launcher between SRM and LRM. (Cannons need another toy! Energy has too many already!) So, in a direct hex hit, it could do 1x9 damage randomly scattered, with 1x6 and 1x3 damage in surrounding hexes, or if limited to 1 hex radius, then 1x10 damage and then 1x5 damage. Range: 3-15, slots 5+1 per ammo, -5 or -10 to hit (frag doesn't need to hit, just get close <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> ). Of course it's not a dueling weapon, but an awesome team support weapon against swarms that stick together.
Mine launcher? Nice idea but ugh. Charging a sniping titan is hard enough as it is, especially if they have support in the way of CC titans. There could be the idea though of having the option to place a mine or launch it, with launching having a heavy -accuracy, meaning if you miss, it randomly places it within 1 hex (so possibility of 7 hexes). Then, it would be a proximity mine, set off by anyone within 1 hex (% chance of detonation, low for 1 hex away, high for directly on top). Even so, it would make charging near impossible and the death of multiple CC titans. Anyway, looks like a nightmare to code.
Energy? Hmm... although I'm inclined to say that energy is already fleshed out fairly well, an EMP laser sounds interesting. However, I believe that the internal damage ability should be reserved for cannons, making them that more special, as E-weaopns have a nice variety of side effects already. (NB, BRG, flamer). Maybe a weapon that solely targets shield and has a % chance to disable shields that works like the NB. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Jath]

How about a sandblaster? On a hit, does one damage to every body part (except maybe CBT or CT depending on which way the target is facing). Or maybe two to most parts, but one to head and LowT.

It should probably be a cannon, since there are such a variety of interesting energy weapons already. Short range of course.

[rosary]

The following is just a reply to Larkin and Not Official Warring Suns Info:


Background info: reversing the polarity of the shield generator will result in an overload to the system sending a proportional Electromagnetic pulse .33 km in all directions (range 0). Shield energy reserves will be completely depleted and require normal shield recharging and a successful repair before another EMP could be used.

Range: 0
Chance to succeed: DCS skill percentage.

Chance to damage electronics of enemy(or allies) in the hex could be 5%*(dcs#+Shield#)


For example: You successful discharge the energy of your shield forming an EMP. You are using dcs 2 with Shield 3. Chance to damage the enemies electronics becomes 25%. If you subtract the enemy shield# this becomes 19%.


Otherwise, I'm against anything that has a delayed effect such as mines. i prefer to pull the trigger and see instant resulting failure/success.

Thats just my unofficial input.

[Hetz(er)]

Being known as one of the leading proponents of subtlety in ToS/WS my suggestion is to add one small thing from MechWarrior the self destruct button.

I talked this over with Rosary once upon a time. I had been talking about a 1 space,1 shot weapon to fill up that akward hole in your otherwise perfect Titan. It should do fairly major damage if it hits but also have a heavy recoil penalty so that firing it would be a last resort (kind of like having a derringer in your boot, handy, but you really don't want to depend upon it).

The discussion turned to engine explosions and rosary mentioned that he'd designed a recon to explode more often than usual. His suggestion (see, I really am innocent) was to fill up that one space with a bomb to trigger an engine explosion (I really like rosary, he gives me something to shoot for).

In duels the self-destruct (or even just enhanced chance of engine explosion) would not be a major factor. In team play the chance that someone could go boom should make for a more tactical approach than merely trying to close as fast as possible so we can bash each other better.

I don't know if this count's as one idea or two but there's my two cents worth of ideas <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[rosary]

Originally posted by Hetz:
Being known as one of the leading proponents of subtlety in ToS/WS my suggestion is to add one small thing from MechWarrior the self destruct button.

I talked this over with Rosary once upon a time. I had been talking about a 1 space,1 shot weapon to fill up that akward hole in your otherwise perfect Titan. It should do fairly major damage if it hits but also have a heavy recoil penalty so that firing it would be a last resort (kind of like having a derringer in your boot, handy, but you really don't want to depend upon it).

The discussion turned to engine explosions and rosary mentioned that he'd designed a recon to explode more often than usual. His suggestion (see, I really am innocent) was to fill up that one space with a bomb to trigger an engine explosion (I really like rosary, he gives me something to shoot for).

In duels the self-destruct (or even just enhanced chance of engine explosion) would not be a major factor. In team play the chance that someone could go boom should make for a more tactical approach than merely trying to close as fast as possible so we can bash each other better.

I don't know if this count's as one idea or two but there's my two cents worth of ideas <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

---

To cause an explosion you'll need to raise your heat quickly to explosive temps before shutting down. By the way, If I said it was a recon I'm sorry. Its not a recon. It was a different weight class. Also, I don't think it worked that well after all. It also relied on missed ammo explosion skill checks to help raise its heat to those highly explosive levels.

[tarendelcymir]

Let me put in my 2 cents, too. To me, one of the best things about a new game in a series (Such as MechWarrior, for example) is the addition of new weapons, equipment, etc. It gives that much more to a game you already know you're going to love. As far as I'm concerned, I don't really care what exactly the new weapon or weapons in ToS:WS is, but I very definitely vote for the addition of something. I think it'll bring a lot more excitement to the game, especially since it'll be something you can't get in the free game.

[tarendelcymir]

By the way, I'm all for the idea of a self-destruct button on titans. In that last game with Larkin and I vs. Bernd and Lyhrrus, for instance, one of them might've changed the outcome of things. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[jmikkone]

Two things that really should be in : The self-destruct button (with a suitable timeout so that the jock may eject first) and a possibility to eject ammo before they explode due to heat.

A CC weapon for Assaults and Heavies could be useful.. Maybe a Power Grip? You could grab another titan's limbs and squeeze the living daylights out of it. Say, 3pts of squeeze damage per second? To change the affected body part you'd have to grab again. Your enemy wouldn't be able to use that limb for as long as you have the grip. 3 slots and 10 tons? Maybe other weapons should also gain a small benefit in their CtH rating since you're practically holding your target still.

How about utilizing the Guided Missiles skill for another type of weapon, the Short Range Guided Missile? Quite similar to SRM's, but guided and heavy-hitting. Say, 4pts of damage per missile, with rack sizes 3/5/7. +10% toHit, range around 9, 2/3/4 slots plus ammo. Lots of heat and slow recycle time.

Since cannons generally lack specials (except Mesons), how about a Parasite Cannon? Quite long range and no damage on impact, but each hit would reduce target's PU output by one, maybe not all the way to zero PU but, say, to 33% of original? Combined with engine damage.. Ouch. Low ammo count, maybe 3 slots and 8 tons for the weapon itself. Shields could be helpful against. If reducing PU's is too unbalancing, then it could also work by increasing BMT, say +3sec BMT per hit. In the same line of thought, would yet heavier version of HMG be too unbalancing?

[Lyhrrus]

What's the point of a suicide button if you're going to kill a jock you've worked on for a long time? <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Only useful in tournament teams, team duels and multiplayer duels.

[makodan]

I've also wanted the self-destruct addition for a while; it would definitely add to the game, but it might throw team fights off with everyone having one main titan and a bunch of suicide runners. But how cool would that be.
Second choice: nuclear grenade launcher (a really big one). The damage would be similar to when a titan explodes causing an area damage effect, but not as heavy. Heavy weapon a very few shots, but you almost always hit someone. It would be cool if it lit forests on fire, and you could shoot it into areas you can't see. just a thought.

[Thorgrim]

I don't think the game needs more weapons. The reason, it's been really hard to balance the existing ones, to add a new one would surely delay the release.

Besides, all weapon types already have a nice variety.
There are only a couple CCs, yes, but adding a new one would probably make you dismiss one of the existing ones as their use isn't exactly a versatile one. Only addition I could see was the Power Claw, which would work like a meson (like Wolverine's claws).
Energy already has a large variety of special effects, and that's where they excel at. I don't see how they could be enhanced. There is the E.M. Pulser, yes, with the advantage that it is already thought out and in the factory help file <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Could be nice. But to overload shields we already have the TB as I already said in another thread, which is much more efficient at that.
Cannons, leave them as they are. Having specials in cannons is widening the gap between them and energy IMO. There was talk about the shotgun, the artill pieces, grenades,... not worth the effort IMO, as some of those are already covered by other weapons (SRMs work like a shotgun for example).
Unguided missiles, there's enough variety as it is. Maybe increasing the chance for crits in internal hits for SRMs as I already suggested to Larkin, but not much else.
Guided missiles, Larkin already knows my opinion on them, they should *all* hit on a successful roll as they're guided, ECM would reduce to hit and flares would reduce number of missiles that hit. That way ECM and flares wouldn't overlap in effect.

So, in short, instead of adding new weapons I'd go for changing some of the existing ones, which would probably have the same 'new weapon in sequel' effect on players.
But as always, this is just MO.

[Thorgrim]

Forgot the self-destruct button <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> I'm totally against it, by the very same reasons pointed out in this thread. It'd turn some jocks into expendable fodder and ruin team games. Let's not forget the AI would use it too. Even with a delay to allow ejects, the jock would eject *into* the titan hex, so he should die anyways from the explosion. Explosions have a radius of effect of 2 hexes, so even if ejects would send jocks to the adjacent hex, they'd still be killed. So unless you want eject pods to have enough propellant to take you 1 klick or more in a few secs, you're always dead.

[LarkinVB]

On self destruct. I'm thinking of adding the choice for either regular or better or if your D.C.S and survival skill exceed 60%. This will trigger the following setup : The jock is shutting of the heat reg and runs the engine in overdrive mode ( same heat increase as if it was damaged heavily ). This will need a successfull but secret skill check which is taken at the moment the jock actually ejects ( whole action does take twice normal eject time ). From this moment on the titan will produce heat without reduction, resulting in an engine explosion at 300C (if the check was successfull). So there is A) no abuse by creating rookie bombs, B) no guaranteed success and C) a nice time bomb NOBODY will know when/if it will go off.

Oppinions ?

[Thorgrim]

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:
On self destruct. I'm thinking of adding the choice for either regular or better or if your D.C.S and survival skill exceed 60%. This will trigger the following setup : The jock is shutting of the heat reg and runs the engine in overdrive mode ( same heat increase as if it was damaged heavily ). This will need a successfull but secret skill check which is taken at the moment the jock actually ejects ( whole action does take twice normal eject time ). From this moment on the titan will produce heat without reduction, resulting in an engine explosion at 300C (if the check was successfull). So there is A) no abuse by creating rookie bombs, B) no guaranteed success and C) a nice time bomb NOBODY will know when/if it will go off.

Oppinions ?

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Didn't get the 1st part. Are you proposing to implement *either* the normal/regular version *or* the dcs/survival version? The rest of the post refers to what version?
I don't think this stops bombs, it just makes them less effective. I don't think this should be implemented for the arena setting. The military setting, maybe, but just as long as the jock dies - it *should* be the ultimate sacrifice. And only if money actually means something in WS, during the *whole* campaign - recruting new jocks should have some effect on your budget.

[LarkinVB]

I'm not sure which requirements ( or both ) to use. I do agree with you that it might encourages playing bomb so it will only be allowed for non random jocks. I don't think death is automatic, just will make the eject skill harder.

[Grah31]

I'm generally against self-destruct, but maybe could live with it if it wasn't a certainty. Say you initiate self-destruct and then the program determines whether the jock actually hits the switch OR just ejects normally. Maybe it's a random value determined at jock inception or maybe variable depending on certain criteria. He's nearly dead anyway <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> +20%, he's surrounded (and probably wouldn't get away if ejecting normally) +10%, it's 120th second of the battle, -loads% - he was obviously purchased as a bomb and aint going to play that game <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . You could add 5% for each minute of the battle. Also, check how his team is doing - everyone ok? - <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> I'm not dying here for no reason - eject!

[LarkinVB]

If use is limited for self created jocks which must be at least of a cerain level/skill I don't think it will be missused. But it can give a certain thrill to an already desperate situation.

[Marga]

Concerning new weapons for ToS-WS, here are some design-suggestions I had in mind long ago:

1)
SNIPER CANNON (weapon type: cannon)
Special effect: +20% bonus on to hit for called shots
------------
Weight 5.5
Range {1,13}
Ammo 20
Heat 10.0
Number of projectiles: 1
Damage 5
Weapon slots 2
Ammo slots 1
Recycle 18
To hit bonus 0%
Cost 4500$

SNIPER GUN (weapon type: energy)
Special effect: +30% bonus on to hit for called shots
---------
Weight 4.5
Range {1,11}
Ammo 0
Heat 18.0
Number of projectiles: 1
Damage 3
Weapon slots 3
Ammo slots 0
Recycle 10
To hit bonus 0%
Cost 6000$
---------


PETRA GUN
---------
Special effect: double muzzle cannnon with haevy bore does 2 shots of 15 points damage (counted as one shot with 30 points damage).
Drawback: The heavy recoil of this weapon forces the JOCK to make a piloting skill roll after firing the PETRA GUN.
---------
Weight 11.5
Range {0,7}
Ammo 9
Heat 30.0
Number of projectiles: 1
Damage 30
Weapon slots 5
Ammo slots 1
Recycle 28
To hit bonus 0%
Cost 16000$
---------


SMART MISSILE
-------------
Like the SRMs, but they are seaking for the radiation of the engine, thus only hitting the location the engine is build in...
Drawback: The smart missile is distracted by Flares the same way as GMs are, this will let the Jocks <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> "love" <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> their flares if an enemy has SMART MISSILES

[PrinceCorrin]

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:
On self destruct. I'm thinking of adding the choice for either regular or better or if your D.C.S and survival skill exceed 60%. This will trigger the following setup : The jock is shutting of the heat reg and runs the engine in overdrive mode ( same heat increase as if it was damaged heavily ). This will need a successfull but secret skill check which is taken at the moment the jock actually ejects ( whole action does take twice normal eject time ). From this moment on the titan will produce heat without reduction, resulting in an engine explosion at 300C (if the check was successfull). So there is A) no abuse by creating rookie bombs, B) no guaranteed success and C) a nice time bomb NOBODY will know when/if it will go off.

Oppinions ?

---

I was against self destruct because of it's abusive potential, but this seems to be an effective and altogether impressive solution to that problem. I like the fact that it will be unavailable in random battles, making the use of regular teams in Network games far more likely.